Wretch

14 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Maybe SA falls in love with someone and trades 4 and 8 to us

[deleted

[response to Supes inappropriate post removed]
*edit - this is also sarcasm, and not how I actually talk, for anybody that can't tell.

Just now, hawkman said:

I had a feeling as well. This still doesn't make up for the 2019 Lottery. 

13 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

There is NO WAY IN HELL that Oneyka Okongwu should stop any sort of deal that could possibly improve this roster.   

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

PREEEEEAAAACHHHH!!!! 

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not really a Bill Burr fan but I think this often.   These playoffs have done nothing to dispel this.

 

I try not to think about it, but I've suspected game rigging since I was a really young fan.  It was an open secret that they favored the stars with the broadcasters always saying things like, "<lesser known player> won't gonna get that call against MJ."  It's all about the momentum and I think they do what's necessary for the fan experience.  One thing I always look for is BS calls and their corresponding "make up" calls that even it all out in the end to sort of stem the absolute scrutiny.

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I get the idea around this, but this is also why we reacted and traded for DJM in the first place.  When Miami blitzed Trae in the playoffs, the Hawks didn't have an answer.  That Hawks team wasn't coached by Quin Snyder.  It was coached by Nate McMillan, who didn't have an answer for any problem.  

Trae is elite at creating scoring opportunities for his teammates, and Quin is an elite coach.  I don't worry about replacing Murray with another guard, and I give the secondary creation role to Jalen Johnson.  Give me a spot up catch and shoot guy who can defend at the shooting guard spot.  

+1000 to all of this.  The part in bold, I've been beating that drum for years now.

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

The real argument against him is one based on his value vs his salary expectations. THAT'S the reason we shouldn't trade for him. Not some bogus narrative that he'll refuse to take 3s. 

This is the only thing giving me any sort of pause.  It's natural to compare two wing players that excel in the midrange - especially both being long/tall for their position.  But they play two different games - scorer/facilitator vs. pure scorer.  It's a different fit.

Ultimately though, I doubt we would make any moves without the input of our coaching staff.  If they sign off on it, then that is good enough for me.

21 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

We get Herb Jones, Jarrett Allen and Smart I’m doing backflips.

I'm also a Jarrett Allen fan.

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Before I say this, I wanna be clear on some things.

1. I think Pat Riley is way past his expiration date as an exec.

2. I think Jimi is vastly overrated but is a useful, rotation player.

3. Riley is right in saying Jimi needs to shaddup if he's not playing. 

Ok, now that that's outta the way, would yall do a Jimi for Murray dealio?  As long as it doesn't cost us core pieces, considering Jimi is a free agent, iiuc.

And, yes, my motivation for this is to cause consternation for my heat fan BIL and @benhillboy, of course. 

Your thoughts. 

I wasn't a Butler fan before he got to Miami. I thought he was a locker room distraction with an inflated sense of self worth. I've since come to really appreciate him and his back story.

That said, I'm not interested in 35 year old Butler for DJ. It's intriguing in the short term, but that imminent over the hill drop is unappealing.

23 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

DJ needs to get stronger AND tougher.  DJ has only drawn 1 charge his entire career.  That's kind of incredible.  But it also shows that he does NOT like contact AT ALL on the court.  To get to that next level as a player, he can't shy away from contact.

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

I dont agree with all this, but it's well presented so you get a 'like'.

Interestingly, your first point correlates with the last.  Meaning, they can't treat Murray as a sacred cow.  If he can be moved to help move the team forward, IIWII, and it may be what's best for him to boot.

Ah well, I tend to think there's a path to improvement even with him on the roster.  So things aren't as dire as many folks here seem to believe. 

Agreed 1000%. I love everything about Murray except it doesn't appear that they fit. I think with a really good sniper or a really good big, it could work. Not with JUST him and Trae is the cornerstones tho.

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

I think @Wretch has a burner.  No way he can be this plugged in without being here more often than we know. 

Who you think it is?  Burd?  AH?  *gasp*  Is it you, squd? 

Nah. Check the bottom of the threads to see who's read when you're in here. I can almost guarantee you that my name will be there because I never close my browser.

My thoughts on how we got here and what went wrong...

Sacred Cows
This is another good time to repeat myself.  "Potential" has an expiration date.  You can't hold onto guys until they lose their potential value.  If we "get a good look" at them, then the whole world also gets a good look.  Same thing we did in the WLOC era. I have my favorites like everyone else, but at the end of the day...it's all negotiable.

2020 draft
I was hoping we'd move up or out of this draft.  I didn't like Ant Man's attitude, still don't.  However, if the opportunity was there to move up (which there were a lot of rumors about their interest in dealing the pick), I would have made the deal to move up and select LaMelo Ball in a heartbeat.  He was the player that I really wanted and was hoping we'd make that move.

Leaving the tank too soon (edit)
I don't know how this got deleted, but this is another big one and is self explanatory.  I was worried about appeasing Trae to build a "competitive" team...concerned that we might get stuck on a treadmill. The priority should have been asset acquisition.

Running it back
This is the one I'll go down with.  I thought bringing back the core was a no-brainer.  I thought we were really close.  I'll own that I was in alignment with that.  What I didn't anticipate was how well and how quickly the league adapted to Trae.  I mean, they straight up figured him out. Which is the next misstep...and probably the biggest to date.

Failure to adapt
It was really clear, and still very much is, that teams are not just going to allow Trae to PNR/dribble penetrate them to death.  Timely and efficient shooting/spacing/movement/stretching the floor was and will always be the key to unlocking what he does.  We took a step back giving Nate the team and took our time figuring that out.  I mean, we literally walked into that trap night in and night out.

We have taken WAY too long in constructing the supporting cast and system that a player like Trae needs - despite having laid it out for the front office year after year.

Murray
I will partially own alignment with this. He checked all the boxes except for one - 3pt shooting.  I was excited at the possibility of Trae and Murray playing off each other, but at the same time, I firmly believed the priority should have been getting a sniper opposite Trae at the 2 or 3 (or a big that would allow Trae to be that shooter).  I don't like that this hasn't worked as well as we all hoped, but I don't think any of us would be adverse to swapping Murray for equal talent at a different position.

I don't think all of the picks are a problem.  DJ is worth any lottery pick you could get in next year's draft...and probably the potential of two (with protection).  Beyond that is sketchy to be throwing out unprotected picks.

On 4/29/2024 at 12:40 AM, JTB said:

Maybe booker.

i can’t see them trading KD and I can’t see any team wanting Beal with that ridiculous contract. Beals output just isn’t good enough for what he gets paid. He may be the new Tobias Harris and I mean that respectfully.

I dunno man.  I heard on Hawksquawk for years how he was the best compliment for Trae.  Someone even said he was a DOG.

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That's only if the defense is super trash like the 80s Nuggets. Generally speaking, if you have an elite offense, your defense even with no defensive players should be below average at worst. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAC/2023.html

 

Seriously.  Playing defense is great and all, but there are possessions where you can do everything right and still get your ass busted. You're not going to stop a contender from scoring.  You must be able to respond on the other end.  Sometimes, very often when facing the best teams, offense will be the only defense you have.

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Elite offense helps defense.

Let me +1 this and add...

These things are not mutually exclusive and I don't know why we treat them as such - you can need to improve your offense while also needing to improve your defense.  Too often, we act like it's one or the other.  I agree 1000% with Supes and have held this opinion for a long time.  We are going nowhere without the ability to score when it counts.  If you can't do that, you're not a contender.

Thing is, it's difficult to find offensive difference makers.  For that reason alone, we have to prioritize building an offensive identity that works.  We can absolutely trade DJ and tune up the defense with all manner of complimentary role players.  At best, we would be what we have historically been - a hard working, "blue-collar", defensive team that wins around 45-50 games and getting bounced in the 1st or 2nd round.

This is a star driven league and you have to find at least 2 that compliment each other if you want any hope of building a contender.

I honestly don't know how to vote on this. I'm so torn. I would not trade Trae, and I don't want to trade DJ.

With a gun to my head, I suppose I would trade DJ...but the deal would have to be fantastic and I would still feel some kind of way.

I'm super anxious to see how this summer plays out.

I've watched more games these last 5-6 years than I ever have, but my interest has tailed off a bit this season.  Specifically near the end of the season when all the serious injuries hit.  Trade deadline was frustrating and you didn't miss anything there.  You didn't miss anything at the end of the season as things played out as expected with injuries and whatnot.

I would say that the biggest thing you've missed is Jalen Johnson coming into his own, but if you're like anyone who has paid attention to him...you knew it was coming to some extent.  Overall, I'm glad I tuned in and am ALWAYS grateful for the insight I get from the Squawk.  Regardless of what the Hawks are doing, I'll never stop reading these threads.

Good to see you popping in Sturt.

blah

On 4/6/2024 at 11:42 AM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

The greatest player prediction post of all time on Hawksquawk.  And said this before he played an official pre-season game.  Summer League sold me.

The second greatest player prediction, getting his opinion in for future reference:

On 8/17/2021 at 9:02 PM, Wretch said:

I'm glad this post is here...  One, so I can get my opinion recorded for future reference and two, because it validates how I felt watching him in Summer League.  And let me just say...holy sheeet.

Yes, it's summer league. 

Yes, he's young. 

Yes, we have a small sample size. 

I hear you guys and I respect the calls to temper our expectations...but the ol' eyeball test on JJ was something else. 

For a 19 year old, 6'9" 220lb wing/forward...with only 2tsp's of college ball on his resume...I didn't see a whole lot of flaws.  What I did see was a damn swiss army knife.  That kid can handle the ball.  He can pass the ball.  He can shoot the ball.  He can post up.  He can face up.  He's got dribble penetration.  He's athletic.  He's a rim runner.  He has tremendous energy and hustle.  He moves down the floor with a purpose and looks like he can effectively defend all 5 positions. 

It's hard trying to keep my enthusiasm in check because he just did everything well, every time he stepped on the court.  He consistently looked like the most talented player out there.  Not necessarily the best shooter or passer or even best scorer...but he looked like the guy with the most facets to his game and everything he did looked smooth and effortless and FAST.

Which is another thing: there was zero hesitation about any of it.  Just...ball got in his hands, he instantly went to work.  Ball went up...he was on the glass.  Ball came down, he was the first one down the court...or if he grabbed the rebound, he was pushing the break.  Or if he grabbed the rebound and there was a guard there, he'd take half a second to assess the defense and then the ball would be in the facilitator's hands.

I'm not going to call him the 2nd or 3rd most talented Hawk or the guy with the most potential, but if this skill translates and he improves...he's coming for somebody's minutes.  Which, honestly...  He's looking like a 3/4.  His frame looks like he'll put on some muscle and he's a mirror of JC's pre-draft measurements.  6'9" height...  6'11" wingspan...  220-ish lbs. (though I've seen him listed 220 in some places and 206 in others).

...and I'll get my own dang flowers...!  

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Still wrong .....you're just throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks, huh? ..

@Wretch. Come save your boy from himself please. 

18 hours ago, AHF said:

I think there would actually be more problems with a tournament approach to the lottery.  I can only imagine how the game would be called in a NY vs Atlanta matchup but if past is predicate we know Atlanta will get the short end of the stick.  (I'm not envisioning the league ordering a Sacramento / Lakers style debacle but more that certain teams, players, and cities are favored over others on a routine basis.)  

But I'm also someone who doesn't buy the idea that lottery is rigged.

You're 1000% right of course, but when I consider the idea that the game is being tilted towards players/markets/betting odds...it makes me sick to my stomach.  Consequently, I sort of suspend my disbelief in ref shenanigans.  It's hard for me to enjoy the game otherwise.  FWIW, I don't believe the whole of the lottery is rigged.  Especially now with the odds changes, I have a bit more faith in the system. 

Fun fact: I tried to hide that word from you specifically and you zeroed in on it like a Hawk! lol