thecampster

Kemp and Roberts are the 2 names I've mentioned in the past, they are the names just brought up earlier in this thread and they're the same names I'm mentioning now. Either can give us what ekenzie was giving us and more. When I mentioned Kemp before the season started everyone was screaming, no....we need guards, more guards and There's no way he'll sign for the vet minimum. Well, he hasn't been signed by anyone, and we get our collective rears kicked on the boards every night. Beat like a drum inside. Wake up people, your starting PG and SG are averaging over 10 rebounds a game. 10 boards from the guards. Is it because they're really tall, hardly...it's because our big guys are way undersized and need the help and it's killing the fast break. Trade Ratliff and Henderson to Portland for Rasheed and Sign Stanley Roberts to play center...Then line up JT, Glover, Wallace, SAR and Roberts. Backup with JV, Jackson, Diaw, Nailon, Nazr. Another guard (no harm meant to Parker) is not what we need.

Which is why Diesel I said we don't trade Reef. Reef is producing for his money. Henderson, Ratliff, Dickau are not but packaging Henderson with Ratliff makes them a tradable commodity to someone with 1 bad attitude with an expiring contract...sheed. If he doesn't resign, so what. The cap is free 1 year early. Packaging Dickau with Nazr and a protected pick makes him tradable. That's 3 bad contracts gone if we do it right and 1 in return expires in a year and we get bigger by adding Brown and Haywood. Do you honestly think neither team would consider either trade? Trading SAR gets you no where the return of what he's giving you. You won't get high picks and you won't get back a scoring big man of which these are our 2 needs.

We have over 17.7 million a season locked up in Alan Henderson and Theo Ratliff. That's too much for a center averaging 7 points and a perennial injury fiend. SAR is not the problem, JT is not the problem. I've been saying all along, Bad salaries for small big men is. Here's my solution. We must move either and or Ratliff and Henderson. Utah comes to mind as a player that needs a center and or more salary. And or find a team that needs good citizens and wants to move distraction citizens. Portland (Rasheed), Chicago, (Rose/Marshall), Washington (Brown) come to mind. I would move Theo and Henderson (when healthy) to Portland for Rasheed Wallace. Before you say they won't do it, remember what a pain Sheed has been for them and the emergence of Randolph. Doing this means no more double/triples for SAR. Atlanta trades: C Theo Ratliff (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 31.4 minutes) C Alan Henderson (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 31.4 minutes) Atlanta receives: SF Rasheed Wallace (18.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.3 minutes) Change in team outlook: +11.1 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and +2.1 apg. Portland trades: SF Rasheed Wallace (18.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 40.3 minutes) Portland receives: C Theo Ratliff (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 11 games) C Alan Henderson (7.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 11 games) Change in team outlook: -11.1 ppg, -0.3 rpg, and -2.1 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Atlanta and Portland being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Portland had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Then send Nazr Mohammed and Dan Dickau and a conditional 1st to Washington for Kwame Brown and Brendan Haywood. Atlanta trades: PG Dan Dickau (0.0 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 2.5 minutes) C Nazr Mohammed (6.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.0 minutes) Atlanta receives: C Brendan Haywood (3.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.7 minutes) PF Kwame Brown (6.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +3.7 ppg, +5.5 rpg, and +0.3 apg. Washington trades: C Brendan Haywood (3.0 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.7 minutes) PF Kwame Brown (6.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.7 apg in 27.5 minutes) Washington receives: PG Dan Dickau (0.0 ppg, 0.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 2 games) C Nazr Mohammed (6.0 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11 games) Change in team outlook: -3.7 ppg, -5.5 rpg, and -0.3 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Atlanta and Washington being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Washington had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Change in Team Starters JT Dion SAR Rasheed Brown Second unit JV SJax Diaw Nailon Haywood Hansen, Crawford on the bench. Brandon, Ekezie on IR. Yes, I believe both deals are probably and that both groups are better offensive and defensive units. Now do we have the nads to do it? That's the question.

Does this sound like any campster we know stating in the post season that we didn't need another swing guard but instead needed a bigger player...hmmm Stanley Roberts, Alvin Jones are still out there.....We could still use SJax off the bench and move SARdown to the 3, Theo to the 4 and Start Roberts at the 5. Or Let Jones play backup 4/5 and Let Nazr start at center, theo 4/ Sar 3 If not, teams like memphis and lakers with big men are gonna kill us.

This is a question I've been asking since DeMarr was not resigned. Now I feel i can articulate it better. Jackson is averaging 16.3 points, 4.3 rebounds, 2.9 assists in 38.6 minutes a game. Also, 1.6 steals, only .1 blocks and a whopping 3.0 turnovers a game (that's .7 more than the supposedly bad handled Dion and with .1 less assists, and 1 less board than Dion) That said, would a healthy DeMarr at 1 mil a year been a better investment. Would/could demarr be more efficient and a better defender...at least a better care taker of the ball?

What we need is an all around player here. Somewhat of a star, get it done guy. Not a superstar but let's see, someone who could get 15 points and say 6 boards and 3.5 assists per game from the shooting guard spot...oh wait, we have one. here's the stat line for Dion in the first 4 games. 15 points, 6 boards, 3.5 assists, 1.3 steals, .3 blocks, 2.5 fouls and 3 turnovers. Shooting percentage is down (34.3 %) but that is due in large part to him takeing 15 3's already and only making 4 and to him going to the basket too much (since Terry and Jackson aren't penetrating. One many of his misses on offense he's going to the freethrow line instead. Dion is not and will not ever be a problem. Last year he got 25 minutes a game. These averages are in line with what he did last year per MINUTE. The only difference is his shooting percentages are down..those will improve, it always equals out. If his percentages improve to last year's numbers, and he keeps getting 35-39 minutes a game he'll actually go up by 3 or 4 points a game. 19,6,3.5 from a shooting guard is bench reserve all star numbers guys. Now the best thing about last night's game is this. Terry saw that he doesn't have to be mini Jordan for this team to win. And let's face it, that's how he plays. He tries to be the 6 foot incarnation of Vince Carter. His handles, his skills, his intensity are all good, but his self image is all wrong. Instead of trying to be Vince or Micheal or His own image of JT, Jason should look to another great of MJ's generation and emulate him. Isiah Thomas. In Isiah's career averages you see alot of JT. 19.2 points, 3.6 reb 1.9 steals, .25 blocks, .759 FT %, .452 FG %, 9.3 assists. Terry last year. 17.2 points, 3.4 reb, 1.56 steals, .17 blks, .835 FG%. .430 FG%, 7.4 assists. What's the difference, virtually nothing. Both are 6'1", 180 exactly. (though terry's bio says 6'2"). Rebounds and steals are virtually identical and Terry's boards, blocks and steals were up this year and his scoring is up to 22.7...what's the difference. Assists. so far this year his assists are down to 6.3 a game. And I'll tell you why...his eyes. Watch film of Isiah and you'll see his eyes go up and scan the floor, even when pressured before he hit's the half court line. He's looking at the other 9 people on the floor and looking at everyone else's lanes to the basket. Terry picks up his eye's (especially under pressure) just after the half court line and his first glance is always the front of the rim (ala Michael and Vince)... Jason is far too good a talent to let go, but perhaps last nights game will help him see who he should want to be like. Not Mike, but Isiah. Thomas has a gift wrapped invite to the hall of fame and it was for looking at offensive players far inferior to himself on the court. John Salley and Bill Lambeer. If Jason will pick up his eyes a little, Vaughn can hopefully come off the bench where he belongs and hopefully last nights game showed JT that.

If we are learning anything from this game it's this. We don't have a center. We have a pretty decent power forward in..............Theo, and no center. Chandler grabbed 9, count em, 9 offensive rebounds. That's offensive alright. I'm stepping up and saying it now. Freaking sign Stanley Roberts now. Sign Roberts, Move Theo to PF and Reef to SF. Let Jackson and Nazr be the 6th and 7th men. That was freaking embarassing. 22 boards, 9 offensive.

and then the wheels come off. 15 turnovers thru 3 .vs only 5 for the hornets.

Today, the Toronto Raptors released "Stanley Roberts". Roberts never joined the team for camp, but instead stayed in Florida for private workouts. The team didn't have room for him but kept him the whole time trying to figure something out. Here is another 7 footer (290 lbs). I just have to wonder if the Hawks will wise up and dump a player on a needy team to make room for a big body. What would it hurt at this point to make a 2 for 1 trade (creative way to move Crawford and a player for someone else's extra back up trouble point guard (cough stouda..cough mire..cough) and sign Roberts as the backup Center for size. Atlanta trades: PF Alan Henderson (4.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.2 minutes) PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.6 minutes) Atlanta receives: PG Damon Stoudamire (6.9 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.5 apg in 22.3 minutes) Change in team outlook: -2.7 ppg, -3.6 rpg, and +2.8 apg. Portland trades: PG Damon Stoudamire (6.9 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.5 apg in 22.3 minutes) Portland receives: PF Alan Henderson (4.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 0.5 apg in 82 games) PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5 games) Change in team outlook: +2.7 ppg, +3.6 rpg, and -2.8 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Atlanta and Portland being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Atlanta and Portland had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Terry, Glover, Jackson, SAR, Ratliff Stoudamire, Diaw, Nailon, Nazr, Roberts JV, Hansen, DD (IL)

Exactly. Size is everything (as shown by ekenzie). The east is small and I think bringing in a 7 footer to play backup Center is just what we need.

And we "NEED" to pick him up. Collier has been in no win situations since entering the league but let's take a look at the player. He's 7'0" 260 lbs which is bigger than anyone on our current roster. His best game last year was a 20 minute performance at Cleveland where he went for 11 points and 8 rebounds. He appeared in only 13 games seeing a total of 104 minutes. Why, Yao and other more seasoned in front of him. At Georgia Tech, he average 17 points and 8 rebounds his last 2 seasons. He's only 26. We need a big body. Although never asked to shoot outside, shot 37% from the college 3 point line. I'm not saying make him the center of the future, but he'll sign for the minimum (especially to come back to the ATL) and is a better use of money than a number of players fighting for spots right now. According to realgm, the players under guaranteed contract are: SAR, Ratliff, Henderson, Nazr, Crawford Terry, Jackson, Diaw, Glover, Dickau, Vaughn, Nailon, Hansen That's 13 but I'm not sure if Nailon or Hansen's contracts are guaranteed. Cut 1 player, stash one on the IR (probably henderson with his bad back) and you can sign Collier. I hate how we're going into the season so small. If either Theo or Nazr the steel foot go down for any time, we're stuck with Henderson at center again.

Before the draft I was screaming for the Hawks to move up and get Hayes. It would've taken this year's and (a protected) future 1st, but wouldn't Jarvis' 20 points, better defense and better ball handling (than Robinson) look real good right now. I'm not afraid, Robinson was a problem. Maybe not "the problem" but a problem. And I like the guy. He's a great fit in Philly and I for one was trumpeting his coming here but he just didn't fit. Crowded lanes, leaving the backdoor vulnerable, bad handles in the open court, one too few passes in the half court. He'll be great for philly, just not us. The Bulls. Anyone who doesn't see the Bulls making giant strides this year is crazy....some stats. Tyson Chandler - Feb 12th - Mar 29 th inserted as starter and averaged. 13 pts, 10.5 rebounds, 2 blocks. Ed Curry - last 20 games made starter, averaged 19.45 pts, 7 rebounds, 1 block. Jamal Crawford - starter last 22 games. averaged 18.5 points, 3.36 boards, 6.63 assists. Jalen Rose - started every game, averaged 22 points, 4 board, 5 assists. That's 4 starters averaging 73 points, 25 rebounds, over 14 assists and 4 blocks a game (to end the year) and they just added Scottie Pippen to that Mix. If healthy, they may win 50 games...remember you heard it here first. They are all a year older, bigger, stronger and tired of losing. This team was good the last 20 last year and will be better. I think they could get the 4th seed. I'm not making this up...4th seed. I think Boston performed addition by subtraction. Not because Walker was a bad guy...not hardly. Just too much of the same. They got a big body they desparately needed. Ny won't be as bad as everyone thinks. Starting lineup before McDyess returns (I say around Jan 15th). pg - Charlie Ward SG - Allan Houston SF - Keith Van Horn or Shandon Anderson PF - Keith Van Horn or Kurt Thomas C - Mutombo Mutombo had 6 points, 7 boards and 3 blocks in 22 minutes the other night. He will start. That ain't bad guys, but if and when McDyess comes back it's ward, houston, Van Horn, McDyess, Mutombo. That's a lot better and bigger than most teams in the east. As for us, I'd like us a whole lot better with a healthy Crawford, Henderson and a Big banger...but that's just me.

No, another point guard isn't the problem. If we learned anything about ourselves through O.E. it's that this team is starved for an inside presence. If you give up an easy basket, then have to take the ball out, the other team has time to set up it's defense..ie..turnovers from the press. But rebound the ball and create a physical presence inside and you instead create more fast break opportunities (easy baskets) and make for less traffic to dribble through and less time for the defense to set up. There are still some quality "BODIES" out there. Kemp, Alvin Jones, Jason Collier when the T'wolves cut him and potentially Stanley Roberts (currently in Toronto but something could be worked there too!). There are more, no one great but many bruising rebounders just the same. All I'm saying is it's hard to play point when you're always receiving the ball on the inbounds with 2 defenders in your jock up and down the floor.

This ought to tick someone or two off here but if it's a big bruising rebounding body we want, why not Alvin Jones. Not a starter mind you, but one [censored] of a big body and shot blocker of the bench.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-s...p&type=lgns saw you beat me to it. Maybe now it means he can be resigned on the cheap, stuck on the IR till 100%

Deke will probably end up in NY or Bos. Toronto is a player here too, all east teams. All 3 have hinted they have a spot for him and he would want to play in Jersey's division now. Utah has cap room. Denver would welcome him back. Back to Theo, this is why Robinson was so bad for this team. His lazy defense left an already taxed, undersized center to defend his man, occasionally to offer help weakside for Reef and to watch for Robinson's man coming free on the back door cut night after night. Newble chased down his man, when robinson wouldn't and it left Ratliff with one less direction to think about. A bigger SF (Height wise) would greatly help the squad or a true PF moving the big Shareef to SF would eliminate one of those 3 defensive zones for Ratliff... ie. Kemp at PF, SAR at SF means the other teams power foward isn't a concern when we're on defense. Also, the other teams small forward (cept for KG) can't post Reef meaning Reef can play up on him away from the basket forcing them drive. Just my philosophy. I just think we're relying alot this year for Nazr's foot, Crawford's knee and Hendu's body to play big minutes for us again at the 4 and 5.

Before last Week, Stanley Roberts was. Sean Kemp (and [censored] anyone that doesn't think he moves mountains underneath) is, Deke now is (though clumsy offensively for sure and not my first choice.). Lorenzen Wright is for the right trade....Sabonis if you could talk him out of retirement. But there are a couple. Personally, I wish we would've grabbed Stanley Roberts before Toronto did. But this team has some moveable talent. Diesel be darned, it does look like a trade is the best way to make our size mismatch go away and Theo is the best tradable commodity to make that Happen.

The point I'm making is he is a little smaller and not intimdating enough on the boards or the defensive end to make up for Ratliff's lack of size. Good enough by himself, absolutely but big enough to get Theo back, NO!!! Don't make me compare size for Theo against other centers. Oh alright, I will. Theo Ratliff #42 | Forward-Center | Atlanta Hawks Height: 6-10 Weight: 230 Dikembe Mutombo #55 | Center | New Jersey Nets Height: 7-2 Weight: 265 Alonzo Mourning #33 | Center | New Jersey Nets Height: 6-10 Weight: 261 Zydrunas Ilgauskas #11 | Center | Cleveland Cavaliers Height: 7-3 Weight: 260 Brendan Haywood #00 | Center | Washington Wizards Height: 7-0 Weight: 268 Jamaal Magloire #21 | Center | New Orleans Hornets Height: 6-11 Weight: 259 Jason Collins #35 | Center | New Jersey Nets Height: 7-0 Weight: 260 Michael Doleac #51 | Center | New York Knicks Height: 6-11 Weight: 262 Now as you can plainly see, all of these are Centers in the east. All are significantly bigger than Theo creating back to the basket match up issues that mean SAR may have to give help one way or another and still be able to muscle for rebounds. this is what diesel (who I rarely agree with) means and he's right.

IR - "As for Reef...he's not undersized. He's = Webber in size, and size is an argument that you'll never hear about him" Let me start by saying Reef is awesome but I'm just backing Diesel's premise that they don't compliment each other in their current roles. What follows is Reef, and his size compared to the top PF's in the game and then the top SF in the game (forgive me if I leave out someone's favorite.). You'll see he's either and or a little shorter/thinner than the PF's listed and a little thicker than the SF's listed. Shareef Abdur-Rahim #3 | Power Forward | Atlanta Hawks Height: 6-9 Weight: 240 Elton Brand #42 | Power Forward | Los Angeles Clippers Height: 6-8 Weight: 265 Juwan Howard #5 | Power Forward | Orlando Magic Height: 6-9 Weight: 260 Karl Malone #32 | Power Forward | Los Angeles Lakers Height: 6-9 Weight: 256 Rasheed Wallace #30 | Power Forward | Trail Blazers Height: 6-11 Weight: 230 Chris Webber #4 | Power Forward | Sacramento Kings Height: 6-10 Weight: 245 Pau Gasol #16 | Power Forward | Memphis Grizzlies Height: 7-0 Weight: 227 Kevin Garnett #21 | Small Forward | Minnesota Timberwolves Height: 6-11 Weight: 220 Matt Harpring #15 | Small Forward | Utah Jazz Height: 6-7 Weight: 231 Shawn Marion #31 | Small Forward | Phoenix Suns Height: 6-7 Weight: 215 Jamal Mashburn #24 | Small Forward | New Orleans Hornets Height: 6-8 Weight: 247 Glenn Robinson #13 | Small Forward | Philadelphia 76ers Height: 6-7 Weight: 230 Peja Stojakovic #16 | Small Forward | Sacramento Kings Height: 6-10 Weight: 229

IR - "out of curiousity, what is the reasoning behind your constant yammering that Reef needs a big bodied C behind him?" Because both are undersized at their position. Reef is a tweener forward. A little big/bulky for SF, a little small to be a true PF (but give him huge props for effort). Ratliff doesn't have the body to stop a "Back to the basket" true center. Stop Ostertag...absolutely. Stop Jermaine O.Neal on the drive...no problem. Stop Zydrunas Ilgauskas 3 feet from the hoop..."NOT A SHOT IN JERSEY". He just isn't that type of guy...though phenominal. To keep his team mates from constantly exposing themselves by having to rotate against a big body, back to the basket center...Ratliff would need a box em out, cover the lane, put the other guy on his [censored] power forward to get his back...Reef isn't big enough for that.

What if....Now this is purely speculation guys but Since Utah is in Need, Could we Unload some contract to Utah (Say Hendu or CC) for little to help them get to the salary minimum...etc. Then Sign Deke for a one year deal with a player option. Line up like so. JT SJax SAR Ratliff Deke This would greatly improve the interior D. You could Easily Rotate Deke and Ratliff's shifts offset by 4 minutes (One out at 6 minutes, one out at 10 back in at 2 minutes into the 2nd and 6 minutes in to the 2nd). This is a phenominal defensive team with JT's steals, Jackson/Ratliff/Deke on the floor at the same time. When one or the other isn't in, SAR rotates to the 4. Now go with a second lineup of DD/JV Dion Diaw/Hansen Nailon Nazr Of course that second group would not all be on the floor at the same time. The only problem I see with the first group is a need for interior passing but God Almighty do we clean the glass and get put backs on bad shots and force other teams to shoot from the outside. This frontcourt defensively could actually match up with the Lakers Front court. When is the last time you heard of a team being able to slow/stop the lakers/spurs inside game.

This is an age old question. Shooter .vs banger. Some of you are saying, we need the outside threat to open the inside up. I say, we don't have enough inside to open the outside threat. All too often, the only inside presence we have is SAR and he needs room to work so his post up game is typically 8-10 from the basket. Rarely does he receive the ball within 6 feet. No other player on our team is a serious theat. Ratliff is good when playing against other PF's, but against Centers, he can't shoot over them with his fade or bang for more room. Glenn Robinson needed to receive the ball when moving or spotting up to be effective. Far too often, teams can double Shareef and rely on help to stop his drives. Rarely if ever do I see our shooters get "THE OPEN LOOK". It's always off screen or with a hand in the face but you never see the good ball rotation to the open man, because there is no open man. We don't have the inside game to cause matchup problems in the paint and demand low double teams. Only SAR and his plays always start 8-10 feet away. Given better floor spacing and better inside play and or a trade for more of a back to the basket player, more space for the outside 15-23 footer will be there. Case in point, Stephan Jackson's experience with the spurs last year. This is why I was screaming a week ago for another/more offensive back to the basket big man.

Who was it that did the quick substitution thing. I think the early 80's pistons. Diaw (just let him handle the rock still only gets 12 minutes) JT (splitting ball handling duties) Jackson Sar Theo Then 5 or 6 minutes in bring in Dion to finish the 2nd and start the 3rd. (Subing for Diaw) He gets starter minutes but broken up. This gives you JT and Dion on the floor together for only a couple of minutes in the 2nd/3rd. Then Bring in DD/JV to spell JT Nazr for Theo and Hendu for SAR. DD (or Vaughn) Dion (still gets 24 minutes a game) Nailon/Hansen (Or Crawford) Hendu Nazr A little more scoring in that second group than last year, and more defense in the first group. It's just a thought

Dolfan, I'm in but your added info on how to join isn't listed. List instructions again please

HTL- I am amazed how polar our views are on things. Some days I wonder who the [censored] you are and days like today I'm asking mom about the milkman cuz I think you're a lost relative. Stanley Roberts, although not Shaq, has the ability and skills to be a top 5 center in the league. I watched last season's sportscenter documentary on him and thought to myself, "Somebody's gonna sign him next year and everyone else is gonna regret it." Guess while I was on my add a big man cheap rant last week, I totally forgot about Shaq's former apprentice. This is a huge pickup for Toronto. Word is he's in the best shape he's been in since he first came in to the league. If Vince is truly back and Roberts finally starts to realize his potential, the Hawks just took another step down the ladder.