AnakinJoe

Great point. But JayWalker also mentioned how this could be an attempt to counter Sund saying that "he will match any offer". If Smith's camp suggest that there is a chance that he will walk, then that may encourage a team to make him a solid offer. But the reality is that this above average group of RFAs got hosed by teams interested in the '09 & '10 UFA class as well as legit superstars like Brand & Baron (and excellent role players like Maggette and Camby). Hawks weren't the only ones who gambled and seemingly won. So did Philly with Iggy, Charlotte with Okafor and Chicago with Deng & Gordon. Somewhere, Kevin Martin and Al Jefferson are doing cart-wheels that they signed their extensions last summer.

Quote: Let's for a moment say it's true. I believe that ASG would promise Smoove that Woody will be gone after Feb. Since JJ clearly wanted Woody to come back are you saying thatthe ASG has decided to cater to Smith and ignore JJ?

Quote: I like Al Horford a lot, he plays with passion and will probably be a great leader one day. but, why do people believe he is or will be a better PF than Smoove. He had a great rookie season, but he didn't dominate on the court. he's a hustler, he out works his opponents. all that being said i don't see him EVER being the offensive, defensive, or playmaking threat Smoove is at PF. the only thing he will EVER do better than Smoove is rebound. it might just be me, but i think many of you over value horford and his potential and undervalue smoove and his potential. please give me some reasons why many of you think the way you do on this issue. For me, it's a simple issue of Horford is a proven winner. And everything that he did last season showed (again) that he is a winner. I don't know that Smith is a winner. I don't know that he has won at any level, high school or AAU. I do know Horford won 2 consecutive NCAA championships. It was Horford who played well in Boston during the playoffs (and not just at home). It was Horford who tried to motivate the team with the showing of the "When We Were Kings" video. And it was Horford who gave effort every minute of every game and was one of the few rookies in years to come within a hair of a 10/10 year. Since I'm more interested in a winning team than having a superstar on my team, I'd choose Horford each and every time. His potential of 16 & 12 may not match Smith's potential, but I liken it to Antawn Jamison vs. T-Mac. T-Mac will almost always look better but I'm guessing that Jamison will enjoy FAR more team success than T-Mac. And, I'm more confident that Horford will fulfill his potential than I am that Smith will reach his optimal level. The fact that there is even a debate about who to build around, when Horford has played 80 NBA games and Smith 300 is another indication of Horford's impact on this roster and Smith still trying to fulfill his potential.

Quote: Anakin, it's a good point. Chris Paul just did it. It's risky, but like I say in the latest blog installment over on THHB, it's the route JT took in 2003, but it took until September to get there. The money you mention doesn't need to be that high, however, even on a shorter term contract. True, make it somewhere between $35M-$40M. I just think a 3 year deal makes sense.

Nuggets can use it, but it would put them over the luxury tax again. Wasn't the the whole point of dumping Cambyh, to save around $15M? Plus, the trade exemption can only be used once, it's not a chip that maintains it's value after a trade. We can't trade Bibby for the Denver exemption and then turn around and pair it with Smith's BYC for some All-Star.

I suggested it a few months ago, sign Smith to a 3/$45M deal. It gives the Hawks a chance to see if he is truly going to become the "sure-fire superstar" many have suggested is almost guaranteed to happen (for the "he's only 22 crowd"). And it gives Smith an opportunity to get another free agent offer much sooner than later. If he blows up, the Hawks still retain his Bird rights, meaning that we still have an advantage to re-sign him. And if he doesn't fulfill his potential (will they be saying "he's only 25"?), then we aren't tied down to a long-term and lucrative deal. I still think this is the best win-win scenario for both parties.

Quote: Interesting scenario... I don't think that you can combine a player with a trade exemption, right? Plus, where did this $10M Trade Exemption come from?

Quote: Is Iggy getting wined and dined? Is there something they are not hearing from Josh that makes them open up the checkbook? It can't be a lack of athleticism, thats for sure. Is it just poor luck? Look at where the money has gone... Elton Brand. Baron Davis. Corey Maggette. Smith was competing against some tough competition and he lost out. But so did all of the other RFAs.

Quote: DeAndre Jordan, Chris Kaman and now DeAndre Jordan. The clips have big men the Hawks could use right now. I only wish Sund would have used a future second on Jordan or Camby. Don't get it twisted, Camby was traded for like $15M in luxury cap relief, not for a 2nd rounder. And because we couldn't absorb Camby's salary below the salary cap, we couldn't make that deal. Jordan is another story.

Looks like a good deal for both teams. I think this gets Denver below the luxury tax while Clippers get a big man who won't require many offensive touches and should allow Thornton, Baron and Eric Gordon/Mobley to be the team's offensive forces. Sund needs to use the contracts signed last summer by Kevin Martin and Al Jefferson to get the Smith contract signed and sealed. I say 5/$60M guaranteed with plenty of team-related bonuses that can add another $10-$15M to the total value of the deal.

I'm pretty sure that he falls under the same rules as Smith and Childress in terms of his contract not counting toward the cap. I believe I read that the contract he signed to play in Spain includes an NBA out-clause each year. So as long as we offer him a contract worth walking away from his European one, he'll be able to leave the Spanish team. With that said, I think the chances that we offer him a $4M+ annual contract is fairly remote.

Quote: NOBODY has yelled at Woody in frustration from the stands any more than I have. I have been frustrated by his sub patterns and in game decisions as much as anyone and if the team had decided not to bring him back, I would have been fine with that decision. Still, I DO think he has some good coaching qualities and I do think that he has improved overall as a coach. I agree with you. And I am hoping that much like I expect the players to grow and learn from last year (specifically the playoffs), I am hopeful Woody will grow as a coach. But I also know that disciplinarians eventually are ignored by their players, especially when things go south. If Woody can't use last season's playoff run to convince these guys to play with high effort every night, then I think Sund will take him out sooner than later.

If you're saying that our defensive big may be someone like Justin Williams, then I would say that our greatest need is for dude to play like he's Adonal Foyle. If Jeremy Richardson is our NBDL-type shooter, then he needs to play like he's Jason Kapono. Not sure the point of the question. If the GM goes a Dollar Store route, why would we ask what players do we need from Macy's? Wouldn't that clearly suggest that we can't shop at Macy's? So our greatest need is for the top 8 players to stay healthy and ball out of their minds while the Dollar Store guys (Solomon included) step-up big, kind of like the Braves young starting pitchers have mostly done this season (too bad the veteran bats have been quiet). If you're asking if we could only afford to spend around $3M on one tier 2 free agent (with all other bench players being of the unsigned free agent pedigree), what positon should we go after, I would say defensive center. With reasonable health, we should have decent perimeter shooting from Bibby, JJ, Marvin and Acie. But no amount of health will make Zaza into a defensive force nor put 2-3 inches on Horford. And I'm pretty much done with Solomon.

Ownership resolution and a boat load of patience until February. Seriously, if we go down that financially prudent path (which is very probable), it is likely a result of waiting until the judge decides who owns the property long-term and the best we can ask is that Woody (or the interim coach) manages the heck out of the talent on the team. And once the owner is determined, we have to likely wait until the '09-10 season for that person(s) to install the management team that will take the franchise forward. And then, we hope, that we can go from a bottom 3-5 payroll team to one that is at least in the top 10-12... because Atlanta is clearly a top 10 NBA market and should have a team that is funded as such.

Quote: the way Woody handles Smoove. I think it is GREAT that Mr. Smith supports Woody being tough on Smoove. I'm sure Mr. Smith knows his son better than anyone and he apparently thinks that the way Woody deals with Smoove is in his best interest. I'm a Woody hater AND I like the way he handles Smith (and others). My issue with Woody is about his game time decisions. I think he is a very good guy and I really like the way he gets his team to do non-basketball related things like visiting David Robinson's academy, bringing in Andy Young to address the team, the trip to the damaged New Orleans sites, etc. But how he handles Smith has nothing to do with substitution patterns, how he uses his resources, how he manages players in foul trouble or the offense he runs. I tend to believe that you can have an "old school" disciplinarian philosophy while still allowing a player with 2 fouls in the first quarter to play again before half-time. But that's just me.

Quote: Sekou Smith was just on the 2live Stews. He said when Smoove's dad heard the comments (i guess the comments by Rick) about Smoove not wanting to play with Woody... he was in a uproar asking who wrote that... lol His dad likes the way Woody handles his son... they were talking about woody handles Smoove hard by staying on him...just like his dad does. What I got from that is... J-Smoove is not going any where. sorry for anying typos... im typing from my cell phone Of course, the other side to that is that if Josh is ready to "be his own man" then maybe he wants to get away from a father figure in the gym (and move away from his real dad as well). At some point, every bird wants to fly from the nest and that is not out of disrespect... it's the way his father raised him. Any "old school" dad finds tremedous pride when his son makes his own way and Josh may feel like that may be challenging to do playing here in Atlanta (under the watchful and loving eye of his father). I heard Mr. Smith being interviewed a few days before Father's Day and he mentioned that Josh is now a father and he has enjoyed watching his son take responsibility for his new daughter (Mr. Smith's granddaughter). So maybe that will provide Josh with enough "grown man" type responsibilities to keep away thoughts of making an even bigger transition into independence. It's hella-nice to hear about a father shooting down the rumor that his son is running from a disciplinarian. Good for Mr. Smith, showing some old school "tough love" and appreciating Woody for doing the same.

If he goes for the QO, doesn't he have to approve of any trade made during the year? I think that is te scenario by which Devean George blocked the original Jason Kidd move. Not to say that Smith would stop a trade, especially to a team with legit post-season possibilities, but just that there is an added wrinkle that needs to be considered. If Smith does take the QO, Sund would obviously need to look at what UFAs will be available and how many teams are able to offer deals exceeding $XXM/year. Just like Smith has had to take a back seat to Brand, Baron and Maggette this summer, he may have to sit back and wait for someone like Shawn Marion and others next summer.

Just because Simmons received a bad contract and just because teams babied Rasheed, doesn't mean the Hawks are forced to make similar mistakes, especially with a 21 year-old (at the time). Hell, I guess you expect every injury riddled back-up PG to get a Speedy deal because of that precedent. And every injury riddled big man to get a Nene type deal. And just because other players have disagreements with a coach doesn't give the next guy a right to have a hissy-fit. What is this, 2nd grade? (Bobby throw a spit ball at the teacher so I could too). Who cares what Zaza did, since when is he a role-model for player behavior? Rasheed? Please. Has anyone wasted more talent in their NBA career than Rasheed Wallace? Here's my challenge, ask a player's agent would they rather negotiate a contract after Smith's '06-07 year or his '07-08 year. Stats are not much different (take a look, they are really not that much better year-over-year). The difference, he showed better emotional stability and his team made the playoffs. Maybe, just maybe, Smith's agents punted while the Hawks refused to bid against themselves. Seems like a completely logical strategy from both sides.

Quote: Like I said, we didn't have to offer the full house but you are kidding yourself if you think his agents would have let him accept a full 20M less than Al Jefferson. I think the $45M was a good starting point and should have ended around $55M (I think that's more than what Tayshaun or Josh Howard received during the previous summer). From what Sekou reported, Hawks made an initial offer, Smith's guys said no. In most negotiations, the agent should have come back with a counter-proposal, "no" is not a counter-proposal. Maybe they did and it wasn't reported, or maybe they didn't really want to try to negotiate a long-term contract after their client's emotional nonsense. Especially if they had already made arrangements for him to work out with Murphy and Hakeem. No one ever seems to consider that maybe Smith's agents knew that they were working without the desired "ammunition" to procure a substantial deal. Maybe they were the ones who "punted" to give their client another season to show and prove. No need for the ASG to bid against themselves by answering "no" with another offer. Again, if someone goes to a car lot and offers $20,000 for a good car and the sales guy says "no", only a fool would float another offer before trying to receive a specific counter offer from the sales guy. If you blurt out $25,000, who knows if the sales guy would have said $22,000? It's a negotiation, both sides need to come to the table ready to discuss specific numbers. We have NO evidence that Smith's agents were ready to do that last summer.

Quote: Josh can't expect to make much, if any, more than Bogut or Al Jefferson. On the other hand, we offered him 15/20 less than those guys last time negotiations happened. That is insulting. ASG has to look at what guys like Maggette brought in and think before trying to pull a fast one. The Clippers got where they are today by being notoriously cheap and unfriendly towards their players, the Hawks have a decision to make about whether they want to be a similar team. Keep in mind that last summer's negotiation came on the heels of Smith getting suspended for cursing out his coach AND after the season when he gave the fans the finger. Let's not pretend that he was coming off some remarkable performance in '06-07 and didn't have emotional baggage. Also, if the Hawks had won 32 games last season (which I think was the pace prior to the Bibby trade), I don't think Smith would be looking at a deal over $10M/season. I said last year that his next contract should be tied to the team's success. They made the playoffs so he should reap some benefit. Had they not, then his contract offer should have reflected the ongoing disappointment of the team's progress. I think a base contract of 5/$60M is fair and throw in a ton of team-related incentives that can get him in the $70M-$75M range. Don't comp him for blocks or DPOY or All-Star status or any other individual accomplishment. Tie the incentives to team success, like playoff appearances, winning a playoff series, earning home court advantage, winning 48+ regular season games, etc.

Sounds like posturing to me. Smith says he's not interested. clips say they may consider a littany of other options. Again, sounds like they're both trying to use the media to negotiate the contracts. Or Smith's agents are trying to entice Sund into making a pre-emptive offer. Maybe Smith's agents want Sund to think that a low-ball offer will work, because that would serve as incentive to convince Smith that Hawks are "disrespecting him" and that he should sign with Clips. After watching how Falk manipulated the Brand movement, I think these agents are willing to do anything to show a little power, including mis-guiding their clients.

Quote: Quote: I say Marvin will become more of a defensive presence while scoring closer to 14 points with 6 boards. AnakinJoe, could you be more specfic about exactly what a defensive presence is? Hell, I can put a chair in front of the goal and it would be a defensive presence. Sheez, I think we can loosely define Paul Davis as a defensive presence. Could you give a little detail please? Remember what he did in the Boston series against Pierce? He played him tough and played above avergae defense). That is what I expect for 81 games next season. I expect that he will focus on doing other things than scoring to help the team win. I expect 12-14 points and improved defensive play. I'm not suggesting that he will become our Bowen or Tayshaun next season. But instead of JJ being the sole perimeter defender, I think Marvin will work to provide more assistance in that area (again, like he did against Boston). Ultimately, that should help the team win more games. But most people around here are more interested in individual stats. If Marvin adds 6 points to his scoring average next season, does that mean the Hawks are scoring 6 more points as a team? Of course not. More than likely, that means another starter is taking fewer shots and the points are moving from one bucket to another. Who cares, unless the outcome translates into wins? (I don't even care if it means better offensive balance, floor spacing or more efficient scoring... nothing else matters but winning more than 37 games).

Quote: Here are my expectations for Marvin next season 1) Score 16-17 points a night while shooting 47-48% 2) Take that jump hook he was using at the end of the year more 3) Improve on defense and boxing out I don't think so. Let's face it, we're not going to have 4 16+ points/game players, Bibby, JJ Marvin and Smith. Someone has to give up shot opportunities and focus on helping the team in other ways. Not to mention, that I think most would hope Horford would get a few more offensive touches in the post. Anyone thinking that our strating 5 will all score 15 or more is being silly. Marvin is clearly a guy who is comfortable deferring, so I expect him to do that next season. I say Marvin will become more of a defensive presence while scoring closer to 14 points with 6 boards. And of course, he will be blistered on this board by guys who expect that we will in fact have 4 guys averaging 16+ points in the starting line-up while thinking that Horford should be right around 14-15 points per game.

Man, that would be great. But I seriously doubt that he would come here. He will probably end up in Phoenix, Detroit or Boston But he would be a very nice fit here and would bring a lot of leadership to the squad.

Quote: Quote: Anyone care to make the argument why Milwaukee gave him that contract? Here is my guess as to the Buck's thinking: 1) They want to demonstrate that they are committed to winning. Since Jefferson is still reeling from the trade, I think this could be good-will move. That is this helps with locker room issues and gets the team off on the right foot for 08-09. 2) Bogut's production is not bad at all, and he seems to be the heart of that team. Next year I would think the market could explode on Bogut, esp since there are so many teams looking to clear cap to go after LBJ and Wade. The losers would certainly look to snag someone else. Bogut is one of the few traditional centers in the NBA, thus his skills would be in high demand. I wouldn't have been surprised to see someone offer him the max if he hadn't taken the deal. Just my two cents and I could be completely off-base. Take a look at his last 3 months of this past season. He averaged around 16/11/2. Not bad for a young big man. In fact, pretty good. No doubt that centers are more highly paid, a simple matter of supply and demand. I could be wrong, but his deal seems in the ballpark with what Kaman received a few years ago.