thecampster

Ira,Strick,Hanno,Cal,JV gone will this affect us?* Oh my god, yes~! It's great. I'm a firm believer in stats/game. Most people say...well he only scored 3 ppg but he also played 10 minutes a game or if given 30 minutes, 9 ppg. So let's compare this years newly departed to last years casualties and base it on what they did per 48 minutes. Comparing points, rebounds, assists, steals and turnovers. Basing solely on last year's stats and not best season. (the "f" stands for full as in points per full game ppfg). Stats are per 48 minutes. Ratliff vs. Bowdler 15.3 ppfg, 9.3 rpfg, .53 apfg, .58 spfg, 4.1 topfg, 4.69 Blocks. .vs 9.35 ppfg, 9.4 rpfg, .85 apfg, 1.5 spfg, .89 topfg, 1.23 Blocks. Now given this wasn't Ratliff's best season (only 3 games) and his numbers from Philly were much higher. But safe to say, that Ratliff's 6 more points and 3.46 blocks makes Ratliff a clear winner here despite turnovers. Hendu vs. Hanno 16.28 ppfg, 10.95 rpfg, 1.18 apfg, 1.2 spfg, 2.4 topfg. vs. 13.79 ppfg, 9.48 rpfg, 1.72 apfg, .69 spfg, 2.44 topfg. except for 2.5 ppg and 1.5 rpg better for Henderson, they are identical. So henderson wins. Toni vs. Strickland 18.78 ppfg, 7.02 rpfg, 6.83 apfg, 1.54 spfg, 2.28 topfg. vs. 15.21 ppfg, 9.46 rpfg, 1.35 apfg, 1.39 spfg, 2.07 topfg. although he rebounds a little less, it seems obvious that with 3.57 more ppg and 5.48 apg, Toni is more productive. Crawford vs. IRA 19.51 ppfg, 9.24 rpfg, 1.8 apfg, 0.74 spfg, 3.67 topfg. vs. 12.67 ppfg, 8.40rpfg., 1.7 apfg, 1.43 spfg, 1.85 topfg. Crawford turns the ball over nearly 2 times more a game and IRA gets 3/4 of a steal more but Chris goes for 6.84 more points and . 84 more boards. slight edge Chris. Dion vs. Vaughn 20.38 ppfg, 7.10 rpfg, 3.44 apfg, 1.88 spfg, 3.16 topfg. vs. 14.02 ppfg, 4.25 rpfg, 9.13 apfg, 1.68 spfg, 2.91 topfg. I'd call this a tossup with Dion scoring more and rebounding more but vaughn with a ton more assists. That said, Dion's size makes for better overall defense. The totals. The wounded vs. the replacements 90.25 ppg, 43.61 rpg, 13.78 apg, 5.21 spg, 15.61 topg. vs. 65.04 ppg, 40.99 rpg, 14.75 apg, 5.69 spg, 10.16 topg. so 25.21 ppg, 2.62 rpg, -.97 apg, -.48 spg, 5.45 topg. I'd say we can afford to lose the others even with 5 more turnovers. Each steal, rebound and turnover are worth 1 point (since with 3 pointers, 40% fg% and freethrows, most teams average around 1 point per possesion and assists are worth 2. So the points add up like this. 25.21 + 2.62 + (-1.94) + (-.48) + (-5.45) = ppg lost to injuries. That's a difference of 19.96 ppg. Now the hawks lost 40 games by 20 points or less. So assuming the Hawks had these players all season and assuming the ppg changes would have changed the outcome of half of these games. That's 20 wins. Now I might be exaggerting the difference or I might not...but injuries kill seasons....Just ask sacramento if they would have liked to have had Pedra during the Lakers series. So the Hawks in my formula would have had 53 wins and 29 losses instead of 33 and 49 and the top seed in the EAST. The only problem here is DD is actually switching with JV so the assist number is skewed a little. but so what. This is a small vision of what the injuries cost us last year. Instead of Bowdler as the backup and Mohammed as the starter, we'd have had Ratliff start and Mohammed backup...that is where the numbers come from. So this shows the "Total cost of player over 48 minutes".

I hope this comes out o.k. put a family photo on my own webspace so I could link to it. http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/atl/d/a/...on%20family.jpg She ain't that bad...is she?

The question marks are Leon Smith. He's under contract and they haven't given up on him yet (though it ain't looking good). I'd do that trade in a New York minute and so would the Knicks, but I don't think Dallas would....someone would have to send them a future pick.

c'mon buddy, this is your chance. you signed up yet. you've obviously got tons of time on your hands here. prove you are wise beyond your years. Play fantasy football with real Hawks fans. If the other hawks fans are doing it, you should be too. just 2 spots left.

hey, I did my part....I referred "bulldogs"

This would be a great deal. Dumping the 3 mentioned players doesn't hurt us at all. CC at present doesn't have a spot in the rotation. Pippin replaces Kukoc and we sign Newble and Haslem to complete the roster. Haslem replacing Henderson (a huge upgrade in heart). We'd have JT/DJ/Pip/SAR/Theo to start and DD/DG/IRA/Haslem/Nazr off the bench with Emanuel Davis and Leon Smith as backups. We could cut Davis and sign Miles Simon. This works for me. Pippen is poorly used in Portland and still a quality player. He could play 2 years with us, retire and then move on. More importantly, look at that defense on the floor. Pippen, DJ and Theo on the floor all at once and JT is a much better defender at the PG than at SG. I'd do this deal in a heartbeat.

that's a dang good article.

I'm in, but 20 is too many. 16 is a better number of teams. Can you/will bring it down.? I've played in big leagues before and it's no fun at all. with 20 teams, some teams don't have 1 more or less 2 number one backs or receivers and it's awful when those teams have a bye.

So here's my question. Let's pretend the Hawks drafted a small forward this year. He was a junior in college who left school early. His first taste of pro basketball was to play in the Shaw summer league. Over 6 games here's his line. In 28.8 minutes, he averaged 13.8 pts, 4.5 rebounds, 1.3 assists and 1 steal. He was asked to be the 3rd option at ball handler and guard the best scorer of the other teams P.G., S.G. or Small Forward. How would you rate his performance. Most G.M's would pat themselves on the back for finding a quality 3 in the draft. That player gentlemen is DeMarr Johnson. The only difference is that instead of Playing 32 minutes a night for Cincinatti the last 2 years taking 25 shots a game, he's been playing 24 minutes a game for us and taking 10 shots a game. Before anyone goes icky balooky and states Dion is better than Demarr let's remember 3 important things. 1. The offense was running through Dion at the summer league as the Hawks were trying to showcase him for trade bait. 2. DeMarr was playing the 3 and Dion the 2. So height and weight matchups were greatly in Dion's favor. 3. Much of the summer league games are about transition basketball and not offensive sets. Meaning that the 1 and 2 guard get a great many more opportunities to go to the basket. Now remembering that Dickau is actually a year older than Demarr let's look at his line. In 5 less minutes a game, he scored 5 less points, had 2 less rebounds and 4 more assists. The stat line is very compatible. Why these writers (and people on these boards) expect him to be the next coming of MJ or to put up 20 a game I don't know. Probably the same people who said the Manning for Nique trade was a good idea. Give him 2 more years and he will be putting up 20 a game. Don't rush the kid. And David Aldridge is a horse's rear.

once again I must chime in. I found the job Lon did last year admirable at the least. Ratliff, Henderson, Kukoc, Crawford, Dion, Davis and Vaughn all missed substantial time last year. Not one of those guys is a superstar, but even L.A. would dump their bench to add those 7 healthy. 319 player games lost to injury. That's just under 4 a game or 1/3 of the team. Now, who does this remind me of. The San Antonio Spurs of 96-97. David Robinson and Sean Elliot Go down for the season. Various other players in the rotation are all out from time to time. How did they do? Poorly enough to land Tim Duncan with the top pick in the draft. Lon won over 30 games with what? 2 starting guards under 6-2. An underweight 6-9 small forward who should've been a junior in College and another small forward who was exiled to the CBA....a throw away backup center from Philly and SAR. and he won 40% of his games. My god, Hanno and Bowdler were a real part of the rotation. Toni's feet hurt so bad he couldn't cut or shoot real jumpers. Henderson was 15 pounds heavier when he came back because he couldn't do cardio while injured and we still won 33 games. Lon Should've been coach of the year last year. He didn't have a consistent game plan because he didn't have consistent game on the floor. Kudos for being flexible and trying to win with what he had left. If, and this is a big if, the hawks can limit the injuries....specifically to J.T., SAR and Theo...all 3 are the core of the team as built and the Hawks commit to a lineup as such, JT/Dion/DJ/SAR/Theo starting with DD/IRA/Toni/Hendu/Nazr backing them up and Crawford mending on the bench with Haslem or Smith as the 12th man, then they are legit contenders for the E.C. Take a look at it logically. The only place we're small is Center. But dang that team can run and shoot. I honestly hate all the trade talk right now. I hate people questioning the long term plan. For the first time in years (fratello days) we have a long term plan. Salary cap room on the way and a deep bench. Players that can step on your chest and dunk. A real 5 man transition game and backups that can shoot from outside. Injuries killed the Hawks last year, but it also made them better...much better. Tons of playing time for Nazi, DJ and crew. What did Lon do best last year? He didn't panic, throw in the towel, or turn on his players (ala Tim Floyd or Larry Brown). Give him time. Just like the Spurs, the best thing to happen to the Hawks were all the injuries. Now they're in a spot to compete. O.K.....Back off the soap box. Now on to Diesel, BlackHawkDown and Hawksfreak. I must applaud Diesel for his effort on his trade ideas. Though I don't agree with his insistence to upgrade through trades (I believe in building through scouting, drafting and coaching...but I'm patient), give the guy props for effort and research. Buddy, put some of that effort into keeping our players healthy and I'm on the bandwagon. BHD, I feel you brother. But cut the Euro's a little slack. I agree they are way over valued but a little Euro here or there on your squad as a spot up shooter is a good thing. Most Euro's bring a more fundementally sound (albeit boring) game and can't help but push the real talented kids of todays game to be more rounded players...but your right, I hate hearing, "and SLitsuSIcOv passes to irkviken mein Heiney in the Corner"....perhaps they should adopt XFL names if their gonna play here like, "He can't pronounce me" or "Just call me ski" Hawksfreak....you're improving buddy, but a quick etiquette lesson. Don't ask repeatedly if everyone likes your articles. Just look at how ofter they're read or responded to and you'll know. Asking for acceptance is a huge sign of immaturity. Lay low and you'll get more acceptance. And don't send another 4 letter word laced pm to me...it's juvenile.

Diesel, I get why LA does there deal. Why would Houston do there's?

Let me put this to rest right now. Hawksfreak....stop it, right now. I'm a network admin. an MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer). Let me explain remote access to you. In order for you to be on the internet right now, you'd need an internal modem for you laptop, with a wireless adapter or option...That would cost a couple hundred extra bucks. Possible, but here's the 2 part problem with what you're saying. You'd A. have to be able to get a solid cell connection to communicate via modem....much better than basic voice communication. Very doubtful in "the clark atheletic center". but possible. You see, a laptop cellular modem has a B. 2 and this is where you'll have issues. A cell dialer won't charge you long distance to dial a local connection in atlanta so yes you'll have the same I.P. as if you dialed at home...bravo but won't you won't have is resources...2 specific resources. Resource 1.....a free IRQ. The chances of you having 2 modems in the laptop with a free IRQ for both are worse than your chances of getting on a flight by yourself with hotel accomodations overnight. I'd explain but let's not get into details. I've read most of your "insider info" and most of it comes from www.nba.com/hawks from the q and a with babbs. Now, let me explain this last thing to you. Corporate executives of professional sports franchises worth over $400 million dollars whose very livelyhood depends on not releasing information until the ownership and league authorize it don't spend their free time bouncing trade ideas off 12 year olds. They don't lament salary cap issues to prepubecent youths that spout off on internet message boards....ever. I greatly appreciate your enthusiasm but if for any reason you feel the need to waste my time with nonsense posts and outright lies while I'm trying to learn more about the hometown team, go away and shut up. If you would like to post positive information and add genuine "OPINION" to the discussion then by all means chat away. I have a son just a little older than you and understand where you're coming from. Now understand where I'm coming from. It's annoying.

still waiting for the game story, but Udonis Haslem seems to have had a good day in his pro debut. According to the story at www.nba.com/hawks he wen't for 12 points and 13 rebounds in the first summer league game. That's 13 rebounds....that's alot in any league against any level of competition. FYI-Glover went for 21 points. They're obviously showcasing him to help up his trade value.

Diesel...I like this. But you don't wan't Oakley at his age and I'd rather have Miles Simon than Carr....how about this group instead. JT/DD Penny/Glover/Simon DJ/Toni/Ira SAR/Haslem Theo/Nazr You swing that and I'm onboard. I'd greatly prefer this trade option as opposed to the last couple you've dished....this one works great for both squads. and as far as Penny liking to post, that'd be great as he can pass out of the post to SAR, JT, DJ or DD for the open look and having dragged the defensive shooting guard out of the play.

Actually, the 3 of them are making 12.2 million combined (check insidehoops.com) this year. Robinson will make right at 10 mil. So the deal is about 1.2 million apart. So Milwaukee throws in a scrub at 1.5 ish million or a player at 3.5 million or less (ala Greg Anthony) and this could work. We could throw in a 2nd rounder to sweeten if necessary. I'd do it to free us of the long term ramifications of Hendu's salary. Robinson could be tradable in 2 years...Hendu will be untradable and Milwaukee would go for it. With Terry moving to the point, this gives us the extra scoring option needed and more importantly, keeps defenses from collapsing on SAR. They'd have to respect Glen's outside game. As for Miller....good question. He's a smart team player but I don't see him sticking around long. He'll command salary later and we won't be able to keep him around and JT and SAR. Numbers game. The veteran is already locked in long term (B dog). His salary won't seem as big by the time his contract runs out, but Miller may command alot in 2 years.

Just a question guys. I would consider myself a basketball guy, but don't bother myself with the salary cap or details of this. But one thing is sticking in my mind. Milwaukee wants to trade Glenn Robinson. They're looking for a more balanced offensive game and feel they've got too many shooters and not enough inside. They're tired of him and would probably believe in addition by subtraction. We need to dump a player or two. Would Glover + Hendu + Nazr and 1st rounder get em? Just wondering. I think the math is close on this one. That'd give us a lineup of: JT - DJ - Robinson - SAR - Ratliff DD - Newble - Kukoc - Crawford - Leon Smith as backups Hanno and email as bench warmers. any tweaking? So the deal would be: Dion Glover, Alan Henderson, Nazr Mohammed and a conditional 1st rounder 4 Glen Robinsion Someone look up the salaries if you can?

this is the worst trade I've seen yet. don't quit your day job. Battie is not good enough to put on the floor more than 5 minutes a game. But let's pretend you trade him even up for the 1st round pick. That would leave Theo and JT for Pierce. While I admit Pierce is a heckuva player, He is not worth both JT and Theo.....Try again. Theo straight up for Walker I'd consider.

Well, I was once again trying to remain quiet but felt I should chime in. The Hawks with a healthy season are better that 38-40 wins. they play in the east...that's number one. Rotations. Blackhawk...you seem to know ball so I'd think you know this. Rotations are everything in basketball. Without a viable point guard until they moved J.T., the hawks couldn't rotate the 2-3-4 positions on and off the floor and move in a replacement point and Center. Anyone that knows basketball would know that the best possible rotation is an 8 man rotation. the backups should be a 1, flexible up or down 3 and a 5. By adding Theo to the mix, Here is my assessment of the starting 5 and then the replacements. JT - PG DJ - SG Toni - SF (could be Newble/CC or glover here but I still like toni) SAR - PF Theo - C Toni moves up or down when his replacement (Probably newble) is in the game with him to spell the 2 or 4 and is out when they are in. Dickau is a quality backup to spell JT for 8 to 10 a game. Mohammed spells Theo/Sar Now Henderson and Glover or even CC are also capable backups in this scenario but only in stretches. The problem is that without Theo, this lineup dies. Not because he's the second coming, but because of what it does to our second unit to move Nazr forward. Pretend if you will, that JT and SAR are both on the bench. You have DD, DJ, Toni, Newble and Ratliff on the floor and you have Nazr at the scorer's table ready to check in. This is an acceptable group to have on the floor...not great but it will hold off the charge while the stars are regrouping and let them get enough rest between quarters. But let Theo get hurt and the rotations change. Now the lineup is the same but with Nazr on the floor and Henderson at the table coming in for Nazr. In order to play defense when he comes in, they have to switch to a cover zone with Guards dropping down to give Henderson (or an inexperienced Leon Smith) help in the blocks and freeing up jump shooters. So instead of a 5 minute breather, SAR and Terry get 3 and come the 4th quarter they're lagging. Ratliff matters Tons....Tons.

who disrespected the gators....I just personally can't root for em'....I live 30 miles from Athens. But Haslem is a stud. He's a 1 year bench player to learn the NBA game and become familiar in PF block....but after that....he should be coming off someone's bench. That guy is a load. Reminds me alot of Charles Oakley in his youth. A banger with a body.

actually, Udonis Haslem was a wasted talent on the Gators. He is a solid NBA Power Forward. Would be a quality backup at worst. I hate the gators and loved that guy. If only NBA rules were simple enough to let you cut the excess baggage (Davis, mottola, etc) without salary cap hits. I'm under the impression though that Ratliff was going to play in the summer league. from the July 2nd Q. A. with Babs, here was his response. Ask the Hawks GM - July 2 Q - "Who will recieve the majority of the playing time at the small foward position this coming season? Will it be split between Dermarr and Toni? As of now, who would be the starter? Also, will DerMarr play in the summer league and could that have an impact on his role this year? I want to commend the Hawks on what I consider their third consecutive successful draft. I forsee Dickau as a fixture in our lineup for years to come and David Anderson as a player who could blossom into a solid big man in the NBA. The only player who I would have rather seen taken would have been Grizzard. What was the deciding factor in passing on Grizzard in the second round? On a side note, I was a big fan of Smush Parker. How do you think he will fare as an undrafted free agent?" -- Michael Rice A - Thank you for your comments. DJ will compete for time at big guard and small forward with Glover, Kukoc, Crawford and Newble at this point....barring any trade that might occur before we start the season. DJ, Crawford, Glover, Ratliff and Dickau are planning to play in the summer league. We passed on Grizzard due to our full roster and his injury. We will have 12 players if we re-sign Newble and we needed to select a player who would not come over this year to play. Also, our doctors felt that Grizzard will miss about 6 months and we need 12 healthy bodies this season after last year's struggles with injuries. Thanks for your interest. So Demarr, Chris Crawford, Dion Glover, Dickau and Ratliff. Anyone know if this has changed and what is that source of knowledge?

nope...he'll go top 3 unless injured.....next years college class is weak.

sorry, meant playing against oak hill academy. he plays for St vincent-St mary's. Oak hill had 8 division-1 recruits....St. Vincent - St Mary's...2...10 division 1 recruits in the same game. Not spoiled little rich kids. and the stats are exactly the point....the games are typically only 40 minutes and the players usually only play 30 ish minutes a game. He's the real deal.

This is all you need to know about Lebron James. The Numbers: Averaged 25.2 points, 7.2 rebounds, 5.8 assists and 3.8 steals per game last season. He's 6'7" and 215. More important than anything is the 3.8 steals a game.....Not only does he have Kobe like offensive skills, he already plays solid D. Beat Lenny Cooke one on one. Playing at Oakhill academy is the rest. You don't go there unless you're real good and he's dominating.

Snaggle, where did you hear that? What reliable source? As I understand it, he was at the voluntary workouts with the rest of the team and is scheduled to play in the summer league. A journalist or just inside stuff...from whom?

I've been reading the board for a little while now and have put off posting till now. I just couldn't take it anymore. Hanno is awful. A waste of bobo shorts. He's slow...number one problem...slow. He gets caught out of defensive position on half the possesions going his way. He falls for a shoulder fake left everytime and then gets caught when the opposing player goes right. His benefit to the hawks is only 2 fold. He'll set picks for JT and hand towels to Shareef. Anyone who thinks it's a better long term solution to keep Hanno over Leon is smoking outback with Mookie Blaylock. In an earlier post someone mentioned him in comparison to bringing the same things to the table CC does. One problem...CC can jump. Is he TMac? No! but at least CC doesn't get in the way of his own point guard and moves without the ball. Anyway, Glad to be here.