Swatguy

I like it. He was a player in the league. He went to Duke which means brainy. He has league management lineage. He has experience as GM and High Administration (Spurs I add) . He has the stones to walk away from idiot ownership usurption. He is hungry to prove his abilities.Let's Go!!

It's too bad he wasn't the majority owner when they were voting on the Joe Johnson trade

I believe the trade was the thing to do. The mistake was this last contract and signing. He should have been shopped.

Belkin was the majority owner, and these morons weren't doing a good job even when he was part of the ownership.This is the most important thread of the off-season. Hopefully the Hawks have a new solo owner this time next year.I'd even settle for Madea at this point.

Tyler probably got the money too. Back to my premise. We are like a Calipari recruit, one and done. ASG wants to sell, Josh, Sund and LD have one year on thir deals. A move of Marvin and the inevitable amnest of Joe. We seem to be headed for new ownership and a rebuilding team (save Al). Only moving Joe and Marvin Now will prevent rebuiling in 2013-2014.

Most minds are set in the thought that the ASG must be removed in order to have a contending team. I'm not sure if they want to sell totally or just most (50% or better). So suppose what are the things neccessary for this team to be sold? I believe ASG will need to eliminate as much debt as possible to have the most attractive product to sell. I would instruct Sund to move Joe and Marvin for expirings and or movable salaries ASAP. A new management may mean moving burdensome assets more than anything else.

Drew knew Marshall was the real deal, that's why Jr. took the midnight train to LA after he lost the position. If LD is going to reject a needed player for some petty s... He needs to be fired ASAP and never given another NBA job again if even college or HS.

It wasn't Jrs. choice to leave. His parents made the decision. Jr. will be fine in LA.

Walter you answered your own question. After Davis the talent is close and deep. The new CBA issues the economic reality of correction in salary structures moving forward. Teams rather to choose a lower valued pick (lower guaranteed salary) and obtain value at the same time. The Hawks should not be sucked into moving Josh for a pick but the Hawks could benefit greatly if someone wants Joe or/and Marvin. It would be wonderful if Golden State wants Joe for their pick. Or Marvin for that matter.

You took away joe as wellDeron/min/min/smoove/horford with zaza and 7 vet mins on benchWe would have to trade smoove for 2 serviceable wing starters (kmart/scola) to be able to trYou took away joe as wellDeron/min/min/smoove/horford with zaza and 7 vet mins on benchWe would have to trade smoove for 2 serviceable wing starters (kmart/scola) to be able to trot out a decent starting 5 when healthy with all vet mins on bench

Zaza startswith:AlJoshDeronRoll with vetmins:WilliePargoTracyIvanDraft Fab Melo or the best available wing.Joe is not the answer nor the piece of the puzzle. Get that franchise point.

So you want to amnesty joe and trade our talent for future picks for the LONG SHOT that deron will want to sign with our gutted team????

Of course there would have to be an agreement with Deron. With Deron would we need Teague? I think not. Marvin...cmon

As others said, they use a place holder for the guys you must sign called a "cap hold." If you didn't do this, every team would wait to resign their own free agents until they went out and signed new people so they could use their bird rights, etc. to effectively manuever around the cap. Even if you renounce all your free agents, you have to account for any open roster spots up to a minimum of 13 with minimum salary cap holds. The earlier post I quoted again has that detail in it.

I see. So to get a Deron we wuld have to shed even more of the cap. Which means a scenario of moving Marvin and Teague for say, future picks. I believe it is still worth investigating because we are going nowhere with what we got and Deron is big time talent and available.

This can't be a solution if you follow the cap rules. For cap purposes you always have to fill the roster with minimum dollar players.Your method is not legal under the cap. It is just wishful thinking.

of course you have to fill the roster. Are you saying the roster has to be filled to sign a FA? What exactly is not legal? You have 19 mil in cap space and you cannot sign a FA before you have x amount of players? I do understand a cap hold for the draftee is required (and I forgot about it) which on a 23rd pick is probably $1.4 mil.Clarify if you can, your statement ("Your method is not legal under the cap.").

I don't know how much more plainly to say this, but I will spell it out in more detail by quoting an earlier post on this subject which quotes an even earlier post on this subject:ter wayTHE HAWKS CAN'T SIGN DERON SIMPLY BY AMNESTYING JJ. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

It seems to me you are filling the roster to the cap then amnesting Joe and deducting the cap. I believe there is a better way to achieve my desires. By amnesting Joe first the cap is reduced by his salary. That brings the cap to $41,169,327 for 5 players leaving $19,830,673.So, sign Deron starting his salary at $17 million and leave $2.8 under the cap. Then there is the space under LT (threshold) and the MLE.Can this be a solution?

Deron isn't a leader either so that's negligible. He's also just as much of a ball hog as Joe is. Deron is certainly better but he's not that much better that it will make a difference at the gates.

You are calling a Point Guard, "Ball Hog". Interesting. You speak of a without a doubt best three PG in the league, "isn't a leader either". Puzzling. DI believe the newness of Deron would create a tremendous buzz locally and league wise. I'm writing about moving the Third best player on this team and replacing him with a guy that would be the best player on the team.There really is no comparison. Deron is a player, a baller, a guy that don't shrink. Joe Sucks often and is getting worse.

It's not good business to send out a guy who's got 2-3 high level years left in him and actually pay him up to $10 million a season to play for someone else. Swapping Deron for Joe isn't going make us a finals team and nothing short of that will fill up Philips arena even at the current ticket prices, let alone increasing them during a recession. The bottom line is that whether you or I or anyone think it's good business sense or not to amnesty Joe, the ASG aren't going to do it this year and if you have any doubts about that just look back to last years draft when we had to sell a draft pick just to bring in another couple million bucks.

Joe is the 7th best SG and the 8th best SF in the league. Deron is top 3 in his prime. How much better are we with Deron? It really cant be measured but for sure Much Much better. This is the quality and leadership missing. Joe is a limited, diminishing talent offering little leadership.

Even though this is not his hometown he may be willing to take a hometown discount to get an opportunity to play with a future NBA champion & HOFer in Joe Johnson.Pipe dream?

What are you talking about? The proposition is getting Deron by amnesting Joe, not getting Deron to play with Joe. Dolfan you suppose the ASG will opperate in pride rather than good sense? Paying a portion of Joe's salary is a shifting of assets. The debt is relieved by additional revenues. That is just good business.

Well Diesel, in amnesting Joe the first offer is to those teams under the cap. The "undercap" teams bid against each other. If an undercap team bids for him, his contract is cosigned. Joe will not have an oportunity to chose his suitor unless no team bids for his services. I'm betting some undercap team will bid. The Hawks of course will need to due diligence in finding out the "undercap team for Joe" market.Secondly, with Deron in tow (basically for Joe), ASG will have a windfall at the turnstile, TV/League revenues and the such. It will take big minded, bold movements to get to be competent as a contender. The increase of these revenues will offset the LT. We would be siting pretty by making these moves.

If the Hawks have a team which can draw 17,000 and increase the average ticket by 8 dollars, they will see 13 million from the gate alone. That covers JJ's amnested debt.Now imagine Deron Williams driving this Hawks team. Draft Melo and start Zaza.ZazaAlJoshWillie/Tracey/bpaDeron

The Porblem Swat.What If Joe says I want to win and he takes the MLE to play for LAC or Miami. Our owners will still owe Joe 14 Million dollars.Understand who our Owners are... Our Owners are guys who refused to pay 1 Million dollars in LT to get a good player. They refused to pay 3 Million in LT to get Shaq.Do you tihnk they will pay 15 Million to watch Joe play for somebody else.On top of that, do you think they would then approach paying more money to find Joe's replacement?That's the problem in your thinking. There's no win for our owners in this plan. It sounds good for a fan... We say... yeah, get rid of Joe's contract from the cap and we can get anybody. The owners however (who are thrifty) are saying, why are we paying Joe 15 million to be a Clipper or to play for the Heat or to play with Brooklyn???Now Swat, let me make it clearer for you.You just bought a nice Big Body Benz. You love it but the note on that bad boy is about $1100 per month for 6 yrs. You have a friend that says he will take the car off your hands and he will pay $300 per month for it. IF you do the deal with your friend, You still have to pay $800 per month for the next 4 years for the Benz.. and guess what... You still need a car. What do you do?And if you get a new car, are you going to get that brand new 2012 Aston Martin DB9 convertible Volante Luxury edition?What you should hope for in an amnesty is NEW OWNERS.

Well Diesel, in amnesting Joe the first offer is to those teams under the cap. The "undercap" teams bid against each other. If an undercap team bids for him, his contract is cosigned. Joe will not have an oportunity to chose his suitor unless no team bids for his services. I'm betting some undercap team will bid. The Hawks of course will need to due diligence in finding out the "undercap team for Joe" market.Secondly, with Deron in tow (basically for Joe), ASG will have a windfall at the turnstile, TV/League revenues and the such. It will take big minded, bold movements to get to be competent as a contender. The increase of these revenues will offset the LT. We would be siting pretty by making these moves.

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Explaining-the-NBAs-New-Amnesty-Clause-Blog-42532

Amnestying Joe doesn't free up Joe's salary in cap space. It frees up $13M if we sign all minimum salary free agents. That isn't enough to land a guy like Deron and certainly doesn't give you room to sign Hawes, Kaman, etc.

Amnesty Clause Basics

[*]Each team is permitted to waive 1 player and have 100% of the player’s salary removed for Cap and Tax purposes

[*]Once a player is waived under the Amnesty Clause, they are placed in a modified waiver process available only to teams under the Salary Cap.

[*]Teams with room under the cap can then submit a claim on players by bidding to pay a portion of the player’s previous salary

[*]Once part of a player’s salary is claimed by a new team, the old team will continue to pay the remaining amount (though it won’t count against the Cap or Tax).

We can slide Deron into Joe's salary. To get a Hawes will mean menuevering, shifting assets and perhaps going into the tax. Again, a S&T with Philly and perhaps they will take Marvin and a pick.

Amnest Joe and Overwhelm Deron Williams. Sign Hawes (if not Kamen). Hawes is tough. We may even be able to move Marvin to get him. Perhaps a S&T with Philly even if we have to tack a pick onto it. With Deron we can move an asset for a pick or SG with Teague.With that premier PG available sell the idea to him of playing with Josh and Al with wetmins like Willie, Pargo, Ivan and Tracey. Keep Zaza and we have a serious roster:Deron/PargoPickup/Willie/MacGraddyJosh/Pickup/MacGraddyAl/IvanHawes(or Kamen)/Zaza

Josh and Al can and should be the best forward tandum in the league. We only need a driver. I'd amnest Joe and overwhelm the best point guard available, Deron Williams.

Without a doubt!! Yes!And I blame Joe, hegottago !

MC on twitter:Via @NBAOfficial, PF on M. Daniels w/ 3.1 secs should have been called sooner w/ result=ATL FT and ball http://t.co/3kn3QOImOnly would ever happen to us.

what a shame.

The Gearon shot. May very well be a stroke of genius. Everyone will have in there mind (KG is Dirty), EVERYONE. The fans, players and the officials will have it in the front and back of their minds. Because Gearon said it, it falls back on him. No media pressure on the coach (he didn't say it) or player. But it is out there in the spirit. KG IS DIRTY!!!Of course the C's will be feisty and emotional. We Will Have To Counter.How will KG be treated by the ref's? Will he be Physical? Can we take advantage of his obviously fragile psycology?

That was exactly what my wife said he said. I couldn't make it out as I replayed it. It will be interesting in Boston. Zaza may be available. Al's play tonight on the heels of his candor discussing Joe was so very refreshing. Perhaps we need only one Captain.

"Joe is our main guy," Horford said. "We go to him. He has to get us going offensively so he needs to go out there and be an enforcer and make his presence felt. I don't think my shots or Erick Dampier's shots are affecting him. I think Joe needs to be aggressive. He needs to go out there and score the ball. That's when we are at our best, when he does that."Captain Al drops bombs, telling the truth. Joe needs to get off his azz a play.

Atlanta is urban. The 9th largest metro area in the US. In fact the population is 10% short of being the 4th largest in the US. Atlanta is cosmopolitan and interna son and tional in every definition. The core of the area is the city which is majority African-American. The metro area comprises 1.7 million African-Americans. Only New York has more. (I support ASO and have family to perform there). Quite frankly the bumper music does not represent these facts. Iwill get more into it later, I gotta go.