Royjr9
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Posts posted by Royjr9
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2 hours ago, AHF said:
I have no inherent interest in seeing us lose games. The only interest in that is to the extent that presents our best path to a high lottery pick. I would have been thrilled to be able to trade two of Sap, Dwight and/or Horf (we only had 2 at any one time) for a #1 overall pick, #3 overall pick and the right to swap to get another #3 overall pick then tank for a year to start off with our own lottery pick and start building a solid but not great team to which we could add using those #1, #3 and #3 picks.
Problem was likely three-fold:
- We refused to trade Sap and Horford who had significant value.
- Dwight didn't have significant trade value (appears teams had to be paid to take him).
- Billy King is no longer a GM so there is no one who looks dumb enough to repeat that Nets deal
We should keep looking for opportunities to pick up lottery picks from other teams in steals like that but you have to be willing to trade people and have to find a dupe willing to play along.
People won’t admit it but #1 was especially the case for horford. If a guy tells you they plan to test free agency before the trade deadline you prolly should entertain trading them because at the end of the day they are looking out for the own best self interest. Which they very well should have. Milsap is trickier because he wanted to get paid and his age is very against him. But point remains trade em.
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1 hour ago, Diesel said:
It's funny how you ignore all the other teams that draft in the lottery continuously and never sniff the championship.. some never sniff the playoffs.
You say overwhelming evidence. That's funny.
Let's talk about overwhelming evidence that contributions vs. coincidence.
Just about every NBA team has a lottery pick on it. So, therefore, if a team makes it to the finals and even wins the finals, they fall into that category that the team with a lottery pick won a championship. Is that overwhelming evidence that contributes or is that a coincidence?
I say coincidence. IN fact, I started this thread by talking about all the times that we have had Lottery picks. I think it was like 9 or 10. Then I look at how many times we have won the championship during the lottery times (1985)... 0. How many times have we sniffed being championship calibre? (maybe 1). So what have all those years of lottery picks proven for us. Lottery picks without a plan moves you to mediocrity.
We also know that Young players don't win anything.
So the teams that win championships are teams that establish their young players with Vets who are worth a damn.
here's our catch 22 that none of the tankers seem to get...
We have never been good at attracting free agents so the only way that we can get said Vets who are worth a damn is by trade. However, we have a GM who has taken possible trade peices and traded them for Bubble gum. Literally bubble gum and told us that the fresh taste in our mouth is how championships are won. He has ZERO clue about FAcy in Atlanta. Moreover, he has just given FAs more reason to not come here after taking our hometown player and trading him for said bubblegum. After not offering our 3 time allstar a deal. Not one offer. What FA is going to look at us and say, they treat players the way I want to be treated? What Vet is going to say.. I really want to play beside Baze and Dennis?
So expect us to be in the lottery this year and unless we pipe the knee, we will be back to the teens in our picks (if our lottery player is good) or back in the lottery next year (if he's not). Either way.. 5 years before we reach upper mediocrity again.
Nobody is saying a young team will win it or is the end all. This is the reason you here embid publicly calling for LeBron to join them. The point is you have to have good to almost borderline great players that either guys want to play with or that you can sell somebody on to offer you something for said max guy for. Unfourtanetly you anti tankers are confusing the two. The truth is this is the hawks own doing yes we whiff badly on players even when winning we would take marginal guys at best (Jenkins) instead of taking guys like Middleton and draymond. Knowing good full well how those players would probably turnout. And often over judge talent on our own end prolly wasn’t wise to sign Bazemore to the 17 mill and escalating contract or maybe after trading korver go ahead and ship Paul instead of saying no we are completing now.
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50 minutes ago, Diesel said:
We've seen this plan before.
Childress, Smoove, Marvin, Shelden, & JJ. It didn't go anywhere and when it did.. Childress, Shelden were gone. Hawks fans think this will be a quick turn around. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but more than Likely, none of the guys we have now or in this draft will see us when we finally turn the corner.
Childress and Sheldon were bad picks, so was acie law and countless others. Many of them were flipped for players that helped the hawks get to the winning side of things. Marvin wasn’t a bad pick he just should not have been picked by the hawks.
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24 minutes ago, KB21 said:
Boston targeted players who were undervalued in the market and brought them in to win.
Schlenk targeted trash on the market and brought them in to lose.
Lol. Illy was traded for bud bud and Wes. He just resigned him in the hopes he could flip him. Dedmon has been great but prolly isn’t a long term answer. Belli was acquired along with plumlee in the Dwight trade who was bought in by bud and Wes. An unhappy Dwight which is where that was headed was moved. Schlenk did the best he could with what he had which was nothing.
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3 minutes ago, KB21 said:
On the contrary, Memphis is down because of injuries, and they will be adding a top pick to a team that has a healthy Marc Gasol and Mike Conley, two players who can show the young pups what it takes to win in the NBA.
With Travis's plan, the Hawks young players will have....each other....and will learn how to win from God knows who.
The hawks have cap space. Not everybody will be resigning with current team. Shift through some of that and you will run into some decent guys.
3 minutes ago, KB21 said:Boston used veterans to build it back up. Thomas, Crowder, Horford....all veterans, and all are the reason the Celtics only had the one down season. That's not a tank. Tanking teams blow things up and try to build with lottery picks.
Yet none of those guys are there now save for horford. Yes the traded for crowder and Isaiah on cheap deals that their teams realized was prolly going to be an overpay. Ironically Seems to me Boston did what Atlanta tried to do with bellineli and illysova. Teams just weren’t fooled because they are afterthoughts after the after thought. No shame in that and the hawks had to spend the money somewhere besides throwing it to a pf who is good but prolly will get worse in passing seasons.
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7 minutes ago, KB21 said:
The Hawks don't have a single player on the roster as good as Marc Gasol or Mike Conley.
Might be true but in the case of parsons and Conley if you can’t stay on the floor how good are you really. They did what you kinda envision. Shipped off zack, paid Conley and parsons way too much money and have an older Gasol sittin around getting older. Meaning the only way they can hope to improve is to tank.
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12 minutes ago, davis171 said:
What do you call trading away your core that made the playoffs the year before? Had they kept JT, KG and PP they probably would have made the playoffs.
Shipped em off for picks ironically that compromises there core now. Yeah they signed some free agents, but remember kyrie was supposedly trying to get to New York. They signed some veterans but depending on who you believe most only care about kyrie. Seeing horford as overpaid and Gordon as an incomplete cause of the injury. But long story short Boston tore down a playoff team and used draft picks to build it back up.
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20 minutes ago, JTB said:
Getting back on track....did anyone like what they saw from Porter Jr.?
I know he didn’t have the best game but he had a good +/- while on the floor.
Yeah he had a rough game but is rusty. But I can see why he’s in the lotto. I’m warm on him and since we may not be picking top 2 am currentlyu deciding between him, Jackson and bagley. His brother looks like a guy I’d like the hawks to think about.
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15 minutes ago, AHF said:
Here is where we left off on that roster building:
Roster Spots Salary 1 Dwight Howard $23,500,000 2 Paul Millsap $31,269,231 3 Kent Bazemore $16,910,113 4 Ersan Ilyasova $6,000,000 5 Jordan Bell $1,936,920 6 Juwan Evans $815,615 7 Dennis Schröder $15,500,000 8 Malcolm Delaney $2,500,000 9 Taurean Waller-Prince $2,422,560 10 DeAndre' Bembry $1,567,200 11 Mike Muscala $5,000,000 12 Thabo Sephalosha $5,250,000 13 14 15 Total: $112,671,639 I’m not sure what that team accomplishes maybe a 7 game series we eventually lose in the 1st round.
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3 hours ago, frosgrim said:
I agree with KB. Ayton has NO defensive instincts. Watch him play and it is tentative and fumbling. I get that folks are intrigued with the size, the shot, and just his appearance, but I just don't see anything on the court that screams next great center. I actually keep seeing another Thabeet in the guy.
Except thabeet had no offensive game so to speak of. If you see thabeet I’m not exactly sure what your looking at.
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4 minutes ago, Diesel said:
They got Wallace from us... they didn't draft him or any of their players. They got them all through trades. That's Antitank as a MFer.
You got to have something to trade for these players. Lord knows the stars are not knocking down the doors to get to Atlanta. And how do you acquire top talent. Tank like hell.
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7 minutes ago, Diesel said:
Not the bad boys. Wallace, Wallace, and the rest of that team that beat Shaq and Kobe.
Yeah but Rasheed was a former top 4 pick. The others I’m too lazy to look up but besides Wallace and prince they were reasonable. Funny thing is I would have prefer for the hawks to keep Sheed. Even though we were well off from winning. But just for giggles rip was drafted 7th, prince 23 Wallace undrafted. Billups was 3rd so in short history proves that if you are drafting at the top those guys will play for championships just maybe not you.
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9 hours ago, KB21 said:
It would be terrible defensively. Offensively, it could work if you buy into Ayton's shot, which I'm not sure I do at this point. That combo would be a damn tire fire defensively though.
Kids playing a lot of pf for Arizona next to a big man that makes him play off what would be his strengths. He will be fine. Plus I think bud could do wonders with him.
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48 minutes ago, KB21 said:
No, because Paul Millsap should have been resigned, period.
No he should not have been at least not for anything more than 22 mil.
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1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:
Just for kicks and giggles, here are the current Hawks by position, using the same NBA efficiency stat
Schröder: 12th
Bazemore: 17th
Prince: 24th
Dedmon: 22nd
Plumlee: 31st
Delaney: 62nd
Taylor: 75th
Collins: 20th
Muscala: 51st
Ilyasova: 34th
Belinelli: 41st
You forgot bembry lol
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23 minutes ago, KB21 said:
People who adopt the tanking strategy truly have no plan when it comes to roster building.
What? Clearly teams tank and have visions and thus build their team. You may not like how you got there but if from this draft Schlenk drafts or acquires guys because of this draft that propel this franchise forward are you really still gone to cry wolf because they tanked.
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34 minutes ago, KB21 said:
20-25 years ago, there might be more to this strategy to get you a good player. The reason why is because players were more ready to play and compete when they came into the league 20-25 years ago. There weren't any underdeveloped one and dones. The ones that were coming in out of high school were taken late or showed special enough skills to be taken high. The strangle hold AAU has on the players wasn't as strong back then as it is now. I mean, you will not see a draft today like the 1996 draft where Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Peja Stojakovic, Steve Nash, and Jermaine O'Neal were drafted along with Antoine Walker before he blew up. The drafts from back then skew the numbers for the pro tankers, because you simply do not see that or that type of early impact these days.
No it doesn’t. Going all in on Davis, embid type players is vastly different from going all in on , milsap horford, korver and anybody else from that team. Hate to break it to you but ferry was gonna tear that team apart he just didn’t get to finish what he started. Plus that 60 win team did play in a noticeable weaker east that year.
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2 minutes ago, jy23 said:
Let’s try this again...anybody wanna tell me a team that won a championship without lottery players? Then we can keep having this discussion. If not y’all are talking in circles for the hell of it
Just Detroit. But considering how they were built ie grant for Ben, rip for stack and Wallace for sura. Prince should have been a lottery pick at least top five but most people whiffed on him.
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3 minutes ago, KB21 said:
It's pretty much guaranteed that it will take 5 years to get back to the playoffs. Hell, the guy Atlanta drafts this year won't even be able to play winning basketball till his 3rd or 4th year in the league. That's how underdeveloped these overhyped 19 year olds are.
That’s not even remotely true. That’s an assumption. But like previously stated depends largely on who we take. I won’t say we will be as bad as we are this year but we will be better.
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35 minutes ago, KB21 said:
Whatever you need to do to convince yourself that bottoming the roster out and accepting 5 years of losing is what this team needs.
Lol. So paying a mediocre core and prolly the tax just to fight to make the playoffs or a 1st round exit. Yeah no. The hawks are on the right path at the moment. And I doubt it takes five years to. Get back to the playoffs.
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1 hour ago, AHF said:
Sadly, a lot of guys we really wanted went off the board before we could pick. Hoping to avoid that this season but it is becoming a more likely scenario that we see that repeat again.
Yeah I know what you mean.
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3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:
The Phoenix coach got 35 points out of TJ Warren! That dude can coach! Lol!
I’m not surprised warren was a decent player in fact I wanted the hawks to take him sadly he was teakettle before we got to pick.
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57 minutes ago, davis171 said:
https://heavy.com/sports/2018/03/nba-mock-draft-2018-ayton-luka-doncic/ Mock drafts taking notice of hawks recent upward swing has us drafting 6th ugly. Probably the guy I would take at 6 also in this scenario.
Truly. I would reach back and take Knox or carter jr. Knox profiles as a scorer. Carter a solid glue guy.
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33 minutes ago, AHF said:
I love a game where we play well and don't give up any ground in the lottery race.
All is right in the world again.
The Tank Thread
in Homecourt
Posted
I wasn’t around then but been a hawks fan and I can tell you I wanted any pg in the draft besides Tyrone lue garbage ass.they were flip for Cap space and future considerations which were bunged which allowed the hawks to acquire milsap and co. Mike Scott and co made some contributions but hardly moved the needle much for you and secondly.