sillent

This is a move that although I definitely don't mind keeping will probably end up being flipped again for a bigger move.

Why???

Because if not it will go on record that we essentially traded JC for Patty Mills.

That doesn't hurt our team as currently constructed but I know Landry's ego is speaking to the back of his brain like "you know you can do better than that". lol

6 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Dre had a solid season and needs to be sold now. There is some likelihood he regresses and/or gets injured.

He doesn't have the dog factor to take his game to the next level but he is a solid rotation player for years to come.

That was my thought on Dre since we drafted him. He's proven me wrong in good ways and bad but I got a feeling if he is who I doubted that he was, that he will prove me right this time.

If he doesn't have a break out yr this yr (barring health) then he is exactly what I thought and what you said. Like I said though Dre has a way of proving me wrong.

13 hours ago, sillent said:

Lance Stephenson, Wesley Iwundu, Taurean Prince, Cam Reddish, Evan Turner, Jabari Parker, Dennis Schröder, Jeff Teague, Rajon Rondo, Lou Will, Allen Crabbe, Damien Lee, Vince Carter, Frank Kaminsky, Jeremy Lin, Vince Carter.... What do they all have in common? 

Just a few of the 83 players JC has played with since he's been a Hawk. If I seen my place of work have that much of a turnaround. Especially a place where teamwork is crucial I'd look at that particular business a little side ways as well.

I definitely understand we've been doing what we had to do which was putting pieces together that worked and made/makes sense.

I hope that it works out for both sides which I'm almost sure it will with Huerter being a good example. Farewell JC appreciate your time here and do your thing. Glad we sent him to the West. I don't want to see JC dunking on our heads and afflicting revenge 4 games a season lol.

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/John-Collins/Teammates/83940

I don't know if it's telling that Trae Young didn't mention him as a guy he needs to increase chemistry with during our 1st summer league game.

Meaning I don't know if that means Dre will be traded before the season starts but I do believe that when Dre goes dark (unseen) for the summer that means he's really putting in work.

I've been trying to think of a worthwhile trade for Dre and besides possibly PG 13 (which many are opposed to for age/injury reasons) or Jaylen Brown. I don't see too many pieces that would fit good in his place.

I think if Dre comes back this summer like I believe he will kinda like Jaylen Brown did when he got his handles up and became more consistent we will be looking at Hunter as one of the biggest bargains on our team and possibly that legit 3rd star.

Ironically if we were to replace Dre the best fits may already be on the team to be dynamic SF's on both ends if we play JJ in that position or Mo Gueye is ready.

Either way I think patience is going to be our biggest asset this off season as we continue to grow within and our young players continue to get better.

Hunter has surprised me at many steps of his career and I don't expect much different. As soon as I assume that what we see is his ceiling is of course when he's going to show us not to put him in that box.

I can't wait to see how all of our young players have grown as individuals and what that does as a whole for our team and with a new system in place.

If summer league is any indication there will be a lot more driving, player movement and overall action going on in our games vs standing around and watching the pick and roll and waiting on the corners.

If Hunter's handles come back crisp or improves even remotely close to AJ's and I know his shot should be better than Hunter might end up being a problem for this league that we all thought he could be. I'm still waiting to see him do more on defense but even still he does a lot of things unseen (placing, positioning/angles etc).

Here's to hoping Hunter not being too visual this summer shines a bright light on all the work he put in "in the dark". If so I can truly see this yr as Hunter's break out season and our unexpected trio and team overall doing big things looking the same (as far as players go) but different (as far as overall production).

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's the Shoes 

Looks like Bruno's shoes if anything

3 hours ago, gurpilo said:

This was easy, Hawks were up and we did not have the size to stop or fight Queta and they won the game. As simple as that.

Or ball handler that could control, manipulate and dictate the game. We still could've won but turnovers and botched plays vs dominance in the interior made it difficult.

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

I wonder if AI could start scouting players, and would it do a better job than humans ? Preconceived notions about players strongly influence how they are viewed. If you're a lottery pick they will give you chance after chance no matter how much you suck. If you're an undrafted guy you have to absolutely ball out to even have a shot to make a roster. Sometimes I get the sense teams are more interested in validating their choices instead of being truly objective about prospects.

AI definitely can. I was working on that for a school project between 2006 - 2008 in college. AI is way more advanced now.

6 hours ago, Final_quest said:

The pick we got back from trading Adriean to Minnesota was used for Kevin Huerter.  Which means if we trade for KAT and give them the Sacramento 1st we would be flipping that same asset back to them again.     

Not to derail the Gueye thread. 

Ah nothing wrong with bringing it back full circle. That's life.

Lance Stephenson, Wesley Iwundu, Taurean Prince, Cam Reddish, Evan Turner, Jabari Parker, Dennis Schröder, Jeff Teague, Rajon Rondo, Lou Will, Allen Crabbe, Damien Lee, Vince Carter, Frank Kaminsky, Jeremy Lin, Vince Carter.... What do they all have in common? 

Just a few of the 83 players JC has played with since he's been a Hawk. If I seen my place of work have that much of a turnaround. Especially a place where teamwork is crucial I'd look at that particular business a little side ways as well.

I definitely understand we've been doing what we had to do which was putting pieces together that worked and made/makes sense.

I hope that it works out for both sides which I'm almost sure it will with Huerter being a good example. Farewell JC appreciate your time here and do your thing. Glad we sent him to the West. I don't want to see JC dunking on our heads and afflicting revenge 4 games a season lol.

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Can’t wait to watch it! Did Kabs do anything? Oh man!

Good game overall. I'm about to rewatch lol.

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Can’t wait to watch it! Did Kabs do anything? Oh man!

He was straight and so was Trae's old teammate but Gueye and Queta on the Kings were probably the best big men overall out there. 

Queta is the type of 7ftr I've been looking for on our team.

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Playing their 1st Summer League game against a team with 2 games played sure was close for the baby Hawks.  Guess we got to see some action tonight for the 1st time in ages!  Gueye looked good, didn't he!

Gueye definitely should be special once it's all said and done.

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He got aways to go to be a backup PG. Hope we can get TyTy by game 3

True. Not worried about our overall guard game of course having 2 of the best.

Kreiji is versatile enough to make a case for himself as well as a fill in player/position.

I actually love that Kobe had this type of game because I know he will be in the film room. Summer is definitely the time to make rookie mistakes.

Ok we may have to make some room for Queta if nobody picks him up. 

14 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Now sign Okungwu and Bey! Forget these expensive high risk players currently on the market. I prefer the depth.

This^^^

On 9/9/2022 at 9:17 PM, sturt said:

First... the idea that you're going to give "prizes" to millionaires seems a bit self-deceived, don't it... "to be determined prizes" indeed.

But I vote yes. Why: Because it's a half-step... just a half-step, but it's progress... toward sufficient out-of-the-box thinking to allow NBA decision-makers to re-shape the framework of the season to maintain all teams' fans' interest from October to June.

(... reaches back into the archives... )

 

After actually reading/checking out the data portion of your post it sounds pretty good.

My only next question would be is or would the schedule now be created on the fly based on results? If so how will they go about selling tickets and packages?

What if people only wanted to see a particular city or player?

I'm sure those details will emerge but overall I think the concept will be pretty interesting. 

On 9/9/2022 at 9:17 PM, sturt said:

First... the idea that you're going to give "prizes" to millionaires seems a bit self-deceived, don't it... "to be determined prizes" indeed.

But I vote yes. Why: Because it's a half-step... just a half-step, but it's progress... toward sufficient out-of-the-box thinking to allow NBA decision-makers to re-shape the framework of the season to maintain all teams' fans' interest from October to June.

(... reaches back into the archives... )

 

Not going to act like I even attempted to check out all of this yet but I completely agree with the bold statement.

I have noticed for awhile that the players definitely play games amongst themselves within the game to keep it interesting and to keep an 82 game season amongst them yr after yr.

When our star player who is only 24 and was even younger when he said he was bored with the regular season there has to be more things in place to spice it up.

These games that the players play amongst themselves in the game from (anything you can do I can do better, or who can make the most 3's, longest shots, keep it close until 2-5mins in the 4th)or whatever can sometimes be a detriment to the fans.

Games that should've been won sometimes result in a lost and sometimes it negates the true competitive nature of seeing who the best is every night and keeping the bar high instead of lowering the bar to keep it fun by towing with lesser opponents.

The league has done a great job with balancing out the competition. Last yr there were about 24 teams that atleast on paper looked like they could compete and atleast make the playoffs.

Still though the more the players are engaged and competing the better the games will be for the fans and the overall health of the league. 

They may not get these tourneys right initially but eventually it could evolve into something that keeps everyone engaged yr round.

53 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

It's impossible to imagine that members of this fan base would think that a guy on a team with Barnes, Vanvleet, OG that finished 10th in the east just last season, who has no interest in the Hawks, who is an inefficient scorer who no long plays defense, can't shoot, teammate can't wait to get rid of, who wants a supermax, who is at best a 1 year rental or by some miracle the Hawks convinced him to stay by paying him an average of $52 mil per season which is more than any superstar in the league including the 2 time and current MVP with the last year of his contract during his 35 birthday season...I just have a hard time believing that anybody wants to gut the Hawks for player who is no better than Murray. Didn't anyone learn anything from the Murray trade. It made the team worse period! Maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah I literally would only do this trade if it made sense and truly helped us or pushes us forward. I could easily rock with what we have under Quinn before making any major moves.

We have such a deep team and so many players now that some would have to be offloaded regardless of what we do.

I do not believe in a trio of Trae, DJ and Siakam

If we got Siakam DJ would have to go and we have his replacement in Kobe Bufkin.

I wouldn't trade none of OO, AJ, JJ or the rooks. Honestly I'd love to keep Bey as well.

Guruba would be an offer on the table as well as a few other pieces to make it work and to free up player space on our roster just in case we need to add another person from summer league or free agency if anyone worthwhile is left.

I'd be just as shrewd and stubborn as Toronto seeing that they may have the upper hand as far as what we want but we have the real leverage.

Toronto is a crumbling team trying to mend the pieces and trying to raise value by holding on to old memories. Yes they won a chip but that high came down as the Kawhi and Lowry factor dissipated. They couldn't even make the playoffs last year.

We on the other hand are already on an upward projection by having a new yr with a new system under Quinn and alot of weapons. 

Trae and DJ put up record Jordan/Pippen numbers in a so so yr together. Imagine a year where the chemistry is better and DJ is definitely playing out of his mind like most do in a contract yr. Speaking of chemistry all of our players will have more chemistry playing with one another with additions like Bey, JJ and AJ having room to get more pt. 

We freed up a log jam by trading JC for our younger hungry players that are getting better in front of our eyes for those paying attention.

Honestly the ball is in our court which is why I don't want us to get desperate about a trade or make one just for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses.

Miami showed us just how important chemistry is over looking good on paper and if we can agree on anything it should be that we have more and better talent than Miami had last yr. You can argue the results but you can't reasonably argue that.

If it works for us and in our favor and could truly push us forward than go for it. If it may get us an inch closer just to take 2 steps back down the road then what are we really doing?

So far the front office has shown plenty competency so I don't doubt that the trend will continue. Even if we do nothing I believe we will be the ones shocking the NBA this up and coming season even with a team as youthful as we are our players on court demeanor is well beyond their age.

Trae Young is only 24 just to put that into perspective but when you hear rookies looking at AJ as a young vet at only his 2nd yr in the league that speaks volumes because they themselves are coming in very poised.

Our young players just have a different fire in their eyes that you usually only see from the greats even if they aren't as talented as the greats. I saw it in Dwayne Wade his rookie yr, KD, LBJ and etc... I really think we've drafted well and after seeing what that fire and a great coach has done for Miami I'd love to see that with us having a more talented and bigger roster.

Everybody knew the main thing Miami was missing was height which is why I've been adamant about a 7ftr the last 4yrs now but either way with Clint and OO we've still been able to compensate and compete.

Unless the right pieces are traded for Siakam to truly push us over the edge I'd stick with what we got. Honestly guys like Guruba and Ty Ty Washington can be very serviceable in backup roles and I guess summer league will help us figure out who to keep or what to do with guys like Vit Kreiji , Tyrese Martin and those that unfortunately might be on the edge of actually making the team.

We can make the trade or we could stand pat. As long as we don't put too much on the table we're good either way. It's Toronto that really has the tough decisions to make and it's not our job to make it easier for them.

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

The deal is dead!

What happened or you mean that particular offer?

On a serious note. I would do Siakim for DJ, Guruba, Bey (only because of $$ contract extension etc) and Mathews. I possibly would replace Bey with Hunter based on money and fit. I wouldn't mind giving a pick either but I do think that would be over doing it. 

I do think Siakim and Trae would be a good fit. I think Siakim, Trae and DJ would be a little more disastrous but if we made a reasonable move to get him that also benefits us in a way. We currently have way too many players to keep possibly all the ones we would want so I don't mind a little overload.

I would be less willing still though to get rid of our younger core in OO, ,JJ, AJ, Kobe and Gueye. I really think those guys have all the tools to become something really special and with an early bond could possibly even give us discounts in the future to stick together. 

We already know AJ and JJ have chemistry from playing at Duke and JJ and OO play well together as well. Alll 3 can play atleast 2 positions and I've said this before but JJ is versatile enough to play the 1 (Ben Simmons with a shot and confidence) to the 4 possibly 5 in small ball action. 

You don't just give up young talent like that unless you're getting a bonafide game changer back.

A team of  PG Trae SG AJ SF Hunter or Bey PF Siakim C Clint bench PG Kobe SG Bogi SF Seth PF JJ C OO would be nice, deep and dangerous though I will agree. 

I do think Siakim would be a great example for Mo Gueye and I honestly would love to see him more developed with OO and JJ all on the court together with AJ and Kobe.

I know I'm looking into the future but so many random shot blocks coming from everywhere, high switch ability, shots from all over, ball movement and alleys would be fun to watch from this young core.

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

YOU DA MAN!!!

It's funny to think about it but this was our attempt to answer Boston and LAL's Big Three.

It looked damn good on paper... but in reality... not enough balls to go around (pause). 

 

19 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Nique didn’t wanna be in this photo but he’s one of the two of them. I think they killed our chemistry .

At a quick glance/scroll I thought someone was trolling Kyle Korver with that Reggie Theus pic

57 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Some people may not be fans of you, but you know your isht. 

I didn't know he was that terrible in the 2nd half of the season.

 

 

What did @Final_quest say?  

Don't trust Hawksquawk on a player that everyone likes?   LOL.

This ^^^ I've seen y'all beg for guys like Evan Turner and the guy y'all wanted over Hunter that couldn't hang with last seasons team for a full season. Jarrett Culver I think was his name.

Point is I'm glad a lot of y'all aren't our GM lol no offense but I don't trust alot of the talent evaluation around here.

Truth be told I'm guilty of liking talent over fit and mentals on occasions which has me rooting for guys like Josh Smith, Cam Reddish and Bol Bol but many of the factors outside of their talent I don't have access to see/know until later anyway (my excuse).

I'll go on record to say talent like Trae (of course) OO, JJ, AJ and all 3 of our rookies Kobe, Mo and Seth aren't easy finds. They actually have the mentals, heart and passion to go along with their talent. It would not be wise to just give that away.

DJ is a rare talent as well of course but I do think he can be replaced by Kobe and he's actually more in the mold of the talent I like (Smooth, Cam,Bol) but not necessarily always good for the team. 

DJ is a rare case where he atleast does have the mentals to play the game within the game though but that can be thanked by the NBA system that raised him.

I also think you need a guy like Bey on the squad and the humbling he got from Detroit makes him a perfect fit.

Honestly I like our entire team and think we can look alot different under our new system if we actually give a little more time to see what we actually have.

Right now to me we have the perfect ingredients for a special mix but adding/subtracting too many pieces can change the dish completely. That's cool if it's necessary but let's put it in the oven 1st and see how it turns out.

Last yr most teams made moves and Miami stood pat and I was like no way they are even as good as the yr before when they beat us. Turns out they let it marinate and because of it were even better.

31 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Absolutely not.  Siakam is not a selfish basketball player. Siakam is the type of player that actually could make Trae a lot more efficient.  And if people want Trae to play off the ball, you need a big who can facilitate and find shooters / cutters.  If Van Vleet and Siakam worked well together, Trae and Siakam would be a dynamic duo.

If anything, it might disgruntle DJ, if he's deemed to be the "3rd wheel".  He may not want that role, regardless of how successful the team is.  Chris Bosh solidified his Hall of Fame status by coming to Miami, and being that 3rd guy, despite having all of the tools to be a #1 scorer like he was in Toronto.

A passing big in our frontcourt is already an element that we see in JJ.  If Siakam gave us that too, there's no telling what our offense could look like, especially in the 4th quarter of games, where we struggled at.

 

DJ made us a more versatile team with how we can attack an opponent.  But he wasn't the problem with the team.  The lack of production we were getting from the frontcourt was killing us.  And we weren't a good defensive team at all.  And we still were notorious for giving up way too many defensive rebounds.

Acquiring DJ was a reactionary move for what the Heat did to Trae in that playoff series.  They loaded up on him and we didn't have guys in the backcourt that could make them pay.  DJ at least gave us that threat.  And despite the Game 5 suspension for bumping the ref, he had a very good series vs the Celtics.

Of course it's a gamble.  That's why I say the Hawks need to pick one of the kids ( or THE KID ) that they think has the most potential.  If they want to play more of the kids, then move the people who we know aren't going to improve, and let the kids learn on the fly.

When we do this though, expectations go out the window.  This is also an indication to Trae that we're more concerned about young player development, than actually taking steps to build a championship team.

 

 

Because it makes you even harder to guard.  Having another guy in a game that can take his man off the dribble can even make the lives of spot up shooters better.  The ball handler draws all of the attention, while the shooter is left wide open to make shots.  And if the ball handler can take his man one on one, that's an option as well. 

This is a different conversation if Siakam was a totally selfish player, but he's not.  His ability to rebound and immediately push the ball in transition is something that very few bigs in the NBA can do.  I believe he's 2nd in assists at the PF position, behind Draymond Green.

 

 

 

Star players sometimes make it work.  It's not a guarantee.  Minnesota in 2004 comes to mind.  KG is struggling to get out of the 1st round, with a young team around him.  Minnesota brings in 2 malcontent vets in Latrell Spreewell and Sam Cassell, to see if they would be better complimentary players to KG.  They immediately gel, despite one of their young players ( Wally Szczerbiak ) being hurt most of the year.  Like Trae Young vs Milwaukee, the T-Wolves were a Sam Cassell pulled groin away from possibly knocking out the then 3-time defending champ Lakers.

Most recently, the trade the Lakers did to obtain AD, by trading Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, and Josh Hart to New Orleans, was a great example of adding a player who had done nothing on his own, and trading your young core to bring him in to help your superstar.  They immediately win the NBA Championship after missing the playoffs 6 straight years.

You think we're building correctly? We will see, I guess.

I thought we were building correctly too, 4 years ago.

 

Kawhi wins nothing without Siakam stepping up and becoming the #2 guy on the Raptors, even surpassing Lowry.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.  I've presented more than enough evidence on my side ot show what Siakam can do. 

Wrong or right, I think you guys are just too attached to the kids.  I went though that before with the "Highlight Factory" of JJ - Josh - Al - Marvin.  At least those 4 played together 3 - 6 years before they were broken up.  They got a chance to build the right way, but they just weren't talented enough across the board.

I'll let you look at this down the road and see if you're not making my points. I agree with your 3rd paragraph completely that a passing big definitely does help our team overall. I believe that's why we got guys like Mo Gueye and Guruba so we can be versatile in that way. I believe Siakim could be a good mentor for them even as a rental but at what cost?

Again if we trade DJ for Siakim it makes more sense. Other than that it looks like what it is if we fall to Toronto asking price which is desperation.

Desperation moves rarely ever pan out like expected. I've been watching the team since Nique and I seen us make many desperation moves that cost us more than help us.

From Nique to a younger Danny Manning (a rental at that), to the gambles of trading Smitty for Isaiah Rider and Jim Jackson (looked good on paper). Shareef for Pau Gasol, Joe Johnson and his contract for Boris Diaw. The last one actually panned out but cost us Chris Paul since we told Joe he could be our 6'7/6'8 PG. 

Chris Paul, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith would've been nasty though. Especially if we were still able to add Horford but we handicapped ourselves the yr before with our promises and our "different" building strategies instead of going with what made basketball sense. Sometimes it's the after affect of the moves we make and the things we don't see.

I'm even cool if we gave up 2 players out of Clint, Hunter and DJ who are all good players themselves for a guy like Siakim (2nd tier Joe Johnson type at best). 

Any more than that and we're shorting ourselves and definitely making a desperate move that reminds me of the Shareef Abdul Rahim trade for the #3 pick Pau Gasol. 

Shareef was a good/great player for us. Pau Gasol was a game changer that actually gave the Grizzlies their 1st real taste of relevancy. 

Y'all are fighting over Siakim at any cost as if he were Giannis or Jokic. I would take him under certain stipulations. That's a big difference and could impact us in a major way if we put too many chips on the table.

Desperation is rarely ever a formula for success and to give away our young pieces for an aging vet or all star at best is no doubt a desperate move. Especially when he wouldn't be considered a perfect slotted piece like an AD or KAT would and they two are in a higher tier than Siakim.

Siakim fit well in Toronto's system. We honestly don't know if he's more of a star because he's a guy that thrived in that system or if he will actually propel us. JC may be a perfect example because I'm sure he's going to thrive a lot better in the Jazz system than he has in ours and then people are really going to go crazy that we just gave him away.

54 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What's the Bol Bol fascination besides being long.

He shot 8% from 3 in his last 35 games or something crazy like that.

Honestly I wanted to draft him with the 10 pick before I knew Cam. I definitely wanted him over Bruno but just like the fascination with Wemby he's a 7ftr with guard and wing like skills that can do it all on offense and defense.

Does he have the heart, passion and mentals do develop properly and be who he should? Probably not which is why we and most teams probably passed but the skills are there and rare for a guy his size.

I'm almost sure if Manute Bol was still around to raise/groom him a little more he would be more of a polished individual as well as have that ridiculous skillset to go with his size.

Same as Cam Reddish though you can have all the skills and talent but if you don't have the mentals to play the game within the game alot of times you will get overlooked and passed by no matter if you're a greater talent.