Hawkmoor
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Posts posted by Hawkmoor
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From what i saw the last two games, i THINK that just MAYBE they do. Hawks didnt lose because of lack of rebounding, the knicks just look more TALENTED than the Hawks. To me, they CLEARLY have the better starting five. How is it that the Knicks went from the bottom of the Eastern Conference, to having a better roster than the team in the best record in the East, in ONE off season??? point guard, we have the edge, shooting guard, knicks all the way, small forward, knicks all the way, power forward, sap has come on hard, so i give the hawks the edge NOW. center, a push. the bench, knicks have the edge.
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8 hours ago, pimp said:
umm , i don't quite get that logic ...
me either.............
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19 minutes ago, LamarHampton said:
Sausage lips?
i caught that too..........
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Pero's max minutes last year destroys your argument.......................
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26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:
A 1st round pick, I rather keep Splitter than trade a 1st
If bud can trade a first for hardaway, he can trade a first for noah.
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On 12/30/2015 at 9:40 AM, macdaddy said:
I'm still believing that Hardaway will be in the rotation before it's all over. We need a scorer and Patterson isn't the answer.
I dont understand the criticism of Patterson. Dude looks alright to me everytime he is in the game.
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yet ANOTHER push to max out horford...................
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28 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:
Yes, the Joe Johnson signing set this team back a decade. All those All NBA players that were lining up outside of Phillips arena waiting for their max contract offer from the Hawks had to flock elsewhere. If we hadn't signed Joe we could have made a run at Dewayne Wade and Lebron James, two MUCH better options (and only better options) than Joe in 2010. Not only did we not get Wade or Bron but we also had to miss out on offering huge deals to such talents as David West and Derron Williams in 2011, and 2012, and instead had to suffer through two All star seasons from Joe and back to back top four finishes in the conference. Then we traded Joe away and got MIllsap and Korver with the capspace, another massive whiff since neither of those guys is a guy that can single-handedly carry a team to a championship. Yes the repercussions from that contract were catastrophic indeed. We fans can only ask ourselves when will the front office see the light and stop giving contracts to the best players available and instead hold out for hypothetical better players who may or may not become available or who may or may not have any interest whatsoever to play for us.
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19 hours ago, Lurker said:
Since I can't edit that, it was actually 20, but even then, only three plays at the most were ran for Horford to go inside and maybe two max were pnr as far as I can tell.
I was referring to the play after the timeout at the END of the game where they ran inside. I didnt see the whole game, so, i assumed bud was doing it all game. my bad.
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I dont know whats wrong with Korver, but it aint working. Dude needs to be the LAST 2 coming off the bench at this point......
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Brings that toughness that Sap needs besides him. I know he had issues, but toughness wasnt one of them. Hawks could sign him as a role player, because OBVIOUSLY, thats the route they going when they give Horford a max. I like this Hawks team, i really do, but they missing that ONE ingredient that gets you over in the playoffs, toughness.
I dont care about "system", Johnson would be in there just to bring toughness to the Hawks. Tired of seeing teams just disrespect the Hawks front court because they know its a FINESSE front court. Maybe another chance in the league would make Johnson more appreciate it and help his game. I wouldnt mind seeing him for 15 minutes a game WITH Sap and Horford on the court. I wouldnt care if Horford took shots from Half court as long as Sap has SOMEBODY helping him on the boards.
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12 hours ago, bumpyphish1 said:
I don't know how many players in the NBA one considers "elite"--it's a quite subjective term. Are there closer to 5 or closer to 20?
I can say unequivocally Al is a top 20 NBA player, one of the most versatile bigs in the game, and a player that every coach in the league would kill to have on their team.
He is a guy we re-sign whatever the cost. He's worth the max, but being he's a pretty good dude, he might take less so that we can add a little more around him.
30 points, 14 boards, and 5 3PT made on the road vs. Howard's Rockets. Top shelf timing on your thread, Lurker.
funny how Al looks better when the COACH runs plays where Horford finishes AT the basket like he did last night..........Bud did several things that i pointed out yesterday before the game: play tavares, run sets where Horford finishes at the rim. During the KEY bucket Horford made late in the game after a Hawk timeout, bud did exactly that........do it EVERY game and ditch the spread crap with Horford.
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59 minutes ago, benhillboy said:
Did anybody foolishly think we would get production from Splitter? I recognize he knows the system on both ends and it does pay dividends. But was expecting 8 and 8 from him that far off base?
His points and rebounds are lower than Pero's 2 year average of 6.3 and 3.5, strength and toughness level isn't even comparable. At 5.6 and 3.3 I almost had to do a double take and make sure I was reading the columns right. Those sound like our second round rookie guard's numbers, not a f&@kin former NBA champion who started next to Timmy.
whats troubling is, if splitter gonna average THAT, why not put tavares into the rotation and let him learn on the fly? sitting on the bench aint gonna do nothing for him.
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28 minutes ago, Lurker said:
Sigh, this is why I continue to say that solving the rebounding issue is not going to change much unless you get a talented wing player. The Korver situation needs to be fixed first.
rebounds are POSSESSIONS............
" i feel all great teams have two things in common, defense and rebounding. So, we stress defense and rebounding everyday as the most important aspects in the game to win. " LARRY BROWN
" the first shot does not beat you " CHUCK DALY
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28 minutes ago, NBASupes said:
They have LeBron and Kevin Love does have range.
we talking centers.............there are centers that rebound and block shots, the skillset that rodman brought to the table. lebron and love can MISS, and thompson and mosgov scoop up the rebounds. THATS the difference......
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1 minute ago, NBASupes said:
We would need more offense from him asince well as range
Cleveland's front line doesnt have range.........
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a dennis rodman LITE would be nice:
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6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:
You can make the comparison all day but Tim is one of the top 5 to 10 players in NBA history and Al is not. It doesn't mean Al is not elite but he's not Tim Duncan. Most NBA players aren't.
WHY is Duncan elite? I really wasnt comparing the PLAYERS, just the system, but if you REALLY look at it, Duncan excels because Pops uses his strengths. He keeps Duncan in a comfort range. Horford ISNT playing in his comfort range. Dude has been FORCED to play out of position his WHOLE career. Duncan is a 6 '11 power forward who gets to abuse other power forwards. Al is a 6'10 power forward who has to go up against guys who are bigger and taller than him on most nights.
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3 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:
There is NOTHING wrong with the system that tweaking wouldnt improve upon. I said in another post that Bud can tweak his sets so that Horford is finishing at the rim. Bud is taking Pop's sets, and instead of keeping Al near the paint like Pop does with his bigs, he obviously has Al floating out as a wing player, like he did with Pero.
Pop will have Duncan pick and STAY PUT, Bud will pick and " Pop ", ironic, lol. It will get you wins during the season, but in the playoffs, when teams run out and cover the wings, the Hawks only have Sap slicing to the basket. They need Al finishing the sets near the paint. That will spread the defense inside out instead of side to side like Bud prefers.....
Heres a example of what i mean. Here, the Spurs run a staggered Pick with Duncan. Look where he finishes:
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2 hours ago, Diesel said:
To add on to what @Wretch stated. I think failure brings about the want for us to revert back to a system that we know that we're not suited to run. i.e. Shooters surrounding an elite post player. That's not the system that Bud elects to play. Bud elects to play an amoeba-like offense where everybody works together. Not your normal motion or pick and roll or pick and pop although all of those can be used. His system is a flowing offense that allows anybody at anytime to be the man. When it wins and we dominate 6 teams in a row, we're all happy. When it fails because of too many turnovers or somebody having an off night... we're all damning the system. We are the same team that rattled off 19 in a row last year. We definitely are not the traditional basketball team and YES Al has been playing pansy-like because he doesn't want to get hurt. However, I'm not up for reverting. I see a Schuerholz type next man up minor league being built. I mean, what's not to like about Marcus Ericksson and Walter Edy Taverns. What's there not to like about having guys like Scott and Dennis off the bench. You're right, we have lost the me first mentality with most of our players. That's what Bud has built. Nothing elite but when they all work together and do their part, damn near unbeatable.
There is NOTHING wrong with the system that tweaking wouldnt improve upon. I said in another post that Bud can tweak his sets so that Horford is finishing at the rim. Bud is taking Pop's sets, and instead of keeping Al near the paint like Pop does with his bigs, he obviously has Al floating out as a wing player, like he did with Pero.
Pop will have Duncan pick and STAY PUT, Bud will pick and " Pop ", ironic, lol. It will get you wins during the season, but in the playoffs, when teams run out and cover the wings, the Hawks only have Sap slicing to the basket. They need Al finishing the sets near the paint. That will spread the defense inside out instead of side to side like Bud prefers.....
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4 hours ago, benhillboy said:
Al has his steadfast supporters, that won't change and it shouldn't.
I've forfeited to the fact (and obviously the coaches have too) that he feels he's owed a year of being injury free and a chance at his payday as thanks for all his years of service playing out of position. I don't like it one bit but to borrow the worst phrase ever created, "it is what it is."
He always had a similar skillset to Noah (when he was actually good a couple years ago) and Marc Gasol. A quick glance at The Ref will show them as the closest career comparisons, the most closely related factors likely being assists, win shares, and playing alongside pretty productive 4s throughout their careers. Problem is Al isn't nearly strong enough to anchor a defense to the tune of DPOY. On the flip side you can't facilitate through him because he can't handle like they can and now he's camped out at the arc.
I never was a fan of those guys, but even at their individual peaks they couldn't help carry their teams to the Finals and highly likely never will. Al is a role player. Absolutely the highest quality role player you could ever have in the NBA, but still, a role player.
A center shooting .309 on more three point attempts than free throws pulling down 7.0 boards a game simply isn't "elite."
He's a jack of all trades, master of none. That's a strength at the forward positions, but not at C. A True C defends the rim, fights for all possible boards, and shoots high percentage shots. That's it. That's how you have more than one monstrous performance in your career being dedicated to those three duties. Now your upper body being compromised through past injury preventing you from doing so is another issue that management needs to figure out real quick.
You'd never confuse Tim Duncan with an impressive physical specimen at the Center position yet he has more 28-15 performances in the Conference Finals and beyond than Al's entire career. Regarless of him playing 4 alongside whoever, he stayed in a Center's style of play. I'm just holding out hope that the staff has a grand scheme to move Al to 4 if they deem Paul undersized and overpriced. If this staff starts Edy out in the corners and shying away from contact I'm picketing outside Phillips with fervor.
you brought a tear to my eye................
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6 hours ago, Diesel said:
I don't disagree with a word that you have said. In fact, I have preached the same thing for years. However, just recently, I have evolved in my thinking about Al in this system. My thinking is and have always been that the skillset necessary to win is that you have shooters and you have a big who can man the boards, get the easy shots, and play defense. That's traditional basketball. However, I had to sit back and say to myself, "What is traditional about what Bud has done?" Honestly, Bud hasn't done anything in the traditional realm of Basketball so why should C play be any different? Maybe Bud wants 5 men on the perimeter and a team with no go to scorer? Maybe he believes that the ambiguity alone on the offensive end will give the other teams' defense fits. I mean, we have seen it work. Is it traditional? No... but if we wanted tradition, then we would have Lon Kruger or Mike Stotts in the HCing role.
I hate that Al is as soft as a Jelly roll... but that may be a part of the plan? So that whether we have Soft Al or Dikembe in the C position, it won't matter because our offense would be fluid?
Just saying it puts a bad taste in my mouth but I have to wait on the results before I fully critique?
" aint that what i tried to do???
lol.......... on a serious note, Al is a parodox, just like the lineups billy knight put together. Al is one of the MAJOR reasons the Hawks wins, but he is also THE reason they will not win a championship with him playing center.
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2 hours ago, Lurker said:
He actually got 10 boards tonight, but for me an elite player has to be able to take over games on the offensive end, and average more than 15 points and 6ish boards a game.
And I fully see why he wouldn't be able to average more anyway. The guy has no post moves so you have to get it in deep for him to be able to score, can't create off of the dribble, and his offense is purely the pnr and pnp.
Good player, but he is not elite at all.
but he can spread the floor.............thats all bud worried about.......
Do the Knicks have a better roster than the Hawks?
in Homecourt
Posted · Edited by Hawkmoor
problem IS...........they played like this AFTER the allstar break last year, all the way thru the playoffs. they havent looked like a contender since last year BEFORE the allstar break and EVERYBODY knows it. People were saying the SAME thing late last year, " relax". " they can turn it on ", etc. etc.