saloonyk8

While I'd like to keep Childress, I wouldn't mind him going because I don't know if we're going to resign the guy. We might as well get something decent for him in return and perhaps that would open up some money to sign Smoove.

1.) Who knows if Yi and his peeps would even agree to play in Atlanta. Maybe he ONLY wanted to go Golden State the whole time. 2.) I'd offer Shelden straight up. Take it or leave it. (That's assuming he agrees to play for Atlanta) 3.) The best offer from GState has probably been basically B. Wright...if they threw Ellis into the mix the deal would have been done long ago.

Here's my trade proposal which works in terms of salary and below I have addressed the "usual" issues with Bibby... Atlanta trades: Shelden Williams, Speedy Claxton, and Wright OR Lue for Mike Bibby New lineup: Bibby JJ Marvin Smith Zaza Law, Childress, Horford off the bench (or switch with Zaza at C depending on how it all goes). 1.) Consider that SacTown is considering Damon Jones and Gooden for Bibby. This is in the same ballpark as far as trade is concerned. 2.) We move Shelden. He really doesn't fit in to our team as well since we got Horford. We need to make that space available at 4 for Al and maybe even Marvin if Childress will be working into the lineup at 3. 3.) We move Speedy. Horrible move, let's us erase that right away. Guy is always hurt and his contract sucks too, we're on the hook for several more years. 4.) Bibby's contract is not that bad. It's a low risk move because he comes off the books in 2 years which is exactly when we need money to resign Smith. 5.) Wright/Lue is an expiring and unless we know we're getting something better than this is a pretty good deal to get rid of one. 6.) Bibby should be able to step in a make us a playoff team. No matter what, people should agree he'd be a huge upgrade at PG for us, and he's a veteran which we could really use with this young team. 7.) If Bibby leaves after 2 years, that's exactly the amount of time Law probably needs to develop into a starting PG. It'd be a nice bridge. 8.) We probably stay under the cap with this move so I don't think we'd have to worry about Belkin. 9.) Bibby is 29 years old. He definitely still has 2 years left in him. 31 is not over the hill. 10.) We'd have an experienced backcourt with him and JJ. I believe that's a young playoff team with Bibby, it's a low risk move, and gives us the ability to let Horford develop.

Quote: I didn't say a guy who can't "Average" 20. I said a guy who can't score 20... Carter was a 59% scorer which was rare for a swingman and he played next to a beast scoringwise (Jamison) but he still managed to get more than 2 20point games. Valid. I personally don't think Horford is going to be a 20-10 guy, but I would be happy if he got 15-8 and played close to the basket bringing defense and a low post offensive presence to the game...at least that's the hope.

I think giving Marvin's age and current salary, he may be more attractive than Nocioni (to an extent). The other part of the deal, Shelden vs. Noah, probably depends on Memphis...hopefully the see some game in Shelden, which would make this a deal they want to make. Zaza may be necessary though to get it done. But I have SERIOUS doubts about our ownership being willing to bring Gasol here. Given BK's history, I'm sure he has fielded phone calls to Memphis already.

I'd love to see Smith spend a lot of time at PF myself. With a trade for Gasol, our team success will necessitate Smith, Horford, and Gasol being on the floor at the same time and finding a way to make it work. Even without a trade, Horford, Smith, Marvin have to be able to coexist on the court at the same time as well. I THINK (hoping) Horford and Smith have slightly different games and may be able to complement each other well. I don't see Josh Smith as the classic lumbering sort of PF that parks himself in the low block and does his thing so I'm hoping the combination could work.

Quote: They have a better roster IMO. Much more balanced esp. now that they brought in J-Rich and if they can keep Wallace. They have their PG, their SG, two SFs, two PFs with one that can play center and a decent true center. They even have some scoring off the bench. The stone cold facts are that several Eastern teams have already gotten remarkably better this offseason through the draft or trades. We know that Chicago, Detroit, Miami, Washington and Cleveland are playoff teams. Now we have the Nets, Boston, New York, Charlotte and Orlando to deal with for the remaining three spots. IMO I don't know if even healthy we can make the playoffs next year unless we make some moves to balance our roster better. Miami, Washington, and Cleveland appear to be the top teams, but with injury history, I wouldn't be shocked if one of them didn't make it. If our frontcourt can play well I think we can compete with the teams at the end of the list.

Quote: They have a better roster IMO. Much more balanced esp. now that they brought in J-Rich and if they can keep Wallace. They have their PG, their SG, two SFs, two PFs with one that can play center and a decent true center. They even have some scoring off the bench. The stone cold facts are that several Eastern teams have already gotten remarkably better this offseason through the draft or trades. We know that Chicago, Detroit, Miami, Washington and Cleveland are playoff teams. Now we have the Nets, Boston, New York, Charlotte and Orlando to deal with for the remaining three spots. IMO I don't know if even healthy we can make the playoffs next year unless we make some moves to balance our roster better. Miami, Washington, and Cleveland appear to be the top teams, but with injury history, I wouldn't be shocked if one of them didn't make it. If our frontcourt can play well I think we can compete with the teams at the end of the list.

Quote: While I think that core is ridiculously talented and has killer potential, Josh Smith seems to be the consensus PF on this team, so moving him to SF may not be in our best interest. I would love to add a Gasol-type player though. I just want to maintain some depth. I'd love to keep depth too. But if we ended up trading Shelden and Marvin for Gasol I don't think many Hawks fans would be upset. Maybe we can try to keep Zaza and throw another expiring their way.

Could we still make that deal and stay under the cap? Isn't that an issue with Belkin? I'd love to add Gasol and keep Horford and Smith...that frontcourt would be ridiculous....JJ and Law in the backcourt.... We can worry about depth later, with that core, we're good enough for playoffs next year and can contend for eastern conference if a few things go our way. I'll take that anyday over waiting for Marvin to pull a Rashard Lewis and waiting for Shelden to grow 4 inches to play center.

Quote: Why is that guys like Boozer can play along side Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Duhon, and still be a volume scorer? Or why a guy like Laettner could play along side Grant HIll, Bobby Hurley, Thomas Hill, Billy Macaffrey, and Antonio Lang and still be a volume scorer? Or why a guy like Larry Johnson can play alongside of guys like Stacey Augmon, Ackles, Anderson Hunt, and Greg Anthony and still be a volume scorer? Or how Sam Perkins could play alongside of Jordan, Worthy, and Black and still be a volume scorer?? The problem my friend is that you don't understand the college game. There have been plenty of volume scorers on stacked teams. Either you have it or you don't. There are no excuses... You show me a guy who can't get 20 points as a college player, and you have shown me a guy who probably won't do it as a pro either. That's the bottom line. Didn't Vince Carter avg like 14.5ppg at UNC and then 18 in the NBA as a rookie?

Quote: I think Noah will be a better version of Chris Anderson. w/o the drama and w/ more heart. a fan favorite, energy player who can be a solid role player as a starter or as a backup player. I think Varejao probably the best comparison.

1.) Childress, Speedy, Lo or AJ This would let just sign Darko for like 8M or so per year, which will be close to his going rate. Gives Orlando a nice young player in Childress +1 expiring contract. They also get another point to run with Speedy...they'd have to swallow this part of the deal. 2.) Shelden, Speedy, Lo or AJ Same deal as above but Shelden may appeal to them more. Either way we get our C and they get a young player and a small expiring. Sounds better than letting him walk to Charlotte or someone else for MLE...to me anyways...

Quote: Not that I don't trust you, but can you provide a link? I am looking for it, but no luck so far. http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives...up_in_kg_trade/ It's from the LA times...

Quote: I like Andris Biedrins, but there is no way in hell that I trade both Al Horford and Josh Childress for him. JOSH CHILDRESS ISN'T A THROW IN PLAYER, NO MATTER WHAT THE TRADE IS!!! I wish people would get this through their heads. Every damn trade I've seen proposed with Josh Childress involved has him going to another team for a clearly lesser player than he is. Whether it is the Josh Childress for Jose Calderon or Josh Childress for Luke Ridnour trades, they are horrible trades. Again, I like Andris Biedrins, but you do not trade Al Horford and Josh Childress for Andris Biedrins alone. You trade that combo for Biedrins AND Monta Ellis, but not Biedrins alone. I like Childress, he's a good, solid player. He's not quite Shane Battier, but I think he's close. However, if there's a trade to get us a true starting center, Childress, in my estimation, should not be the player holding us back. Most Hawks fans would also trade Childress before Marvin. I don't think GS would go for Biedrins/Ellis. I don't think they'll trade Biedrins at all because they're in love with him...but they just might if they're getting KG...we'll see.

I think they'd want Horford over Marvin.

Horford has a nice mid-range jumper too.

Quote: So let me get this straight. We trade the #3 pick ( horford ) and the #6 pick ( chill ) . . just to get Biendrins, the #11 pick in the 2004 draft? Biendrins = all defense and rebounding, no offense. Horford = defense and offense and rebounding Chill = decent defense and decent offense and a decent rebounding SF Trade two lottery picks, just to bring in a defensive center here? Some of you have completely lost your minds. I understand not wanting Biedrins...a 21 year old defense/rebound center...but if he were in this year's draft, he'd be a top 6 pick. It's idiotic, however, to think that Childress has #6 pick value. Would Milwaukee trade Yi for Childress? I think not. Would Chicago or Philly trade Deng/AI for Childress? Nope. Could Milwaukee or Atlanta get CP or Marvin/Bogut? Nope. Just because a player is drafted at that position a few years ago, doesn't mean they still have that value. It's stupid to think otherwise. BTW...Are we going to give Childress the 6M/year for 4-5 years (I think that's Luke Walton money right now)... with this ownership...not sure about that.

Why not get in on the KG movement to land us a center... Atlanta trades: Al Horford Childress Atlanta receives: Biedrins Min trades: Kevin Garnett Min receives: Horford Harrington Wright Childress GSW trades: Biedrins Harrington Wright GSW receives: Kevin Garnett Harrington thrown in for salary purposes. Golden State gets to keep Ellis and basically trade Biedrins/Wright for KG. Minnesota gets Horford, Wright, and Childress for KG. Atlanta gets Biedrins for Horford and Childress. Plus, we're not adding more payroll so no veto issues. New lineup: Law JJ Marvin Smith Biedrins GSW core: Davis, Ellis, Jackson, KG, O'Bryant Minnesota core: Foye, Brewer, Horford, Childress, Wright

Taking Horford was the right move considering the other options... 1.) Gasol - I'm still hoping Horford is the centerpiece in a trade for Gasol. 2.) Conley - I would have been happy with Conley, even though I know he's basically going to take 1-2 years to develop...but when the draft shook out, there was no decent big to take at 11. Taking Conley at 3 would have made us trade Al Thornton or some other scrub at 11. So from that perspective it was good. 3.) Yi - As for Yi, it's hard to know what he's going to do. Latest report I saw was that Yi's team would ask him to be traded on Friday...I can't wait for that, I've hated the Bucks ever since they had the 6th worst record and got the top pick over us. If we really want Yi I bet we could still get him + something for Horford.

It wasn't a total bust, but it wasn't exactly right either. See last 3 years for examples. We're good at making an okay call and getting someone who is probably not a bust. Congrats to the Suns for the lottery pick they should have next year...and for keeping Amare.

Law is NOT going to be as good as Conley. We drafted another forward to play at the 4, for which we have several candidates. If we wanted the true solution, it would have been Conley, plain and simple.

Shoot me for the Amare trade. There better be something brewing in the Gasol/Horford department.

Quote: It's hard for the Hawks ownership to pass on a deal that never got going. Phoenix was never going to deal Amare Stoudemire. If they were willing, he would be a Hawk right now. Were there any media reports that the Hawks actually approved the trade??? Everything I read said they vetoed and they are idiots for doing so.

Their defense at PF/C didn't get any WORSE with the trade. Frye and Francis weren't doing anything for that team and they just got a guy that's 20-10. It's a nice individual move for the Knicks...they'll be better. People need to realize no one is out there offering defensive big men for garbage like Frye/Francis. And if our owners weren't so cheap, we could probably have gotten Randolph for Speedy/Zaza. It wouldn't make our D any better, but we didn't have any 20-10 guys last year either.