JSmooooove

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

I agree it is not guaranteed that this team will be losing big for the next 5 years but I do guarantee that LeBron will not even consider Atlanta this summer.  That is an absolute lock down guarantee.

Yeah everyone knows that, I was just making a point that we could be back in contention at any time because nobody knows the future. LeBron could get hit buy a bus today and Embiid chooses to retire to try to explore the world or something then the East is wide open. WHO KNOWS. 

If certain posters would stop talking in absolutes and GUARANTEES the conversation would be a lot more enjoyable. Right now it's just annoying AF.

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There is a guarantee with this strategy though.  This team is guaranteed to lose for the next 5 years because of this strategy.  That's what is unacceptable to me.  They are going into this strategy knowing full well how long it is going to take to climb out of this hole they dug, and they are accepting that losing.  That's how a losing culture is established, and that's the most difficult aspect to overcome.  I also don't believe young players, particularly these AAU brats, can properly develop in losing environments.

That's not guaranteed. We could sign LeBron this summer. You can't tell the future so stop with all of your absolutes. 

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

There are a few here who have said that the tank would get us back into contention by next year or the year after.    There are many who jumped on KB for saying that this is a 5 to 10 year process.   IF Literally Nobody Believes that tanking is an immediate jump back.. let's come to an agreement..

1.  We have embarked on a plan that will take us at least 4 years to get back to the playoffs if at all. 

2.   We have embarked on a plan that  will take us at least 7 years to get into the championship picture if at all. 

3.  None of the current players save Collins will be here to see the championship caliber team if at all. 

Can you agree with these three things??  IF so then I believe Argument Over.  I think KB would agree. 

An immediate jump back to what? Like I said, Atlanta has never been able to say they're in championship contention except for MAYBE twice in the entire history of the franchise. Instead of staying on the same path that we were on which was not going to get us any close to being in contention, most people understand why the Hawks decided to start fresh to try to acquire game-changing talent at the top of the draft.

How else are we going to get that talent? NBA stars don't sign with Atlanta. Never have. I guess we should just sit around and hope some dumb@ss GM decides to give away a James Harden type again, like that will ever happen. 

Just now, Peoriabird said:

Yep...He never passed the eye test although according to the experts, Block shots per game are suppose to translate from college to the pros! LOL!

Chewbacca shouldn't have even been a lottery pick but Billy K was the worst GM of all time. 

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

For all you tankers who believe that it's an immediate jump back into the championship picture... consider this.

Schlenk and our ownership probably have mapped out a plan that looks like this:

1.  4 -5  years of High and Mid level Lottery picks. 

2.  in the 4 to 5 years seek FAs.

then start team building to get into the championship picture.

the first question is why?

Why?

1.  They want to wait out Lebron and Golden State.   Lebron has maybe 3 more years of viability and the Warriors have about 3 more years before their contracts tear them apart. 

2.  Making Money.  own a franchise is about making money... not necessarily winning.   How much does an owner get for winning?  How much does an owner get for keeping his team cheap and capitalizing off of BRI and TV Contracts?

3. Building a Fanbase.   The Atlanta Fanbase is fickle.   You see it in every sport.  The Hawks ownership recognize that they won't get the loyalty that other markets may have.  So they keep the fans excited with Young cardiac kids.  It's what the Green Bay Packers did years ago when they were not really good but they didn't want to lose their legendary fans.  They marketed the cardiac kids.  People thought that these guys would do something and they were not built to.

What Atlanta will do is keep this group young.  Feed the fans lots of dunks and appearances.  Improve the good guy image of the Hawks. 

Then when the time is right, they will forsake some of these cardiac kids and go after a FA or two. 

So my prediction is that we are about 7 years away from championship contention. 

I think that the only players who may still be on this team when we get there are Collins and whoever we draft.  Next year, Dennis and Prince are probably traded away possibly for nothing. 

 

 

Literally nobody has said tanking is an immediate jump back into championship picture. That's what people are referring to when they talk about a strawman. 

Speaking of "championship picture," how many times has this franchise been able to say that since moving to Atlanta? Twice?

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There is always something to play for.  Player morale for one.

Player morale? They're millionaires playing a kids game and they know the season is over.. I think they're sleeping just fine at night. Plus half the team won't even be here next year. 

Anyway, I said I wouldn't respond to these posts so I'll stop now I just wanted to put my two cents in. And deep down I think you know most people here are being very reasonable. 

Just now, KB21 said:

I could say the same thing about the pro losing, I mean tanking, crowd.

Yeah this thread is literally called "The tank thread." You can create a thread called "This intentional tank is the dumbest idea ever thread" or whatever you want to call it and complain in there to your heart's content. But to keep coming in this thread and arguing with everyone is what is getting everyone annoyed. 

And I do understand your point about how you will never cheer for the team to lose, I respect that. At this point we have nothing to play for, so people are trying to grasp on to some kind of hope - which is trying to get the highest pick possible. We can't go back and change the past and keep Mills and Dwight so what other choice do we have but to try to look for the positive? 

20 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Correction.  It's not a Debbie downer perspective.  It's a realistic perspective.  The Hawks are in for many years of losing.  That is real.

You're in every single thread repeating the same things over and over. Anyone who has visited here more than once knows how you feel by now. People are just tired of the horse getting beaten over.. and over... and over.......

14 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Y'all gonna learn KB is like Diesel. These two be [EDIT: rolling! ~lw3] for no reason 

I tried saying this but the mods edited my post. Just stop responding to him, people!!

Just now, KB21 said:

My eyes.

Not even worth a response. 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

This draft is weak.

Based on what? 

1 minute ago, davis171 said:

He just spews stuff out and prays it's right lol...

I'm not allowed to use the "t word" but it's pretty obvious at this point he found his shtick and he's sticking to it. 

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Considering that the worse our record is, the harder it is going to be to bounce back and get back into the playoffs, I'd rather concentrate on winning.  

[EDIT: Sorry, JSmooooove! The T-Word is still a no-no 'round these parts! And no, I don't mean Tanking! ~lw3]

38 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Nothing I have posted is a straw man argument.  

Tanking sucks because it doesn’t work.  Those who support it do so based on the false premise that you are going to get this generational superstar by doing it and will be back in the playoffs in short time.  

You are much more likely to get an Andrew Wiggins or Anthony Bennett than a Kevin Durant.  

Mayne his realization will sink in when next years team is worse than this years team.  

How could next year's team possibly be worse? LOL it's not like we're gonna trade away Dennis and Prince, it's impossible to have less talent next year. 

Work on getting free throws at an average rate before even thinking about threes. Forreal what the hell??

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

It was uncharacteristically bad outside of one pick.

Ok I can see what you're saying but you made it seem like finding a GM who drafts good first round picks every year is easy. It doesn't work like that so I'd rather have someone I know is great at other aspects of being a GM and has proven it with bargain contracts and absolutely fleecing other teams in trades. 

And besides I don't see why Ferry would have to be in charge of drafting, get an assistant who can focus on that aspect and get a better scouting department. 

10 minutes ago, Lurker said:

This is not baseball in which its not surprising if even first round draft picks are a miss. Draft correctly and you're in good shape.

How many teams in the NBA consistently draft well year after year? Maybe 5? It's a crapshoot at the end of the day. If everyone was good at it you would see a lot more great teams besides the maybe 3 or 4 we currently have in the league. This day in age it's more important to have someone who can make great deals through trade and free agency. The Warriors hitting on all their picks was honestly a fluke, no other team in the league comes close to hitting that many times. 

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

He played great in the regular season series and the fact he stretches the floor changes everything for Washington against Atlanta.

No. Ya boy Kieff played TWENTY MINUTES. Compare that to the other Washington starters. Was he even playing in the 4the? Again, just stop.

1 hour ago, StephenHawking said:

It's crazy how underappreciated Dennis is. Its just flat out crazy. Put him on every other team in the country while having those numbers across the board in your first pos as a starter and they'd be hyping the shit out of him. Its sad that nobody values Atlanta Sports. Not even their fans. 

It's like every fanbase is full of homers outside of the Hawks'. We are as pessimistic and neutral as it gets.

Yeah I agree Dennis has been as much as you can ask for as a first year starting PG in the NBA. At the same time just watch the Super Bowl from a few months ago to understand why Atlanta fans are unable to get their hopes up about anything. It's sad as hell but it's the reality of the situation. 

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Can you shoot threes and have NBA level athleticism as a wing? If the answer is yes, they are paying players a lot for that.

 

You are looking at his impact for the Hawks. He's a joke for us. We need all players to contribute to every part of skill for us and he clearly is not capable. He needs to be in a role like Andre Robertson or Trevor Ariza where he has offensive players like Harden who make it possible for him not to create on offense. 

Well I hope he is as valuable as you say he is, should be pretty easy to trade him this offseason if so. 

6 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Ironically, it reminds me of the type of play your avatar would make.  At least with Smoove, he'd race down on the other end and block the layup attempt, and get the ball back.

Sadly I completely agree. Baze is a higher paid, less athletic, worse rebounding, worse defending, arguably even worse offensive player then smoove. And getting paid over twice as much. It's sickening. 

I'm sorry but most of the blame goes to our 70 million dollar man. We had a real shot to steal this game and he tries to do it all by himself and turns it over. To the surprise of absolutely nobody. That was the most Baze play of all time. 

9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

2016 Toronto is weaker than any version of Cleveland with LeBron, even this one.
2016 Miami is stronger than this year's Toronto.
2016 Atlanta is weaker than this year's Washington.
2016 Boston is much better than this year's Atlanta, it's not even close.
I agree on Charlotte vs Milwaukee.
2016 Indiana is much stronger than 2017 Indiana.
I agree on Chicago.

It's not a case in which its like SEC football in "oh, we all beat each other up and it hurt some teams' records!!!!!" The East is Cleveland, maybe Washington, and six or seven weak sisters that are much, much worse than maybe two teams.

So you agree with me except for the 3 seed, 5 seed and 7 seed. We'll just have to agree to disagree on those. But either way you're saying 4 of the seeds this year are stronger then last year so I can't see how last years east was clearly stronger in any way.