thecampster

I believe in the "What if they keep Payton" concept". Who could pay him more than us. Before we attempt to sign anyone, won't we still have 24 million next year? Now what if Al Harrington goes on draft night for another first rounder around #20. So we resign Payton for 8 million a season for 3 years. (far more than anyone else can offer). Sign Ray Allen for $12 million a year. Draft Bogut, Jarrett Jack, Wayne Simien and another center in the 2nd round of the draft. Next years team looks like this. Gary Payton, Jarrett Jack, Ivey Allen, Diaw, Delk Childress, Donte Smith Josh Smith, Simien, Ekezie Bogut, Drobnak, draft pick, Collier (sorry, he has a year left). A team of the Josh's, Bogut Allen and Payton has to look pretty good to Gary wouldn't you think. That is a good all around squad that can shoot inside and out and can pass out of double teams.

which is why the trade goes down now.

Try any variation of this you like Atlanta trades: PF Antoine Walker (20.2 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 3.6 apg in 40.2 minutes) Atlanta receives: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes) PF Austin Croshere (9.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.5 minutes) Change in team outlook: +13.8 ppg, +2.6 rpg, and +1.0 apg. New York trades: SG Anfernee Hardaway (8.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.2 apg in 24.9 minutes) New York receives: PF Antoine Walker (20.2 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 3.6 apg in 40.2 minutes) Change in team outlook: +11.9 ppg, +6.9 rpg, and +1.4 apg. Indiana trades: SF Ron Artest (24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 3.1 apg in 41.6 minutes) PF Austin Croshere (9.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.5 apg in 26.5 minutes) Indiana receives: SG Anfernee Hardaway (8.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.2 apg in 24.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: -25.7 ppg, -9.5 rpg, and -2.4 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to New York and Indiana being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New York and Indiana had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have been assigned Trade ID number 2271406 Talk about it on the Trade Board Now Given New York throws considerations in the way of a Draft Pick Indiana's way it helps Indiana move the biggest headache they have. They'll do it just to have another body for their playoff run and you could do worse than Hardaway. This move insures the Hawks tank the rest of the way. Next year they draft the best Center available (Bogut) with their top 4 pick (probably 1st overall) and move Diaw/2nd to move into the first to take either Jarrett Jack or Daniel Ewing. They line up: Jarrett Jack/Delk/Lue Childress/D. Smith/Ivey Artest/Smooth Harrington/Croshere Bogut/Ekenzie Carry Collier on the bench to fill in for the walking wounded. To anyone hollering about Artest and his attitude, realize he's been out for a year and that grates on you. He's got to be good or he's gone and looking at this team, I see 3 things that stick out. It can shoot, handle the ball and is long enough to defend. Just a thought to stir the pot.

No other way to look at it. It gives the rookie some floor time now. No better way to learn than coming off the bench with a couple of vets.

Well here I go causing a stir, but I am not overly impressed with Boris. I see his greatest value as future trade potential but that's just me. 2 reasons to giving playing time to C.C. he can score. He is a vet that could go to a contender at the deadline for a nice player later. This is a last year for c.c. Playing time plays up his value to help us build by trading for picks, developing younger players. So in my world, a small forward who can't shoot yet, is seemingly afraid to go to the hole and only has current value as a defensive stopper is third string when rebuilding.

First post in 6 months but I've been reading. Golden State just released Christian Laettner. I'm not considering him as a starter obviously but the guy can score, can play both the 4 and 5 and is a solid vet in the NBA. If we signed Laettner and Anderson, our first 5 would be Anderson, Childress, Walker, Harrington, Drob and our second 5 would be Delk, Smith, Crawford, Laettner, Collier Although the vertical leap of that second unit would be seriously lacking (outside of Josh Smith), that is a second unit that can score and has a very high basketball I.Q. Just a thought.

Why hasn't anyone suggested the possibility of Shaun Livingston, the point guard out of High School in Chicago falling to 6. Someone has to. If Charlotte picks their poison and takes Josh Smith instead, Livingston would fall. Any takers on a 6'7" point guard. This is also a real possibility.

Well Diesel, this trade worked for me right up until the point you started naming who we should get. Instead, I would draft in this order. This is given we do the right thing and resign Stephen Jackson. #6 - Jameer Nelson. I'll take proven winning talent over the kid from High School any day. #15 - Robert Swift - C High School. Mark my words, this kid is the real deal and will climb up the boards quickly. He's gaining weight and doing what it takes to become an NBA center. He'll be a rich man's Pryzbilla, with an offensive game. #17 - You can go 2 ways here. 1st, Luke Jackson or Al Jefferson. I hate the idea of Passing on Luke, but Jefferson is a mean nasty banger. He's exactly what we would have gotten had we carried Udonis Haslem last year. #35 - Ha Seung-Jin 7-3 300 C (S. Korea) 1985. 300 lb High schooler that can play. Great risk at 35. #38 - Chris Duhon - Played on the best team for 90% of last season and led them to another ACC championship. Great backup point guard of the future. #43 - Rashad Wright - Georgia. (Given we take Jefferson at 17) Shame he isn't on the board but as he showed in team workouts, he's an NBA caliber player. Can play the 2 behind Stephen Jackson. (Given we take Luke Jackson at 17), I'd go with moving this pick for a veteran contract and future considerations. (#43, Henderson for a bad contract and a future protected first.) Here's a projected roster Atkins, Nelson, Duhon Jackson, Wright, Hansen Crawford, Diaw Harrison, Henderson Pryz, Swift, Ha Seung-Jin You have the money to go after Kobe if you want to this year and could move Jackson to the 3 and have Kobe at the 2. A starting 5 of Nelson, Jackson, Bryant, Harrison, and 2 7 foot centers in 2 years is very attractive. Especially to a coach like Fratello.

Would you trade JT straight up for Chris Wilcox?

I was fishing in my head about the proposed deal to get Phoenix's pick to take Jahadi White off their hands so they could sign Kobe and it hit's me. We could do the same. We find a team that would like to be in next year's free agent pool and would like a first round pick this year. We send them Henderson and the 17th pick for a longer term smaller contract (like 3 years 3-5mil). (Great example, Cleveland and Ira Newble signed at 4 years, 4 million per)). This would clear an extra 4-6 million in capspace this year for us. Why? We could potentially have the money to sign Jamal Crawford, Kenyon Martin and Kobe Bryant. Why does the other participant do this? They have little shot at Kobe (see Utah, Denver). They have capspace to fill for one more year. They are building now (see the Clippers every year). They want in on next year's free agents and by taking Hendu now and dumping a 3 million dollar, 3- 4 year contract they free it and Henderson's salary up for next year. Now move JT for a low end pick (Like San Antonio's who have space) and you could start the year looking like this. Jamal Crawford/Duhon Kobe Bryant/Sura/Newble Stephen Jackson/Josh Smith/Diaw Kenyon Martin/Chris Crawford/ Joe Pryzbila/ Hansen, San Antonio's pick (#28) and the other 2 2nd round picks (one spent on Duhon) and we are in with a good team that can defend the perimeter and score. Let the arguing begin.

Blunt, the idea here is to replace Terry with Jamal Crawford at a similar price by trading away his salary. So rather than give up the 6th pick in this year's draft as you suggeest, we in essence would be trading Diaw and the 17th pick for a top 8 selection and Crawford for Terry. With that pick, we land Jameer Nelson to play the back up point behind Crawford or beside him, we all get our boy Josh Smith and Howard. It just takes a little creativity. and I don't think Howard is Lebron James either. He's more of a Shawn Kemp with much better handles and without the 85 children out of wedlock. He's that good. Select these 3 players by giving up some and what you get are 3 players who can pass and dribble, 2 that can defend and all 3 can score for an undersized, lazy point guard and a decent but not overwhelming Euro that can't score. I'm still not sure why everyone on this board is so enamoured with Diaw.

If for no other reason than selfishness to see a true baller in the phillips arena, I want the Hawks to get Jameer Nelson from St. Joe's. I know what you're gonna say "but he's only 6'0" or "he'll be another J.T." I say horse puckey. He's a baller and that's a talent the Hawks have lacked. I'm not sure how to push that 17th selection up 3 notches to the point we'll need to be to grab that selection but he's my want for this team.

Let's look at it from this perspective and see what you guys think. Presently we have JT, Diaw, Hansen, Crawford and Henderson. We resign SJax, Sura and Pryz (last 2 can be had cheap) giving us 8 players. We trade with Phoenix, Jahadi White and Phoenix's pick (probably #7 over alll) pre-lottery to give us a better chance at a better pick. For our 3rd 2nd rounder (43rd overall) this year, the 2nd rounder owed to us by Orlando and a future 1st protected against the lottery. Going into the draft we look like this, JT Sura/Hansen Sjax/Diaw Crawford/Henderson Pryz/White Draft selections 6,7,17, 35 and 38 We then trade Jason Terry, Boris Diaw and the 17th selection to the Chicago Bulls (who would like to let Crawford go) for the 2nd overall pick. In order, these are the selections I make. 2. Dwight Howard or Emeka Okafur (which ever is available..let's say Howard for now)). 6. Jameer Nelson 7. Josh Smith or Luol Deng (if he falls this far and smith goes early). 35. Ha Seung-Jin 7-3 300 C (S. Korea) 1985 38. Chris Duhon 6-1 190 PG Duke Sr. and the cap space to go after 2 of the top 5 free agents. (Kobe is out as Phoenix can now afford him) My picks are Kenyon Martin and Jamal Crawford. Final team looks like this: Nelson/Duhon Jamal Crawford/Sura/Hansen SJax/Chris Crawford/Josh Smith Kenyon Martin/Dwight Howard/Henderson Pryzbilla/Jahadi White/Ha Seung-Jin Expect Henderson to bleed again and ride the IR and let Seung-Jin spend one year developing overseas. That get's us down to 12. Move Henderson mid season to a team trying to clear cap space for next year. This team isn't stellar but definately a playoff team. When Crawford and Henderson come off the books next year, that's another 10 million in cap space. Just a thought or 2 to stir the pot.

I disagree. Crawford is a keeper. This is Chris Crawford without his full wind and since he's a tweener at the forwards, a little out of position. This guy will not only continue to get his 15 but plays one heckuva lot better defense than his predessor at that position. Crawford will cost us his 4 millionish next year and then be eligible for free agency. What would it cost to resign him, jack that's what. 2 million max. Who would you rather have? An aging vet who's looking for that last contract (like Horace Grant) who can play but is all about protecting the body for retirement or someone willing to crash balls nelly into Shaq for 2 points.

actually it's Reef, Nazr, Ratliff, Dickau for Mills, Rebraca, Sura, Person, Pryzbilla & the Bucks 1st pick in this years draft.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-k...ov=ap&type=lgns

That at 7 and 16, the hawks are only 3.5 games out of the playoffs. The east just sucks this year. It sucks bad.

I can't believe I'm gonna say this out loud. Get off Hotlanta's back!!!!!!!!! Personally, I don't share all his opinions on the Hawks but for Pete's sake, take a look and see where he's coming from and not the method he's using. Stephan Jackson was a bench player for the Spurs, we're giving him 13 shots a game. That's 3 more a game than the spurs gave him as a #1 option off the bench where he should get more looks than as 4th option on offense as a starter. Dion Glover who by the way is the one guy on this team I think is giving it his all, all season (even Reef was loafing the first 5 games). Was available for 1-3 million a season to the right bidder all summer. No one bought. We're allowing him 13.3 shots a game. Now although he is shooting a lower percentage than Jackson there is a reason. He's getting to the line 2.2 times more than Jackson a game meaning he's getting fouled and missing the shot at least once more a game than Jackson and by driving the ball to the hoop he's at least making the defense move. Jackson is a stagnant shooter on offense and poorer handler of the ball. Proof is the shorter Glover averages to date show that in 2.5 less minutes a game, Dion gets 1 more rebound and gives up .7 less turnovers per game. Add these 2 players up. In about 33 minutes of the game, they shoot 26.4 times, grab 9.2 boards, give 5.1 assists and turn it over 4.7 times. So these two players who were bench players last year and that no one wanted over the summer get 45.5 quality touches in 33 minutes. Hotlanta's argument is that we are under talented. We have 2 players no one wanted getting a quality touch (shot, board, assist, turnover) once every 40 seconds for 33 minutes of a 48 minute game. This is why we are under talented. JT might be a good point guard on a team with better players in the starting lineup, but facts is facts. Reef is the only Nba starter of the group for JT to look to offensively. 2 others are marginal starters on any playoff team, but not both on a playoff team, Ratliff is small and defensive minded so by default JT has to be the second option. Second unit. 2 rookies, one with no USA college experience so he doesn't know the players he's playing with or against. 1 pure non scoring point guard, one second year marginal point guard, 2 gimps (crawford, henderson), a cast off from New York (Nailon), a cast off from Philly with a pin in his foot(though Nazr is arguably the best of the group). So when Hotlanta is "griping" about the talent level and to get off Stotts' back about coaching I have to agree with him. In my humble opinion, JT's head is up his keester about what his job is supposed to be right now. He should stop shooting in practice and make running the half court offense his number one goal. He should as a second goal start practicing penetrating and hitting a cutter and make the other players, Jackson and Ratliff specifically get involved in being the cutters. Jackson needs to go back to hustling for loose balls and mixing it up inside and outside 15 feet instead of hanging out looking for a pass and jacking it up. Reef needs to start demanding the ball and start dishing out punishment to anyone hacking him. If he continues to get hacked, then he needs to start being a man and call for the ball on the next possession and step on the guys chest on the way to the basket. Ratliff needs to quit whining about tic tac fouls and put some other teams on his can so the refs will have a real foul to blow about. You play a tic tac style and they'll whistle you for tic tac fouls. You play like a beast and they'll only whistle the contact that draws blood. Ask John Salley. Glover. He needs to keep putting forth the effort and start passing after driving to force Ratliff to be a force on offense and to make the other teams shotblockers respect those other players. and Alan Henderson needs to take some freaking Midol and get his pansy [censored] back on the floor. I grew up in Indiana and recently just moved back and our whole freaking state is ashamed to say we put out such a wuss.

How long before his trade restriction after signing the new deal.

The phrase is clock cleaned. Wouldn't mention it but it's the second time you've said it tonight.

Terry stat line through 3. 2 points, 1 assist, 1 rebound, 4 turnovers in 14 minutes. Yeah it's not his fault.

Besides, I ain't like it when you tauk bowt my lerning dissabilite

Hold the phone guys. Chris Crawford is in the game. The great white hope. Giving short fat white guys like me everywhere hope of playing in the NBA one day.

37-13 after 1 quarter. That's freaking embarassing. And after a 2 day rest against a team that got beat in a barn burner the night before and should be tired. Just out hustled and out manned.

Kemp and Roberts are the 2 names I've mentioned in the past, they are the names just brought up earlier in this thread and they're the same names I'm mentioning now. Either can give us what ekenzie was giving us and more. When I mentioned Kemp before the season started everyone was screaming, no....we need guards, more guards and There's no way he'll sign for the vet minimum. Well, he hasn't been signed by anyone, and we get our collective rears kicked on the boards every night. Beat like a drum inside. Wake up people, your starting PG and SG are averaging over 10 rebounds a game. 10 boards from the guards. Is it because they're really tall, hardly...it's because our big guys are way undersized and need the help and it's killing the fast break. Trade Ratliff and Henderson to Portland for Rasheed and Sign Stanley Roberts to play center...Then line up JT, Glover, Wallace, SAR and Roberts. Backup with JV, Jackson, Diaw, Nailon, Nazr. Another guard (no harm meant to Parker) is not what we need.