NBASupes

This doesn't match the slanderous nonsense some of our posters been posting of late.

It will probably cost more in real life.

I have four: I'll make a podcast tonight to explain them 1. We get better move: Send OKC 1st and unprotected our 2nd to SAC. Convince Lou to waive his NTC for either retirement or to become a signing when teams are looking to add players for the playoffs. A team like the Lakers make sense. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybuzlve9 2. Sign IT0 for the min to backup Trae. 3. The blockbuster Three team trade. I'll post a part of it and list the real deal out http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yanvervu Atlanta gets: Ben Simmons, Charles Bassey, and Lou Dort Philly gets: John Collins, DeAndre Hunter, Danilo Gallinari, Derrick Favors, and a top 5 protected 1st 2022 from Atlanta OKC gets: Tobias Harris, Jalen Johnson, CHA 2022 1st from Atlanta 4. Hawks sign Skylar Mays and Sharife Cooper to multi year min deals. Trae/IT0/Coop Bogi/Kev/Mays Dort/TLC/Woodard Simmons/Barnes/Knox Capela/Okongwu/Bassey

I just wrapped up the pod on this thread but there is a chance that this Simmons could be a hit for Atlanta. Every big has improved offensively with Trae. Every single one! But is Simmons a big or a wing offensively is the ultimate question because every wing played their worse with Trae outside of Bogi who is playing his worst this year.

@thecampster, you spent the last page in a half slandering Reddish and propping up Knox? You good bro?

I would say he is less likely to change than Russ. I saw young Russ grow when he turned into prime Russ. I really haven't seen much growth from Trae from a playing stance. He's gotten better. Much better but he is still Trae. His game is his game. With Russ, he really improved his passing and his feel for the position at PG going into his prime. Can you say Trae is much different than he was in the 2nd half of his rookie season other than being better at skills and knowing what teams are going to do to him but still, he's primarily the same player

His best shot is open ones. That's when he's at his best. He rarely misses open shots

They been after that man for over a year plus. Boston sees him as the face of the franchise.

It's always nice in thought but in reality, it dont work like that. Lakers thought they could fix Westbrook but he plays like Westbrook. Lakers play Bron ball. Mavs play Luka ball. The thought was Porzingis is a stud. Top 20 player at that time. Its gonna be fun! Man, they play Luka ball. It's always fun when its just you NBA 2king it. I rather focus on players that fit Trae's style of play. Not Trae needs to change this and that to fit. That's likely not going to happen much less be maintained.

Our offense been going in that direction this year. Dieng, Capela, Gallo, and JC have all gotten more post up touches than last year.

It's a half season experiment. Could it work? I dont even know. Sabonis is used as a 4 right now but he generally guards the biggest player.

You gotta see the big picture. Is getting an offensive star at an enhancement production position more important than getting a better player who adds more value? I think it is but I want a quality trade for it. I think Barnes, McConnell under a good deal, and Holiday cover the JC for Sabonis part. Sabonis shoots it like Horford. Can hit an consistently hit contested middy as well as open middy and he hits open 3s although struggles with contested 3s. The difference is, he's not gonna hit fadeaway like JC nor is he a movement specialist like JC. Sabonis provides superior value as a scorer in the post, can draw consistent doubles, the best passing big outside of Jokic, and he's can be used in a lot more on ball actions than JC can. JC and Sabonis are both elite PnR screeners and rollers. Both are capable of PnP but JC is a better shooter. Defensively, there is a clear gap between JC and Sabonis. JC is just much better.

We played our best ball when we slowed things down. We used play uptempo but the problem is Trae decision making skills become bad all game, not just in the 4th quarter. The best thing Nate did was change the tempo. What we did much better last year was get stops which got us into a more open court style. We gotta get a lot more stops than we have been doing so far this year and also are rebounding has taken a major step back. We also gotta be honest, the COVID year really hurt shooting from bigs and role players. We ate off of that last year in leaving those guys open. We haven't been so lucky with that this year and its causing us to have Capela away from the basket far more often than last year as the zone defense was a big help last year, now, we just get killed in it. Can't play uptempo ball and expect to win if that's not adjacent to your personnel. Our 2nd unit has better defenders than our 1st unit. That helps a ton when defending. Better defenders, its the same for offense, better offensive players help more than bad ones. Not trying to be starky either, just stating facts. I have no issues walking the ball up within the flow of the game. It's when it's the 4th and they locked down your offense, you have to push tempo to get better looks even if risk goes up because of it. Trae ball is way more than that and the PnR is way ahead of the floater for Trae. The floater is a scoring option for Trae. It's not the entire operation. Yep, we spam the PnR, especially when Clint is their 1/5 PnR because it creates space for Trae. He does it because it is best for his game but he does it better than anyone in the NBA has ever done it. It could generate more offense for the wings and when we had less dependable bigs like Jones and Parker, he did use it to create for others, he mainly uses it for himself. Whereas Luka or Bron like to use it to create for others more than score for themselves. My issue with Simmons is touches. Will he get touches if it's not from rebounding. Trae is the king of you get the board and demanding for the rock like his life won't go on. Especially in more important possessions. Simmons damn near blew a casket when they went to Jimmy Butler, with Trae, it's not just the coach, it's also the player. That's a part of Trae ball. He is a ball stopper. All of the graduates of LeBron James University are. Especially the honors students like Trae Young and Luka Doncic. It's his playing style. You can't change people playing style. It is what it is. I would to see JC used more off the ball in movement. Man, I would love it.

Idk. More than likely, they probably would have beat them and the Knicks as we did.

We don't have another player that the defense cares about with the rock. We been downloaded

My belief is, you solve the needs step by step. Barnes played his best ball with Luka in a heliocentric offense. He's worth a flyer. Even if SAC doesn't care for Caris, Cleveland does, make them the 4th team and sent Lauri to the Kings. Holiday replaces the our need to play a scrub like TLC. McConnell is out for the year but he's the ideal backup for Trae, long term. We would play Sabonis at the 4 like he is right now in IND and Capela at the 5. This offseason, we will reevaluate it and make trades. If KAT becomes available, you have draft assets, Hunter, Sabonis, Capela which could be moved. We need an offensive star big, Sabonis solves that. If we can get a superstar offensive big, we put ourselves in position to do that. That's how I see it. We should be looking for a 3 who fits what we are looking for. We could possibly find it in FA or the draft. Herb Jones and Lu Dort are just examples although Lu is smallish. We gotta envision what's the best way to improve the team. We gotta put players around Trae that he can elevate. Hunter always looks good when his shots fall but doesn't when they don't and he always get shut out when he's making shots or missing them.

If I was to trade someone right now. I would have to trade the player that gets me the max value. That's JC. I would want a lot more than Sabonis for JC. JC been more productive. He's locked in for many years. He's a perfect fit with Turner even though Trae isn't a good fit with Turner. I would do that. This is the trade I would do: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9vt5mbr

Ingram impact metrics are worse than Bogi here or in SAC and if our history of wings with Trae is proof, his touches will go down, his defense is which has been bad every year impact will be even worse with Trae. Ingram would he our worst option. Ingram seemed like a good option for replacing Cam, not necessarily for the others. I am not sure honestly. Sabonis hasn't played with his ideal personnel but his offensive impact has been on with Capela who's been in ideal situations outside of his season with Russ. KAT has to a degree when Rose was there offensively and he pulled a 5.8. That would have been the highest offensive impact season since Korver 4.6 in the 60 win season. I do think we can see a Korver like jump from Sabonis. He's a lethal PnR finisher as is KAT. Lance is the only one he's had in his career outside of Russ who can run it decently. Is JC the right PF for Sabonis? What if Okongwu is long term. I still think Okongwu development will decide things. It's hard to find many PFs as good on D as JC is right now. My ideal fits around Trae Trae Last years Bogi A SF who does the dirty work, can defend and versatile, can shoot open 3s, high BBIQ and feel for the game. Like a bigger Danny Green. Defensive minded PF who can protect the rim, communicate, play the PnR, has size, can shoot a little, has high BBIQ, a good feel for the game, and play with a lot of energy. An offensive star or superstar center. As long as they don't suck on defense, and at best just average. They must be elite at the PnR. They must have shooting range. I dont care if they aren't good contested shooters, must make open shots. Can pass at a very high level. Set very good or great screens, must command double teams and coverage, must be an automatic bucket if left alone on the block, and they must have a will and drive to be their best self. I envision Trae and Bogi as fits. I don't see the others as fits. Hunter projects to be a #2 option who needs quality touches on occasion. JC just too small. Trae can be small, not you. Clint offensively just lacking too much. Okongwu could potentially be a fit at the 4. Cooper has potential at the 1 as a backup when he gets that shot right. The rest can be moved. I do like Kevin as a 6th man for us.

You think these Hawks would have beat the Clippers in the playoffs?

It was December 13th. The Hawks played a home game against the streaking yet awful Houston Rockets. Going into halftime up by 11 points. It seemed as if this game could have a chance to end early, possibly by the beginning of the 4th quarter. Going into the 3rd, John Lucas was asked what do the Rockets need to do to win this game. Watching this game, I was like, okay, yeah right when Lucas said this. But then especially in the 4th. I saw Houston change their personnel. Nwaba moved to PG defensively. Anytime Capela who was killing HOU was on the floor, they moved Tate to the 5. They doubled down on stopping the 1-5 PnR. They just played hard and moved the rock. Nothing special, no massive scheme changes, not throwing a ton of defenses at you like TOR or MIA. Just simply a personnel move and playing hard. Houston steadily even without much scoring due to injuries was scoring about 29 points a quarter but in the 4th, they scored a blistering 44 POINTS. The Hawks scoring a usual for them, 33.6 ppq going into the 4th. Only scored 25 which is also a typical thing we have seen this year from the Hawks. The Hawks have an effort issue for sure but they have a personnel issue as well which I will address in the next paragraph. They simply don't play that hard. Our as LP would say, they don't make you feel them(Twitter). The Hawks foul a lot but they don't play physical. They do not get into your chest and when they try, they get bumped off many times or offenses tend to use their aggression against them. JC is big on playing with effort. Probably the only player with Clint that gives everything he has on a possession basis but he's too small at times and without a big like Capela, that aggression just turns into fouls. When Atlanta plays within themselves is the best version but the issue with that is, they have to have a steady rhythm. Too often, Atlanta is out of sync and while Bogi is probably the only Hawk who can function not being in sync, the others can't. JC needs his touches. Capela needs to feel like they aren't killing him on defense with blown assignments and missed rotations. Kev gets so disappointed with the mental effort of others not realizing his physical effort isn't it even if mentally, he's the best of all our wings. The sad thing is, it takes nothing to get Atlanta out of sync. Some teams like GS, when they are in sync, GOODNIGHT! With Atlanta, for how long? Which leads us into, the Trae Young conundrum: Note: These stats do not tell us how good you are, but how effective you are in this specific situation. The biggest thing I've noticed over the last 4 years of Trae Young was the production of bigs. I started tracking this awhile ago. I am just going to use the RAPTOR/WAR which is impact based stats. This doesn't tell me you are good, it just tells me how impactful you are. Centers and PFs: What is a trend we see. Bigs have outproduced in Atlanta with Trae than anywhere else if they are in the rotation (500mpg min) Next: Jabari Parker: Parker basically had the best season of his career with Trae Young. His numbers were much higher than this till SAC played him and his # dropped steeply. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Jabari Parker'16-'17 Bucks SF, PF 1,728 +0.6 -1.3 -0.7 -0.5 -2.1 -2.6 +0.4 -1.5 -1.1 1.4 Jabari Parker'19-'20 Kings PF 917 +0.7 -0.9 -0.2 +2.8 -3.1 -0.2 +1.2 -1.4 -0.1 1.2 Jabari Parker'18-'19 Wizards SF, PF 1,724 -1.2 -1.0 -2.2 -1.3 -0.2 -1.5 -1.3 -0.8 -2.1 0.6 Jabari Parker'17-'18 Bucks SF, PF 910 -0.4 -1.1 -1.5 -2.5 -1.2 -3.7 -0.9 -1.2 -2.1 0.3 Jabari Parker'14-'15 Bucks SF, PF 738 -2.3 -1.9 -4.2 -2.1 -4.3 -6.4 -2.4 -2.6 -4.9 -0.8 Jabari Parker'15-'16 Bucks SF, PF 2,408 -1.6 -2.5 -4.0 +0.6 -3.0 -2.4 -1.2 -2.7 -3.9 -1.4 Damian Jones is twice as productive in Atlanta than he was last year in SAC. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Damian Jones'19-'20 Hawks C 887 -1.4 -1.7 -3.1 -1.8 -6.0 -7.8 -1.6 -2.6 -4.2 -0.7 Damian Jones'20-'21 Kings C 547 -3.0 -2.2 -5.2 -4.4 -0.4 -4.8 -3.5 -2.0 -5.4 -0.7 Capela is as either the most productive offensively in Atlanta he's ever been or just as productive. Note, Capela did not play a game for Atlanta even though is listed as a Hawk in his first year with the team. He played every min that season with the Rockets. Clint having a tough year but his last season was the best of his career at ranked 98th in the WAR since 13-14. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Clint Capela'20-'21 Hawks C 2,467 +0.3 +5.1 +5.5 +2.7 +4.0 +6.8 +0.8 +5.2 +6.0 11.0 Clint Capela'17-'18 Rockets C 2,554 0.0 +4.2 +4.2 +2.6 -1.4 +1.2 +0.4 +3.3 +3.7 8.4 Clint Capela'18-'19 Rockets PF, C 2,580 +0.6 +2.2 +2.8 +1.5 +0.5 +2.0 +0.8 +1.9 +2.7 7.2 Clint Capela'19-'20 Hawks C 1,279 -1.0 +4.9 +3.8 -0.5 +0.2 -0.3 -1.0 +4.2 +3.1 3.8 Clint Capela'16-'17 Rockets C 1,837 -0.7 +1.5 +0.8 +2.6 -0.9 +1.7 -0.1 +1.1 +1.0 3.5 Clint Capela'15-'16 Rockets PF, C 1,514 -0.4 +1.8 +1.4 -0.3 +2.0 +1.7 -0.4 +2.0 +1.6 3.3 Clint Capela'21-'22 Hawks C 1,068 +0.3 +2.0 +2.3 +7.3 -3.3 +4.0 +1.8 +1.0 +2.8 3.0 Same for Dedmon. All of his most effective offensive years have been with the Hawks. The only year that was down was his time with the Kings which he ended up getting traded back to the Hawks. While his numbers look bad, it was the worst in the NBA for a center at one point with the Kings. The Hawks basically rejuvenated Dedmon's career in just 10 games that year. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Dewayne Dedmon'16-'17 Spurs C 1,427 -1.4 +3.4 +2.0 -2.2 +4.5 +2.3 -1.7 +3.8 +2.1 3.5 Dewayne Dedmon'18-'19 Hawks C 1,609 -1.3 +1.5 +0.2 +0.9 -1.0 0.0 -0.9 +1.1 +0.3 2.5 Dewayne Dedmon'17-'18 Hawks C 1,542 -1.8 +1.0 -0.8 -0.1 +0.9 +0.8 -1.5 +1.1 -0.4 1.8 Dewayne Dedmon'21-'22 Heat C 586 -1.6 +2.0 +0.5 +4.7 -0.2 +4.5 -0.4 +1.6 +1.3 1.2 Dewayne Dedmon'15-'16 Magic C 705 -0.8 +1.3 +0.5 -1.7 -0.3 -2.0 -1.0 +1.1 +0.1 1.0 Dewayne Dedmon'14-'15 Magic C 845 -3.2 +0.5 -2.7 -2.8 +5.7 +3.0 -3.2 +1.7 -1.6 0.5 Dewayne Dedmon'19-'20 Hawks C 774 -5.9 +3.7 -2.3 -1.5 +1.0 -0.5 -5.4 +3.4 -2.0 0.3 Even Ersan had somewhat of a renaissance year with rookie Trae: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/?player=Ersan Ilyasova&season=2019 Next up: Alex Len His offensive production with Trae is through the roof for his norm. He only played 15 games with the Kings in 2019-20. 40 was w/ Hawks. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Alex Len'14-'15 Suns C 1,518 -2.7 +2.7 0.0 -1.1 +0.8 -0.3 -2.6 +2.5 -0.1 2.1 Alex Len'19-'20 Kings C 970 -1.5 +2.0 +0.5 -4.5 +1.7 -2.8 -2.2 +2.1 -0.1 1.3 Alex Len'18-'19 Hawks C 1,544 -1.8 +0.6 -1.2 -1.5 +0.3 -1.2 -1.8 +0.6 -1.2 1.2 Alex Len'17-'18 Suns C 1,395 -0.9 -0.1 -1.0 -1.9 -1.3 -3.1 -1.1 -0.3 -1.4 1.0 Alex Len'20-'21 Wizards C 1,021 -2.5 +1.1 -1.4 -2.7 -1.1 -3.8 -2.7 +0.7 -2.0 0.4 Alex Len'15-'16 Suns PF, C 1,821 -4.3 +2.2 -2.2 -3.6 -0.3 -3.8 -4.4 +1.8 -2.6 0.2 Alex Len'16-'17 Suns C 1,560 -3.1 +1.8 -1.4 -4.9 -2.0 -6.9 -3.7 +1.1 -2.5 0.2 Alex Len'21-'22 Kings C 498 -4.5 -0.7 -5.3 -1.4 -0.8 -2.2 -4.1 -0.7 -4.8 -0.5 Next up: Bruno @TheNorthCydeRises guy: Because Bruno is so bad, he hasn't qualified but once and that was with the Hawks for mins needed. Bruno won't be in this use case. Next: JC, even though he's only been a Hawk, he was the only Hawk that played without Trae that's current and wasn't washed like Jeff: BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR John Collins'20-'21 Hawks PF, C 2,424 +1.2 +1.0 +2.2 +3.9 +0.2 +4.0 +1.8 +0.9 +2.7 6.8 John Collins'18-'19 Hawks PF, C 1,829 +2.5 -0.3 +2.2 +5.2 -1.5 +3.7 +3.2 -0.5 +2.7 5.1 John Collins'21-'22 Hawks PF, C 1,142 +2.1 +0.7 +2.8 +1.9 +3.0 +4.9 +2.1 +1.3 +3.4 3.6 John Collins'17-'18 Hawks PF, C 1,785 -0.6 +0.3 -0.3 -3.0 +1.0 -2.0 -1.1 +0.5 -0.5 2.0 John Collins'19-'20 Hawks PF 1,363 +0.3 -0.7 -0.4 -1.7 +0.9 -0.8 0.0 -0.4 -0.4 1.7 Most bigs didn't get enough mins to be a part of the rotation but we have the data that shows us. It's difficult to really use wings as with the exception of Trae's rookie year. It's hard to find guys who played more than a season in the NBA without Trae and are in rotations although there are a few like Kent Bazemore for example. Baze's played one season with Trae before being traded and he did not close to his production level. Even though he regressed with Atlanta, when he played for GS and SAC. He maintain a 2+ WAR which is typical of a vet rotational player. 4+ is a good dependable rotational player. 3+ is a starting rotational player. I wasn't much of a fan of Bazemore's game even if his production was high and GS fans really weren't fans and glad he is gone but it's clear Trae's heliocentric style as well as Russ and Bron's, especially Bron doesn't fit him at all. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Kent Bazemore'15-'16 Hawks SG, SF 2,408 -0.1 +1.8 +1.6 -1.1 -1.8 -2.9 -0.3 +1.1 +0.7 4.3 Kent Bazemore'16-'17 Hawks SG, SF 2,113 -1.5 +1.9 +0.5 -1.0 -0.5 -1.5 -1.4 +1.5 +0.1 3.1 Kent Bazemore'20-'21 Warriors SG, SF 1,333 -2.5 +2.0 -0.5 +0.7 +4.8 +5.5 -2.0 +2.7 +0.7 2.4 Kent Bazemore'19-'20 Kings SG, SF 1,688 -2.3 +2.0 -0.3 -4.1 +4.3 +0.2 -2.9 +2.6 -0.2 2.2 Kent Bazemore'13-'14 Lakers SG, SF 911 -1.5 +0.5 -1.0 -5.7 0.0 -5.7 -2.4 +0.4 -2.0 0.4 Kent Bazemore'18-'19 Hawks PG, SG, SF 1,643 -1.8 +0.4 -1.4 -6.8 +1.0 -5.8 -2.9 +0.6 -2.3 0.4 Kent Bazemore'14-'15 Hawks SG, SF 1,627 -2.1 +0.6 -1.5 -4.9 -0.8 -5.8 -2.8 +0.3 -2.5 0.2 Prince probably didn't deserve that contract Brooklyn gave him but you know flashes play a massive role into the 2nd contract and always has. That said, outside of this season, his worst was with Trae as well. This season, he's been used a lot as a 4. It's been nothing short of a disaster for him and MIN. The one thing with wings, offensively, there production with Trae stays the same for the most part outside of guys like Kent and Bembry who needs quality touches but guys like Prince generally stay the same. It's their defense which hits a cliff. That's every wing that's a part of the rotation with Trae. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Taurean Prince'20-'21 Cavaliers SF, PF 905 -0.8 +0.2 -0.6 +0.8 -1.7 -0.9 -0.5 -0.1 -0.6 1.0 Taurean Prince'16-'17 Hawks SF 1,168 -2.7 +0.9 -1.7 -4.4 +4.6 +0.2 -3.1 +1.7 -1.4 0.8 Taurean Prince'19-'20 Nets SF, PF 1,857 -2.9 +0.2 -2.8 +0.4 +0.4 +0.8 -2.4 +0.2 -2.2 0.6 Taurean Prince'17-'18 Hawks SF 2,464 -1.0 -1.5 -2.5 -0.4 -2.6 -2.9 -0.8 -1.8 -2.6 0.2 Taurean Prince'18-'19 Hawks SF, PF 1,552 -0.9 -1.3 -2.2 +0.3 -4.2 -3.9 -0.6 -1.9 -2.6 0.1 Taurean Prince'21-'22 Timberwolves SF, PF 455 -2.8 -1.0 -3.7 -5.8 -3.5 -9.3 -3.6 -1.6 -5.1 -0.6 Next: Bembry 95 has never been much on offense but he's twice as without Trae than with him and he sucked in Bud's system which Bud rarely liked using him anyway. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR DeAndre' Bembry'21-'22 Nets SG, SF 727 -0.3 +1.7 +1.4 +0.7 -0.6 +0.1 -0.1 +1.3 +1.2 1.5 DeAndre' Bembry'18-'19 Hawks SG, SF 1,931 -3.1 +0.5 -2.5 -2.7 +2.7 -0.1 -3.2 +1.1 -2.1 0.7 DeAndre' Bembry'20-'21 Raptors SG, SF 972 -2.3 +0.3 -2.0 -1.5 +2.5 +1.0 -2.3 +0.8 -1.5 0.6 DeAndre' Bembry'19-'20 Hawks SG, SF 915 -3.3 +2.5 -0.8 -6.8 +1.4 -5.4 -4.2 +2.5 -1.7 0.5 DeAndre' Bembry'17-'18 Hawks SF, PF 455 -5.3 +0.1 -5.2 -2.6 -0.4 -3.0 -5.0 0.0 -5.0 -0.5 Next: Snell I was shocked to see Snell regressed in Atlanta production wise but I do think he came to Atlanta on the downswing of his career but these numbers are disappointing. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Tony Snell'14-'15 Bulls SG, SF 1,552 -0.2 -0.1 -0.3 +0.2 +1.1 +1.3 -0.2 +0.2 0.0 2.1 Tony Snell'15-'16 Bulls SF 1,301 -2.6 -0.3 -2.9 -0.7 +6.1 +5.4 -2.4 +1.0 -1.3 0.9 Tony Snell'18-'19 Bucks SG, SF 1,332 -0.2 -1.5 -1.7 +0.2 +0.2 +0.4 -0.2 -1.3 -1.5 0.9 Tony Snell'16-'17 Bucks SG, SF 2,521 -0.6 -1.3 -1.9 +0.5 -3.0 -2.4 -0.4 -1.7 -2.1 0.8 Tony Snell'19-'20 Pistons SG, SF 1,641 +0.4 -1.7 -1.3 -2.7 -1.2 -3.9 -0.2 -1.7 -1.9 0.7 Tony Snell'20-'21 Hawks SG, SF 1,058 -1.0 -2.1 -3.1 -0.9 -0.5 -1.4 -1.1 -1.9 -3.0 -0.1 Tony Snell'17-'18 Bucks SG, SF 2,187 -1.5 -1.5 -3.0 +0.3 -3.2 -2.9 -1.2 -1.9 -3.1 -0.4 Tony Snell'13-'14 Bulls SG, SF 1,277 -2.1 -0.6 -2.8 -4.8 -1.4 -6.2 -2.8 -0.9 -3.7 -0.6 Next: Solo cup His worst production was in Atlanta. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Solomon Hill'15-'16 Pacers SF 1,064 +0.7 +0.9 +1.6 +2.6 +1.2 +3.7 +1.1 +1.0 +2.1 2.7 Solomon Hill'16-'17 Pelicans SF 2,374 -2.2 +0.7 -1.5 +0.3 +2.8 +3.1 -1.8 +1.2 -0.6 2.6 Solomon Hill'14-'15 Pacers SF 2,381 -1.2 +0.6 -0.6 -2.5 -3.4 -6.0 -1.5 -0.2 -1.7 1.2 Solomon Hill'19-'20 Heat SF 1,130 -1.2 -0.5 -1.6 +1.2 -3.0 -1.7 -0.7 -1.0 -1.7 0.6 Solomon Hill'18-'19 Pelicans SF, PF 878 -3.0 +0.2 -2.8 -2.2 -2.9 -5.1 -3.0 -0.4 -3.4 -0.3 Solomon Hill'20-'21 Hawks SF, PF 1,658 -2.9 -0.2 -3.1 -0.8 -1.0 -1.8 -2.7 -0.4 -3.1 -0.3 Next up: Justin Anderson Same for Anderson as it was for others BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Justin Anderson'16-'17 76ers SG, SF 1,228 -0.9 -0.3 -1.2 -2.2 -2.9 -5.1 -1.2 -0.8 -2.0 0.5 Justin Anderson'17-'18 76ers SG, SF 552 -0.2 -0.1 -0.3 -4.6 -0.8 -5.4 -1.2 -0.3 -1.5 0.4 Justin Anderson'18-'19 Hawks SG, SF 463 -2.4 -0.4 -2.8 -2.8 +1.9 -0.8 -2.6 +0.1 -2.5 0.1 Next up: Treveon Graham More of the same: BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Treveon Graham'18-'19 Nets PG, SG, SF 794 -2.8 +1.9 -0.9 +2.5 +0.8 +3.3 -1.8 +1.8 -0.1 1.1 Treveon Graham'17-'18 Hornets SG 1,050 -0.3 -1.2 -1.5 -2.4 -1.4 -3.7 -0.8 -1.3 -2.1 0.4 Treveon Graham'19-'20 Hawks SG, SF 929 -3.2 +0.3 -2.8 -3.7 -0.4 -4.1 -3.5 +0.2 -3.2 -0.2 Next up: Bogi Bogi is having a bad year as he had 17-18 in SAC. His offense is so much based on off of how good his shooting is. Defensively, he was much better last year. Bogi might be one of those players where his shooting impact his effort on defense. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Bogdan Bogdanovic'20-'21 Hawks SG 1,903 +2.2 +1.8 +4.0 +3.4 -0.4 +3.0 +2.5 +1.5 +4.0 6.6 Bogdan Bogdanovic'18-'19 Kings SG, SF 1,947 +2.2 -0.3 +1.9 -0.6 +0.1 -0.5 +1.7 -0.2 +1.5 4.2 Bogdan Bogdanovic'19-'20 Kings SG 1,766 +1.9 -0.4 +1.5 +0.1 -0.3 -0.2 +1.6 -0.4 +1.2 3.6 Bogdan Bogdanovic'17-'18 Kings SG, SF 2,175 +0.9 -1.4 -0.4 -0.5 -2.7 -3.2 +0.8 -1.7 -0.9 2.0 Bogdan Bogdanovic'21-'22 Hawks SG, SF 780 +0.5 -1.9 -1.4 +0.5 -1.6 -1.1 +0.5 -1.9 -1.4 0.5 There was no player outside of Bogi last year who's played better with Trae that's a wing here than where they previously came from whereas almost every big had their best years in Atlanta. We will keep an eye on Cam Reddish who's a rotation player for us who's now in NY. Here is his current RAPTOR: BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Cam Reddish'20-'21 Hawks SF 842 -2.0 +0.6 -1.4 -2.7 -2.2 -4.9 -2.3 +0.1 -2.2 0.2 Cam Reddish'19-'20 Hawks SF 1,551 -3.3 0.0 -3.4 -0.7 -0.4 -1.1 -2.9 0.0 -3.0 -0.2 Cam Reddish'21-'22 Hawks SF 797 -1.3 -0.7 -1.9 -7.8 -4.2 -12.1 -2.8 -1.4 -4.1 -0.6 As far as PGs, there were many who qualified and if they did, they were either only qualified with the Hawks or old like Lou where including them when they are washed just defeats the propose. Delon Wright Normally, a very productive bench PG is completely neutralized in Atlanta. BOX SCORE RAPTOR ON/OFF RAPTOR OVERALL RAPTOR PLAYER TEAM POSITION(S) MINUTES OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. OFF. DEF. TOT. WAR Delon Wright'17-'18 Raptors PG 1,648 +1.8 +2.1 +3.9 -0.5 +2.1 +1.7 +1.4 +2.2 +3.6 5.4 Delon Wright'20-'21 Kings PG 1,748 +1.2 +1.9 +3.1 -0.5 +0.1 -0.4 +0.9 +1.7 +2.6 4.7 Delon Wright'18-'19 Grizzlies PG, SG 1,699 +1.0 +2.3 +3.3 -1.7 +0.4 -1.3 +0.5 +2.0 +2.5 4.5 Delon Wright'19-'20 Mavericks PG 1,623 +0.9 +0.4 +1.3 -1.8 +0.4 -1.4 +0.4 +0.4 +0.8 2.9 Delon Wright'16-'17 Raptors PG 538 +0.2 +3.2 +3.5 -2.6 +6.1 +3.5 -0.3 +4.0 +3.7 1.8 Delon Wright'21-'22 Hawks PG 614 -1.2 -0.3 -1.5 -2.3 +1.0 -1.3 -1.5 0.0 -1.6 0.4 What this tells me is, Trae generally get the best out of his bigs impact wise, while the wings get worse especially on defense and the PGs come to Atlanta to die. I am not sure if someone like Simmons is our best option moving forward. Simmons who's best used like this below and Trae, who best benefits bigs. The ideal fit is obviously KAT for us. Since he might not be available, what do we do? What do we do? It's clear we favor bigs but is JC or Clint good enough or do we need a guy? This is the conundrum of Trae. He might not be a puppet master like CP3 but if he does the same thing year after year, you don't expect teams to adjust and just like Coach Lucas said, play hard and we can do it. I am not an advocate to trade Young but I do think we need to look at what we does best and plug in like the Bulls did with Jordan. Trae has a specific game. It's not like building around LeBron where he can adjust or building around CP3 who's personality and style has to mesh. Trae gonna play Trae's game. We gotta build around it. What I like about Trae ball over say Harden ball (HOU) is while Harden ball made everyone around him better and this was under the old rules, they struggled to adjust in the playoffs when it matter most, mainly Harden. Whereas Trae ball adjust best in the playoffs. Sadly, the floor of Trae Ball is so low because it's big man based and it can have a low impact floor. Something Harden ball never has. My belief is in the bigs. Are Clint and JC good fits? I'll say they are but are the best you can do? That's a question I will guess till I can find a better deal on the market. As far as the wings, I am not sure it's a good idea too invest too much money into the wings. I'll invest where the impact is at it's highest for that said player. Trae is such a hard player to pair with wings. I am not sure what's the best type. I think it's 3&D wings but Snell's lack of impact says maybe not. You gotta do so much. You gotta protect him on defense. You gotta be able to PDS. You gotta be able to know you likely won't be in rhythm most of the time. He's kinda like Michael Jordan of his time. Krause figured out, with a lot of lottery picks how to build around MJ, we gotta do the same around Trae. He's just such a rare offensive talent but he needs the right pieces. This is a piggyback thread off this elite post from @niremetal This is my 2nd conundrum thread. The first was the Kent Bazemore conundrum.

Luka and Trae play the same style. The difference is Luka plays better off the ball offensively, he's much bigger, he plays much better defense especially team defense, he doesn't have the low floor within games Trae has, and he's a million times easier to build around as he doesn't require such special pieces around him to win games in this league. They are very easy to compare and Luka is definitely a better player. He might not have the highs Trae is capable of but he doesn't have no where near the same lows either. Atlanta fans will be bias as Dallas fans will be but it's obvious now that this deal was a mistake and it currently haunts the Hawks.

People don't want to hear it on here but this is basically what Trae is this year: Trae in the 1st to 3rd quarters is a combo of 4th quarter Trae And plays defense in the regular season of all quarters like an mini verison of this

That Luka trade will haunt Atlanta if changes aren't made.

Its like watching Bazemore or Josh Smith but those two couldn't shoot that well and they didn't live and die on the ball

Trae has a low impact floor. As great as he can be, he can be so bad to a team. Frustrating player.