TexasPete

Don't be such a wuss...

Mind if I join? Diesel, thanks for the props... Coming from the man who dissed the franchise of the Hawks as a ripe 19 year old all last year...and now has to watch in horror as the kid turns into a stud right before his eyes. Damn...that's 14,125 posts down the drain. I feel for you. There is a massive irony going on here...the most hated poster on HS trying to turn everyones attention away from the morass of drivel you wasted your time on here...the tremedous propensity to be dead wrong about so many things. I'm not in your league yet. I've only wee weed in people's cheerios about one topic. I need time to catch you. Rome wasn't built in a day. Beside's there is too much intellect and knowledge in my posts to ever be in your league! Thanks again for the props! Heeeeeeyaaahhhhh! Yours Truly, Texas Pete

Im not concerned about the Summer league. It's not the point. A ton of guys play great in the summer and then stink it up during the season. Its a much shorter list of guys who played terrible in the summer league and then kicked ass in the real NBA. Shelden Williams. I have plenty of time to wait this out. I hope Shelden comes around...I have tickets and I'd rather see a winner than a loser. But I don't see it. You won't either by the time December rolls around.

Fanatic, I guess its easier for you to attack posters than reasonably debate an issue. If I had your knowledge base I might do the same. Most of the stuff you post is pretty lightweight...not much substance. Its obvious you follow hoops as a secondary hobby because there is just not much to hang your hat on as far as details. I'll bet you never even played HS ball did you? You probably got cut. Your one of those guys who would rather be liked than dig in and have an opinion. Thats OK. But now I know who I'm dealing with...your not too tough to spot.

Doc, Actually your post has zero to do with the topic in the thread...and you weren't even involved. You just jumped in on your soapbox and started whining...again. Again, your post has nothing to do with the thread. Get off the soapbox. FYI, there are some posters here who actually have opinions that are not in lock step with the Hawks organization. Try it sometime buddy. It may liberate you to get an opinion that doesn't belong to somebody else. BTW, I have noticed in other threads that your posts hardly follow the topic. The fact that you call me out is humorous...and highly hypocritical. What you don't like is not hijacking...its my opinion. Its OK to hijack but you have to be in agreement with BK. Right, Doc? I GET IT!

I would be careful if I were you Fanatic. I've seen posters bring back your old posts and it wasn't always pretty. Turns out...you aren't always the expert you act like on this board. Your right about one thing. This board is pretty funny sometimes. But your right in the middle of all of it...not above it. Your opinions are no more or less valid than mine, KB21's, or Diesel's. How about climbing down from the high horse pal?

What a bunch of whiny babies...some people can't handle the truth. What you don't understand is that I have been a ticket holder since 1985. I have been sitting down in my seats for a long time. I hate for the Hawks to blow draft picks. I wanted for Shelden to work out...he won't be what many here really wanted. Talking the truth about Shelden isn't flaming. IF Shelden comes around I will change my tune. I don't go in for putting a player down for the sake of it. The difference between myself and Diesel is...I know what I'm talking about most of the time and my criticism is based on real analysis of a players strengths and weaknesses. I've done my homework. Marvin was not ready last year but it was clear that it was just a matter of time. How much time was not clear...2 to 3 years looked right. I say now its two years. Its one thing to say we should have taken CP3 or Deron...and another to say MW sucks and was a bad pick. Marvin was NEVER a bad pick. In the eyes of some he was the WRONG pick. I think that he was the right pick. Shelden was just a bad pick. It is hard to make a bad pick in the top 5. My biggest problem with Knights drafting, to this point, has not been wasting draft picks on bad players. It has been taking the WRONG players. With a Randy Foye this year we would be in the playoffs. Thats what makes this so damn frustrating. But Marvin Williams is about to bust out big. This kid will make 7-10 All-Star teams. Book it.

Patrick O'Bryant sucking isn't going to help Shelden Williams. At least O'Bryant has 3 YEARS to get to age 23 like the landlord. Randy Foye would have been an amazing help to this team. His on ball defense was as good as Rondo's...the two best by far in the draft. JJ and Foye...one helluva backcourt. Instead...nevermind. The Billy Knight era needs a quick conclusion.

Outside of Diesel and a precious few others most peolple knew Marvin wasn't ready last year for big things. However, if you watched the games you could see his talent. He has as pure a stroke for a big guy as you will ever see. He is also very athletic which is a necessity in the league. So, dismissing a 19 year old with that much talent is stupid. Real stupid. Shelden Williams is the polar opposite of Marvin. He is an old rookie at 23. He has 4 years of college under his belt. He does not possess good scoring tools, ie, low post or good face up moves. He overpowered lesser players in the ACC. That won't happen in the NBA. He also lacks the athleticism and explosiveness to really do well in the NBA. I see him as a role player off the bench who can help the team by taking charges and learning how to use his body for rebounding and scoring. He is, in many ways, a bigger project than Marvin because without the athleticism he has to figure out how to get by in the league...that won't happen overnight. I talked with one of the ATL Spirit before the draft. I begged him not to do it. He said his people were so high on Shelden, that he trusted their judgement. They were wrong. This guy may carve out a fair career as he learns the ropes...but he won't be a huge help this year. The thought of him starting at PF is absurd. I see him in a lot of foul trouble and he could give us 18-23 minutes a night. Folks, that is the guy we drafted at #5. Marvin will go for 15 and 8 this year. His quantum leap will be in year 3...he will be a 20 and 10 guy. This kid will pan out big. Shelden is just too limited. A good GM would have seen it.

OK, lets get this right. If Shelden can't score against guys who aren't even going to play in the NBA, he is not going to make a mircale transformation in 3 months when the comp level gets multiplied by 5x. He had 7 fouls last night which is an indication that he is either out of position or not athletic enough to get into position. To the person who asked about domination against Aldridge, so what? Aldridge will be a project further away than Marvin was last year. Let me ask you...did you see Marko Killingsworth piss in Shelden's face for 35 minutes against Indiana? That was all Shelden. Marko scored 36 points on 15-19 shooting point blank in his face. We were all commenting watching that game that Shelden looked like an unathletic slug and would not do much in the NBA. Marko muscled him all night long. Newsflash: Marko is not near what he will see in the league. Finally, to the poster who said that we didn't have as much need for a guard and Shelden was the most ready big man...WTF? Going into the draft our guards were lue, grundy, ivey, and salim. Two of those guys don't belong in the league and the other two are hardly complete packages. We needed a scoring combo guard that could share the backcourt and also DEFEND other guards from getting into the paint. I hear all this stuff about protecting the paint with Shelden...how about preventing people from getting into your paint with a guard like Foye? We drafted a career role player at 5 and will watch as guys that we passed up shine in the league. We are going to have to listen to crap ad nauseum about how we passed up two great guards when we had a hard need at the guard spot. I wasn't expecting Shelden to tear up the lousy front lines in the Rocky Mountain Revue. Frankly, he isn't that type of player. But what the RMV has clearly demonstrated, whether BK homers want to acknowledge it or not, is that this kid has struggles with athleticism and the NBA front lines are made up of athletes. His shot blocking will not transfer over much either. Two games in the RMV does not make a career. But Shelden's weaknesses are already being exposed for all to see. This is NOT how the #5 pick who is 23 and has 4 years of college under his belt is supposed to show. Its just not. And we can all wait for this to play out...in the end their will be few here who don't consider Shelden a bust. There will be several who won't admit it regardless because they idolize the GM. Shelden Williams was a bad pick. Now. Tomorrow. In 6 months. And during the next few years. His game does not translate to the league. But our brilliant GM settled on him back in May without truly taking the draft process seriously. He thinks he is smarter than everyone else. He is obviously not...I can't wait to hear the spin come out this week. Frankly, I'm tired of these clowns telling us all to be patient with players that they shouldn't have taken in the first place.

Guards and wings huh? Delusional. Those players you mentioned would kick his ass 10 ways to Sunday.

Why do you use dude in every post, dude? I call it like I see it. Shelden was a mistake. It would be nice if I was wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. But this pick was a huge stretch and we are seeing the signs of a 23 year old "ready" player not very ready. You can sugar coat this all you want...I couldn't care less. Even if he is proven to be a bust...some will never admit because there is some BK worship here that is really bizarre.

Shelden should have fouled out after 12 minutes...I Know thos cagey and crafty Dallas summer league players are hard to stop but that's ridiculous. Yeah. Its obvious whats going on. It was obvious at the draft. Some people just don't see it.

Marvin had just turned 19...he was drafted on upside. We knew last year was going to be a learning year. Shelden, if you BK lovers recall, was drafted as a ready to go player. We couldn't even bring some guys in for workouts because we needed a player who was ready now. We were supposed to be drafting our starting PF. Remember? It wasn't that long ago...Shelden is playing against fringe NBA players at best right now, the kind of players he should be having a lot of success against. Shelden doesn't look athletic because he isn't...and he damn sure doesn't look ready. I hated the pick but was hoping for the best. It looks even worse than I thought and I wasn't expecting more than 8 and 6 this year. Shavlik Randolph looks a lot better right now. We had better make the SNT the deal of the century to make up for our lack of a 1st round pick this year. I thought we traded NEXT years pick to PHX...

People who blindly follow others despite their obvious incompetance have IQ's below goldfish. Also, comparing Marvin's poor summer with Sheldens game last night is ridiculous. Marvin had just turned 19 and was drafted on UPSIDE. Shelden is 22 or 23 and was chosen because he was supposed to be ready. Look at all the guys that we passed...and then look at Shelden Williams. If last night was any indication this was a bad draft pick...a total waste. He just isnt athletic...and he has no proven low post moves. The worst part is how BK went about drafting this kid...just blow off the draft amd promise a kid who nobody wanted in the top 8 anyway. BK sucks and it really getting old watching him and his eccentric ways. He has a strange way of doing business.

Salim had nothing to do with his low post moves, poor defense, or lack of rebounding against inferior opposition. No, Salim is not a PG and we would have competed better witha PG. But Shelden's performance was his own. Marcus Fizer is closer than Antonio Davis. Suddenly, the payoffs look farther away...Imagine Foye next to JJ...naw, don't torture yourself.

Great games by players don't necessarily mean that players are going to tear it up. BUT...Beware of players who look lost and lousy. Especially when they were supposed to come "ready". The summer league is a place where NBA prospects who have some game usually score a lot...doesn't translate to the league in the same fashion. But our guy was overmatched...in the Rocky Mountain Revue...that speaks volumes. He was a lousy draft pick and that will prove itself. There will be BK supporters that defend him saying that he is OK...he is not terrible...he contributes off the bench at least. Shelden Williams was not a top 5 player. That is why the other teams ahead of us never looked at him. He was in the 10-15 category. We are a poorly run outfit.

SWole, I was on the phone off and on for 90 minutes getting updates with a guy from a local sports station who I know in Salt Lake. I know radio guys from almost every market thru my business. I don't care where my quote came from...your a tool for questioning my integrity. I was posting occasional scores and was going to do it for the next game as well. But your such a tool I'll keep them to myself. I kept hearing "your boy looks lost"..."your boy is overmatched inside"..."our new pick who we all questioned in the 2nd round is taking it right at your him"..."he doesn't look very good, no confidence at all"...I sure hope those quotes haven't been posted anywhere.

We'll see in December if I am jumping the gun. And the two guys who you wanted...we will all be collectively sick that we passed them over.

I knew BEFORE the summer league. I was waiting for your love affair with this boob to come out and defend him. Shelden Williams type of game is not ready for the NBA. Period. He wasn't ready in March, April, May, June, July...and he won't be ready to substantially do much this season. All we can hope is that he can play some defense and help some on the defensive boards. Shelden is not the player we were seeking when we drafted him. GM's should know that...stop defending this guy. You defend every every lousy move he makes. He never makes a bad move right? Your credibilty defending him is lousy. Take your rose colored glasses off...BK is a crap GM who drafts players without regard to where they fit. And he doesn't even have the good sense to take the BEST players. He is ALWAYS leaving much better talent on the table for those picking behind us. He is a bad joke and Woody is his handpicked tool as HC. Is it any wonder why we are terrible?

Randy Foye. Brandon Roy. Billy takes Shelden Williams. That is all you need to know. Oh yeah, he shut his draft down a month early for this great piece of work. Shelden was drafted because he was the most ready? Yeah, he is ready...for some serious pine time. Woody will have to play him as a hack and rebounder off the bench. The dude doesn't have the offensive skills to score in the league unless he puts a lot of work in...too late for this year. Its easy to see why our GM was so in love that he was the only GM to shut down his draft. For those who think that Summer Leagues doesn't matter...your right. Unless you look like you can't play at all against the weak competition and look lost at the pace of the game...and the athletes give you problems. That is when the Summer League DOES matter. Last time I checked ALL the top 6 other than Shell passed their summer tests with ease. Our guy looks like Marcus Fizer. One last thing...Why do coaches like Woody and GM's like BK always quote Coach K and how sold he was on this kid? I keep hearing all of these Coach K quotes about how much praise he had for him...and if Coach K said that...well...he must be good. Coach K desperately wants his guys to do well. He is hardly the person to talk to because he isn't going to tell you the real deal. He wants you to take his guy. Our guys take it as gospel. I had a conversation before the draft with one of our owners about my concern about drafting Shelden. He didn't deny our interest in him...I then sent him an email detailing why we should take Randy Foye. In his response he stated how much Coach K thought of Shelden...I warned him that Coach K was not exactly objective when it came to his players. We now have another high lottery player who will spend most of his career coming off the bench. When you really look at Shelden's offensive game...he isn't close to ready. He has no low block weapons and muscle isn't going to work very well with his height. That is the irony...our staff doesn't even know when a kid is really ready. Their were 2 great guards that were ready...and they both play great defense to protect the paint. And we draft this muscle bound kid who lacks the athleticism to thrive in the league. The best part is BK knew last May...no need to consider anybody else. This is why we don't win basketball games...this team better get the deal of the century in the AL trade. We aren't nearly as set as many posters here believe. BTW, Salim is not a PG. Last year. Now. In the future. BK said he would be...I knew after watching him last year that PG is not his gig. Why does this boob keep drafting players and insist that they play outside their skill level? I can't wait to hear about Chill at the 2...its coming. Gotta squeeze this collection of players out their somewhere...even if its not where they really play. With BK as our GM you can kiss this team goodbye.

I talked with a radio analyst at the game from the Zone in Salt Lake. I know some radio guys there and was getting a mini blow by blow. I wasn't talking to an overhyped kid? Got it? These guys felt sorry for us...Shelden was that freaking bad. Its a great thing we shut down our draft in May. I also heard that we were the worst coached team he ever saw at any level. BK, Woody, and the Spirit. Quite a trifecta.

Shelden was totally overwhelmed with the physical nature of the game. He was taken to the woodshed on defense...funny, I thought that is why he was drafted. Roy and foye...ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Here we go again. If you can't even compete in the RMV...your in deep crap.

Doc, I didn't expect 20 and 10. I didn't expect a stiff either. Your boy BK is going to be canned at year end. Love him now because he will be following Woody on the first bus out of dodge. Summer means nothing...but I heard a guy who was there on the radio and he looked bad. For all of those people who said Shelden was ready to start at the 4...forget it. Marvin is light years ahead of him and it won't be close. I just hope we can get 7 and 4 off the bench from Shelden and I'm not kidding. He is a good kid and works hard so he will turn himself into a serviceable player eventually. I hope he can get us a few boards this year and play some defense. He won't be playing in the Rocky Mountain Review in two months.

I'm not gloating. I hate it. I go to every game. BK just sees things that others don't. Just because a guy tears it up in the summer doesn't translate to success during the year. But the top 6 guys have gotten it done...first test passed. Our guy is a stiff tonight. He started 4 years and was drafted because our genius GM didn't want to develop a player. I have said all along that Shelden isn't that athletic and that he has few good ways to score. You just can't overpower people...Shelden is an offensive project. How BK could shut this guy down and decide a month before the draft...wow. Shelden will be a role player and I hope that he can contribute some this year. He should be able to do OK in the Rocky Mountain Revue...he is a top 5 draft pick and he is supposed to be ready. The other guys look a lot more ready than him. Jazz up 30.