Hoosier

Delete

It does not take basketball brilliance to realize that the Hawks starting line-up needed Marvin to balance things out, especially before Bibby. Things never worked right when Chill started. I do not buy in to anyone with the Hawks thinking otherwise. I appreciate him thinking he should start though, being as competetive as he is. He was my favorite Hawk, I feel like part of the team's soul is gone. Also, when it comes down to believing Chilldress and the way Management negotiated with him, hands down I'm going with Chilldress. This may be my last summer as a Hawk fan.

What the ASG does not get, is that they will actually save money by coming closer to meeting JS's demands, than not. By building through the draft, they have several RFAs hitting the open market in the next few years. This summer the ASG made it obvious they were not about to match offers, were they to be offered, by the 76ers or the Clippers. This has absolutly set them up to be challenged everytime they have a RFA hit the marketplace, by teams under the Cap issuing a slightly inflated offer for a Hawk player, and holding firm without the possibility of a S&T. No doubt, teams will be coming after these players. Sund will then have to either not match and lose his RFAs for nothing, or worse, maybe take on a Koncak type contract. Something for these frugal boneheads to think about.

What makes this situation so bad for Hawks Fans too, is what will happen to Marvin next summer, unless he panics and takes a low ball offer this Fall. Sund has now used-up his bluff card this summer, and teams pursuing someone like Marvin will know that they can slightly over pay for his services, and he will be gone too. This organization can no longer say with any kind of credibilty that they "will match any offer", for their RFAs. Why did they build through the draft, just to watch their aquired assets leave one summer after the next? What a disaster Stern has on his hands, in a top ten city to boot!

I see your point, about other possibilities. But, dealing only with the teams with trade exceptions gives the ASG a chance to take back half of JS's salary, plus maybe get their serviceable big man. My guess is that if they do a S&T, it will be with Chicago or Cleveland.

It would have to a team with at least a 3M+ trade exception, since there has been no mention of a third team. In the East that would be Chicago, Cleveland or New Jersey. In the West that would be Denver, Houston, or Pheonix (not counting OK City). The West Coast teams mentioned cannot give the Hawks the Center they are looking for. The Eastern teams would be something more plausible.

might not be as good as what is. My own thoughts on who would have been the best possible picks, with where the Hawks have drafted over the last four years, and how that cast would compare to the team we have now. My picks: '04 Draft #6-Al Jefferson (surpases Childress in '06-07) #17-Josh Smith #35-Chris Duhon (surpasses D.Smith in '04-05) '05 Draft #2-Chris Paul (surpasses Marvin in '05-06) #31-Monta Ellis (surpasses Stoudamire in '06-07) '06 Draft #5-Brandon Roy #33-Paul Milsap '07 Draft #3-Al Horford #11-Acie Law What I find interesting is how the Hawks won-loss record changes, as these players are drafted. Since Paul/Duhon are productive right away, our '06 Pick goes to Phoenix, and maybe not in position to draft Milsap. The Hawks probably make the playoffs in '06-07, and have a pick around #20. With Pick #11, they probably would take a swingman like Al Thornton, since they already would be well stocked at PG. Our new line-up would look something like this: C-Al Jefferson vs. Al Horford PF-Josh Smith vs. Josh Smith SF-Joe Johnson vs. Marvin Williams SG-Monta Ellis vs. Joe Johnson PG-Chris Paul vs. Acie Law 6th-Al Thornton vs. Josh Childress So you have a somewhat smallish offensive oriented line-up, verses what we have now, in a long, athletic, and defensive oriented line-up. Both line-ups are built to run. I would eventually give the edge to Horford vs. Jefferson, Marvin vs. Ellis, and of course Paul gets the edge over Law. Drafting Paul, would have made the Hawks miss out on Horford, who may be one of the most important Bigs to come along in the last three drafts. PGs get you to the playoffs, but you have to have a quality Big to go any further. Fate may have played the Hawks Fans the best hand, in that our present team may be the best possible team. If Roy would have been taken, there would also be no Horford.

I have been critical of JS, as well, but the his and the Hawks shooting woes are because their is no offensive system. Everyone has to create their own shot. As it is, the Hawks have three players that take their shots within the flow of the offense, or if you will, from what the defense gives them. That would be: Marvin, Horford, and Childress. If it were not for these three players, the Hawks would be shooting below 40% as a team. This is not just a JS phenomenon, it is a team-wide epidemic.

Yea there is wonderful Vince. But, his value did slide. If I remember, Toronto did not get near equal value for him. A lot of GMs would not touch him. Do you realy think that JS looking for the max., and JC looking for a new contract would risk their reputation on something like that? Or is it that diabolical Joe Johnson leading the baby birds astray? I don't have to make it to be anything, it is what it is.

You are quoting Terrance Moore? He also stated in the article that the players were definitely NOT trying to get their coach fired. A concept that probably got started right here, as usual. Careers would be over if word ever got out that players were doing that, the whole scenario is one of the dumbest I have ever heard of. I have been around a lot of NBA players, and know for a fact that this is just horse ****.

How can you say he lucked into anything? The point of this thread was, did BK have a master plan, that would work if given the opportunity. Did he want to rebuild through the draft? Yes, if he had lots of high picks then he accomplished one means to end, at least, right? Did he want long, skilled, defensive minded, and athletic draftees? Yes, the rest of the League is beginning to awe this. Did BK want players that had a clean medical history (draft picks)? Yes. Did he want players of high character? Oh, and yes. It would appear BK did not luck into anything. Most scouts, and Front Office personnel around the NBA really think the Hawks are on the rise.

Your raising the bar beyond human expectations. You have to pick someone on draft night, no one can always pick the best one, but to BKs credit he has yet to pick the wrong one. I cannot imagine a GM passing on Wade/Bosh for Darko. Can you imagine the Pistons with one of those guys? It would just be unfair the Eastern Conference. Maybe you and a few others participants here at HS would make better GMs, than BK. But, until you are actually in that position, and feel the pressure of that position you shall remain only the best GM of your Fantasy League. That is why I choose to look at whom BK has actually drafted, and project what that team is capable of. If you want to speculate on what other GMs would have done, look at all the players picked one pick before the six most recent 1st round picks that BK has had. Don't just look at all the ROY's he passed on, look at some of the bums picked in front of him.

Everyone wants to be respected when they post something here, the problem with Sothron is that he needed that repect. That is why his posts had to be sensational, it was a need that HS provided.

You must like pain, because you are probably going to get flamed for the next couple of days, for this post. Most of the fans that come here, and people in general just look at the bottom line, and what have you done for me lately. They will be the same people calling him a man of vision in a couple of years, when this team competes consistently at a high level. As real Hawk fans, we have to hope that the owners allow this team to stay together long enough for that to happen (Coaching Staff Not Included).

I was sort of agreeing with, in that JS is the kind of person you don't want playing for a contract. God forbid if he ever makes it as an All-Star, he will think he is Jordan incarnate.

Most GMs in most sports love to have players on the last year of their contracts, because of their intense focus. But, JS is trying to show everyone he is deserving of the max, because he is in the same echelon as Lebron and Kobe. If you remeber, he thought he was all world after winning the Slam Dunk contest, and played like crap for several weeks after that. If he could shake his childhood fantasies that he is a different kind of player than a Jordon or today's Lebron, with different skills and limitations, then he probably would be worth the max.

I guess that's right. But, I don't think you crucify the GM for the next millineum, either. Every dog has his day, and his was in the last draft. Horford will/is a franchise player.

It is tempting to think that there was a master master plan, but in reality no one can make that argument. BK came out and said in the AJC last year, that he did not realize Deron Williams was going to be this good. But, he did not blow it either, he got a player that would go #2 in most drafts. Just did not get the two players that would go #1 in most drafts. Yes, it would certainly be nice to see the fan base move on past this.

He is a pretty bright 8yr. old. huh? I think one of the points he's trying to make is that a lot of the League's more highly regarded GMs, have made mistakes that BK would not wish off on his worst enemy. But, they are part of more solid franchises, that can overcome some of their GMs worst mistakes. I do hope BK can now start fine tuning this team though, with some trades for veteran B/U PG,C, and 3pt specialist. Admit his mistake with Woodson, etc....

Very well said. BK has already hinted publicly that he should have picked Deron. But, when you look at the track records of some of these other GMs, BK is a frontrunner just because a lot of these Bufoons have taken steps back. The 06' Draft was one of the weakest I can remember, but at least he got a solid role player. In most drafts that #5 pick would have translated into a #15 pick or worse. Where BK takes a step forward is in the last draft. He not only set himself up to get picks #11 & #3, but resisted tremendous temptation to go for the quick fix and trade them. If he were looking out for his job, he would have done just that. Then he went out and absolutly aced the picks, in what turned out to be the Hawk's most important draft in years, one that he had to get right. Not bad.

Well sir, I have to respect your opinion, as a Ron Paul supporter. But, Southron did raise the level of interests in this site last summer with his outlandish claims that were suppose to have been coming out of the FO. Now that his insider card cannot be played any longer, the level of interest will drop lower than where it was before, with the media. Also, if the owners wanted to come here to gauge Fan's opinions on certain topics, they are not going wade through all this BS. I'm sure there has been something posted on here in the last couple of months, that has been dumber than that?

I have no sympathy for the you, Southron. You have essentially lowered the credibility of this forum. You deserve whatever comes your way.I listened to Bernie on the radio last summer incredulosly deny (must be a good actor) that any of the ASG owners had any business interests in China. At least get the facts right. I'll bet no body picks up your "BS" this year, for their media outlets. Yours is a cheap thrill, and you have lowered the product of information and opinions HS provides from time to time. Opinions and information that could have subtle influences on owners,players,coaches, and media looking in. Here is a challenge for you Southron, next time you post " ", let it be RIGHT. Don't stand behind Jaywalker, just let the information stand on its own merit. That should also take care of the criticsism/spoofs. You know, I am sure lots of people looking into this site have had " ", from time to time. I heard about the Isiah Rider trade from Harping/Doleac several days before it happened, but I saw no point in leaking that information here or at whatever the old forum was called. I was worried it would effect the trade. Someone with " ", has to also have a conscience about what they do with that information. Even if your information were correct, from time to time, you do not appear to have this quality.

That's not the article, it is from Thursday : "Magic might want Darko back despite agent's ire". For some reason I cannot link it.

Hawksfanatic, I do not know what #36 has to do with what our discussion is about. Maybe you do not understand what is at stake here for Darko and his agent? If you want to pull up something, pull up what happens when a team fails to give a player on an ending rookie contract, a QO. An article in the Orlando Sentinel spelled it out yesterday. They said that Orlando can trade another player away to get enough under the Cap to sign Darko, and then Lewis. But that this is only a slim possibility, and that the chances of them then being able to trade Darko and receive compensation, are then slim. That is why his agent was so pissed, Darko could very likely have to settle for only the Mid-Level. Also, you will find out soon enough that the Hawks can go over the Cap to sign there own players, so it not necessary to trade away half the team to sign JS.