sillent

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

    

Not Considering Chemistry.... Recipe for Success!!!

I tried finding a picture with Nique, Moses, and Theus but none exists....

Not considering chemistry and just going on talent BOL BOL would be my choice hands down. Someone who could go up against the Wemby's of the world lol

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

It finally hit me exactly who Bufkin plays like. A young Steph Curry. Similar bag. Nice passing but not PGs. Fluid and agile af. Just that Steph is a long movement type whereas Kobe is a short movement type like Kevin. Kobe shoots well but nowhere near as good as Kevin and Steph is all world aka the GOAT so he doesn't have anywhere near Steph's offensive ceiling but he does have a high floor like Steph. His defense is much better due to height and length which Steph lacks. He can defend 1/2s for sure. That's who Kobe reminds me of, Steph or at least shades of Steph. 

I think I can see it thru a small peep hole and I agree he's destined for greatness as a guard that's not your typical PG.

Until he shows me different I still see him more as the DJ we hoped we were getting.

Skilled on both ends of the floor and high energy/motor guy who knows how to win. 

4 hours ago, AHF said:

I hope so.  I feel like I've been very excited about a lot of big men taken later in the draft over the years and they never seem to work out for us while other teams get Jokic, Montrezl, Millsap, Gasol, Dray, Boozer, Jordan, etc.  Maybe it is our time!

We actually had Pau Gasol with the #3 pick. We traded him for a win now player in Shareef Abdul Rahim... Patience is key

Also to add to @JayBirdHawk post

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

(( sigh )) . . . a lot to break down here.  But I'm off today, so I have time.

I have confidence that Trae can make the game a lot easier for Siakam, so that he doesn't have to go ISO all of the time. 

In fact, a Trae - Siakam pick and roll could be devastating.  But the flip side is that Siakam himself can be the ball handling facilitator in a pick and roll set with a big or a shooter, that can get the roll/slip man easy shots.

 

 

And make no mistake, it would be dumb to not make Siakam one of our featured scorers, if we get him back in a trade.  We're not using him as a role player.  We're going to use him as one of our top scorers.

Siakam easily takes 16+ shots if he's a Hawk.  As I said, I can see a scenario in which Siakam is getting the most shots on the team, while Trae's assist total goes up

Shots per game in a ball movement offense:

• Siakam - 18
• Trae - 16
• DJ - 14
• Bogi - 10
• Bey - 10
• Okongwu - 8
• AJ - 8

Despite Bufkin being here, DJ is stil going to get the majority of minutes at the backup PG spot.  These will be your main 7 offensive threats, with guys alternating who has big games among the top 3.

LOL @ showing 1 video of Siakam.  I've damn near posted 7 - 10 videos of him in various threads.  3 alone with him destroying US.  I've posted commentary, stats, you name it. You're the one dying on the one hill of Total Usage% + Total Shot%.  

I agree that his TS% should be better.  But I also agree that our superstar PG can see to it that it rises.  John Collins has a career 62% TS%. mainly because Trae has made his life as an offensive threat very easy with lobs to the rim, and by throwing him the ball for wide open 3s.

And now the guy is Shaq . . . lol.  He can't make FTs now huh?  Career 77% fro the line, but he's going to get "hack a Shaqed"?  Come on man.

If we trade DJ this makes more sense but I wouldn't give more than him Hunter or Clint possible Bogi.

8 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

You damn right we're worried.

Unless we have another high level player to replace Trae, we're counting on these kids to elevate this team to the next level.  Kids that we will have to give major deals to, just to keep around.

Excuse me for having more faith in the guy that was instrumental in seeing the Hawks making their deepest run into the playoffs in my lifetime.  Even a deeper run than my all-time favorite player Dominique. 

That's the guy I want to keep around, and surround with higher level players.  And that was Nique's issue.  He had great complimentary players, but never that 2nd or 3rd guy that the team could count on to help Nique carry the team.  His entire legacy as a player was tarnished, because people only saw Nique as a gunner that couldn't win in the playoffs, and not as a guy trying to do everything to help his team win games.

 

My question is what makes us think adding another ball dominant player that would make either him, Trae, Dejounte or all of them change their games in order to fit with each other work?

Wouldn't that push Trae out the door faster? Like @Peoriabird said if it's not for a Giannis or Jokic will it really be pushing us forward?

Did Dejounte push us forward or show us that chemistry is just as important as talent. We've lost a piece of our old core each yr now with the latest being JC (understandably) and Huerter (again understandably) because of how ownership operates.

We got DJ based on his son playing GM and it looked good and worth it possibly on paper. Besides the "name" it's hard to validate even on paper that a Siakim move would look good with us and honestly we're a yr or 2 too late to make an impactful move for him especially at the current asking price.

I don't get how some don't get that we'd be gambling our future on this yr making that move and if it doesn't work we risk losing all 3 of our stars in one yr ala Nets... If egos aren't fed properly and the chemistry is a struggle (which it will be coming into the door seeing as Siakim wants to stay in (TOR) and get his max.

It's bubbling water waiting to boil over and so many are to eager to empty the pot with no regards of the repercussions that could follow.

I'm all for improving the team. The 1st way to do that is to get a true evaluation of what we already have and then fill in the holes with the correct pieces. 

If you have a game changer like a Giannis, Jokic or guys that can truly change a franchise then of course you have to throw your chips in like Toronto did when they got Kawhi. Even then just like Kawhi there's no guarantee that it will last but atleast you know it was worth it. 

If we were getting a good player that would fit better like an AD or KAT I would even go for it because the roles are more defined and don't conflict with the other stars on the team. Why would I bring in another ball dominant player on a team that has 2 stars that are ball dominant by nature and position?

How could I expect that chemistry to magically be great within a year and at what cost am I willing to take such a risk? We have to ask ourselves these questions and be comfortable with pivoting if the answers and outlook don't project the best possible results.

All I know is build your core correctly you have potential for a dynasty. Chase after mediocre or even great stars that aren't necessarily game changers and you could find yourself more often than not doing that every year until we're eventually back in the same boat we originally started which is tearing everything down and rebuilding thru the draft. 

I don't know if the fan in me can go thru that process again because of us trying to skip steps without looking at the pros and cons. If it was Wemby I'd do it just because of his game changing qualities. Siakim isn't a game changer. He's a good player just like DeRozan was a good player. Kawhi was the game changer. That's the difference between being worth it and taking an unnecessary gamble.

Doing something for the sake of doing something leaves us with Sharife Abdul Rahim (good/great player) vs having a Pau Gasol (game changer)

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

(( sigh )) . . . a lot to break down here.  But I'm off today, so I have time.

I have confidence that Trae can make the game a lot easier for Siakam, so that he doesn't have to go ISO all of the time. 

In fact, a Trae - Siakam pick and roll could be devastating.  But the flip side is that Siakam himself can be the ball handling facilitator in a pick and roll set with a big or a shooter, that can get the roll/slip man easy shots.

 

 

And make no mistake, it would be dumb to not make Siakam one of our featured scorers, if we get him back in a trade.  We're not using him as a role player.  We're going to use him as one of our top scorers.

Siakam easily takes 16+ shots if he's a Hawk.  As I said, I can see a scenario in which Siakam is getting the most shots on the team, while Trae's assist total goes up

Shots per game in a ball movement offense:

• Siakam - 18
• Trae - 16
• DJ - 14
• Bogi - 10
• Bey - 10
• Okongwu - 8
• AJ - 8

Despite Bufkin being here, DJ is stil going to get the majority of minutes at the backup PG spot.  These will be your main 7 offensive threats, with guys alternating who has big games among the top 3.

LOL @ showing 1 video of Siakam.  I've damn near posted 7 - 10 videos of him in various threads.  3 alone with him destroying US.  I've posted commentary, stats, you name it. You're the one dying on the one hill of Total Usage% + Total Shot%.  

I agree that his TS% should be better.  But I also agree that our superstar PG can see to it that it rises.  John Collins has a career 62% TS%. mainly because Trae has made his life as an offensive threat very easy with lobs to the rim, and by throwing him the ball for wide open 3s.

And now the guy is Shaq . . . lol.  He can't make FTs now huh?  Career 77% fro the line, but he's going to get "hack a Shaqed"?  Come on man.

So no chemistry/ego problems here we're just going to let a new guy come in and be the face of the franchise and hope he stays past a yr.

Sounds like a recipe for success!! That's why all the big 3's have been so successful lol.

Honestly if Draymond and Klay didn't take a backseat when Durant came I highly doubt they win it all.

From this description though you have Siakim being the face of the franchise, Trae 2nd tier and DJ 3rd fiddle. I'm sure they all will be fine with that.

People love seeing new people come in and take over or get spots above them at their jobs. Especially those that haven't proven anything within the system of that particular job and they've been working there longer and carrying that franchise. 

Don't worry if it doesn't work out we can start from scratch in a yr and clean up the mess left behind because that's a successful business model right Brooklyn, OKC, Dominique?

History says if we don't learn from it it will repeat itself. Atleast Danny Manning looked young and promising at the time but who knows. Maybe this time will be different.

Maybe our big 3 will be better than any that ever tried and failed. 

Don't get me wrong I commend the try. I think Siakim would be a great mentor for Mo Gueye if anything even if it's just for a yr. It's when the try gets overly complicated and more than likely unnecessary that I have to take a step back and ask myself is it truly worth it.

I don't think it is to start a season with 2 of your 3 stars possibly leaving the season after or costing so much that it hinders our growth and development. If you want to build for mid tier every yr have at it but unless you have true game changers it's really just a gamble.

In this case I wouldn't put all my chips on the table because with Siakim it leaves us with a 4yr window at best and I'd doubt he'd be our 3rd best player by that time as he would be a high priced 34 yr old.

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

There is no way that AJ - JJ - OO is a better trio from a potential standpoint than Horford - Smith - Marvin were.  Heck, we watched AJ struggle mightily in the 2nd half of the season where he hit the rookie wall.  JJ played better as the year went on, and still couldn't get legit rotation minutes.  OO has improved, but no one can definitely say that he's better than Capela at this moment.

These kids are not generational talents. Because of that, they can easily be replaced.  It's not a coincidence that in 2021 when we made our playoff run, we made it basically without "Wingstop" ( Hunter and Reddish ). 

I'm rooting for our current crop of kids more than anyone.  I said back in January when we were struggling, that Nate's only chance was to start playing the kids more.  He didn't do it ( with JJ ) and it got him fired.

Quin seems to love JJ, but the jury may still be out on AJ in his eyes.  So it will be interesting to see what his role is.

 

Fans are fooling themselves if they think that all 4 of those guys are going to be impact players.  We might even have to get rid of Bogi, just to free up playing time for AJ.  Bufkin isn't a true PG, more like a combo guard, so we might even have an issue at that spot.

Here are the NBADraft.net comparisons for each player

• Kobe Bufkin ....................... Jordan Poole
• AJ Griffin ............................ Jamal Mashburn/Robert Covington
• Jalen Johnson .................... Stephen Jackson/TJ Warren
• Oneyka Okongwu .............. John Collins/Montrezl Harrell

Agree or disagree?

If you disagree, name the NBA comparisons for each player as you see them.

I think many of us are missing the key piece of basketball which I would've thought Miami showed clearly this past season. 

Everyone in the nba has talent. What puts teams over the top is chemistry, grit, heart, coaching, health/depth. 

Would you consider Jimmy Butler a top 10 player during the regular season? It's that extra will to win that catapults him to the top in the highest moments.

Is anyone on that heats team better than Al - Josh and Marvin talent wise? If not than that must mean talent isn't the only thing that gets you over the top.

Jabari Parker is more talented than Bazemore but who would we rather have at the time?

Sometimes we get so lost in the glimmer and shine of talent that we sleep on true impact.

Bruce Brown/Gabe Vincent weren't the most talented on their past teams respectfully but it's the true impact that creates real results. 

JC is better than Grant Williams but I'd like to see Grant here over him based on his low cost but true impact.

Even if Miami get Dame we are going to see the cost of losing true impact players from both Miami and Denver.

The young players we currently have on the team are impact players and impact doesn't always show in the box scores but it does in the win column. The versatility and energy JJ brings us undeniable. OO does so much for us at 6'8 that many want to start him over another impact player in Clint. AJ has been so impactful as a rookie that he already has 2 game winners under his belt which is more than a few stars that have been in the league and put up the numbers.

Speaking of how many game winners does Siakim have? Stars look good but end results is the key to advancing. 

What's different with this young core than young talented cores we had in the past is they are less about ego and more about winning. We get what we put our energy towards.

6 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Oh my gosh.  This should be pinned at the top of every post.  We just love our young guys because maybe one day they will be impact players.   We thought the future was right around the corner with Trae,Kev,Cam,Hunter,JC.  How'd that work out? 

Like you said no other player is good enough for us.  Folks called Derrick White trash and a low impact player when Boston acquired him.  He friggin rained 3s on us in the playoffs while playing good D. 

Here's what winning moves look like:

 

So did Boston win or are they having some of the same conversations we're having? The difference between them and us is they stick with their youth alot longer.

You mentioned Cam who I believed was a key piece being 6'8 long and a two way player to play along with Trae and motivated Hunter.

Instead we played Huerter another non defensive player along with Trae over developing Cam which would've been a better fit and better talent and obviously things began to crumble.

If we truly kept our core together we'd be having a different conversation but whether it was chemistry, ego or whatever our core didn't get a long enough run to see what we truly had and that team hasn't been the same since the Cam trade which is why we needed a Dejounte. 

If we keep planting seeds and digging them up before giving them a chance to grow we aren't going to ever see what the true results might bring. A tree doesn't grow over night and neither does chemistry or a winning formula.

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And let's stop this Christian Wood talk please.  Christian Wood is a true locker room cancer.

He didn't stick in Minnesota.  He was a bad influence on a young Houston squad.  And now even Dallas hasn't secured him to some sort of deal yet.

Do you know that Christian Wood is on his 7th NBA team in 8 years?  I bet none of you knew this.  That dude has been passed around more than a blunt at a house party.

Yes, he is a very talented NBA player.  No, none of his teammates go to bat for him, because he's an extremely selfish player.  Because of that, he ends up going to the bench instead of sticking as the starter.

As productive as he was in Dallas, even they sent him to the bench later in the year because his style of play wasn't helping them win games.

 

But don't take my word for it.

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2023/3/2/23621252/the-christian-wood-situation-keeps-getting-messier

Chauncey Billups was also a well traveled guy before he won a chip.

Ask Ish Smith how many teams he's been on before he won with Denver.

I agree chemistry does matter and the right fit is important which is the argument on Siakim and his playing style with the playing style of our star guards.

Still I won't ever judge a player for being well traveled (Cam Reddish) because all it takes is the right fit for them to show their true value.

Also if I had my choice Bol Bol would be the guy I bet on although I think Mo Bamba would be the safest choice and Christian Woods would be the most productive right away.

Honestly I'm good with staying pat atleast until we see what we truly have under our new coaching system but if we had to make a move I tossed those names out there to show there were cheaper alternatives.

All of those moves come with a high risk/high reward if they fit including Siakim but they would be less of a risk as far as finances/sacrifice goes. Again if Siakim wanted to come here it would be a different story but fighting for someone who doesn't feel the same in most relationships usually don't end up too well.

Someone's always left disappointed and unsatisfied.

40 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I want us to have the pressure to be a contender though. Just happily making the playoffs isn't and shouldn't be enough.

I agree. What is slightly baffling now though is we don't even know what our team is yet under this new system.

If Quinn is who he is supposed to be which I believe he is then we haven't seen what our team is capable of yet.

The Warriors weren't "contenders" until they won their chip the 1st yr but on paper they looked like a West coast version of our 60 win Hawks. Honestly our fates could've crossed paths if we stayed the course that yr but we stopped our ball movement after that magical January and then key defensive players got random injuries that cost us when it counted.

Miami last yr is a good example of teams that weren't considered contenders and even the Nuggets to some degree. Stay the course, play hard and play as a team and most NBA teams have enough talent to go the distance. 

I to want to win it all not just once but multiple times. No matter what the analyst label us as (they are mostly wrong anyway) we have an opportunity to show something different.

Now if we start to spot the true holes in our team after playing in the new system of course correct them but like the Nets and others have shown having stars and being labeled contenders doesn't necessarily win you a championship. 

If that's the case the Bucks would've had more, Suns, Celtics, Lakers and etc... A label doesn't get you the chip the on court production does and in this era it's the deepest teams that win it all.

Emphasis on "team".

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Siakam is a 2 time All-NBA level player at the PF position. 

He's a top 5 player at his position at least.  And he's a top 25 player in the NBA.

That is not hyperbole.  That is a FACT.

 

 

From this example I see inflated numbers from a game that had to go into overtime and I'm not sure if it even lead to a win.

Most importantly I see what I thought/knew about Siakim which is a big that needs the ball in his hands alot.

Pa

ir that with guards that are heavy ball dominant and I see 3 good players taking turns with getting theirs but not a good team. 

Out of 53mins I barely saw one defensive highlight from Siakim and overall he's initiating the plays for catch and shoot players not for players who would be able to create plays for themselves and others.

Some players look better in the right system. We struggled last yr getting the ball out of Trae and DJ's hands because they weren't comfortable not running the show. Now tripling down is the way?

Not saying it can't work but right now it's a hard visual and for the price it may cost now and in the future it just doesn't seem worth it.

If I saw those same highlights that included a beast/monster on the defensive end I might change my tone but for his skill and size I don't see the extra edge that it would give us having 3 ball dominant players who aren't as focused on defense as they can be or should. Especially when the offense evolves around them. 

Who's going to take the step back and would that be healthy for that players ego and the team overall? To have 2 rentals at this point that will both be playing for contracts sounds like ego issues waiting to happen down the road.

Either that or Trae eventually getting pushed out and like someone said Danny Manning all over again. Stars/Superstars always give a team an extra edge. All stars can have one to a few good seasons.

This isn't just a trade and it's done situation. This is a situation that will effect us now and in the immediate future as well as possible yrs to come based on this decision and that's a lot to put on a new front office that has been making great moves so far. Just saying I'd be cautious about pushing the button too far before I actually figure out who we are from the moves already made.

We may look similar but we will not be the same team that we were last yr regardless under the new coaching system.

As much of an advocate that I've been of Travis Schlenk I'm really liking his successors so far.

We ended up getting one of the cerebral coaches of this league which are far and few.

We got Saddiq Bey without losing any key players or players at all for that matter.

Our draft in my opinion was fantastic with the guys we brought in (Kobe Bufkin, Mouhamed Gueye, Seth Lundy)

They understood that it was necessary to get rid of JC no matter the cost.

Made a sneaky good underrated move trading with Houston and getting 2 young/highly serviceable players. They are cost efficient now and should be in the future but I think we would come to love Guruba as the player we were wishing in Bruno and Ty Ty Washington jr can be a very serviceable back up PG.

On top of that we got 2 (possibly very useful) 2nd round picks and a million in cash to give away a player most of us didn't know we still had rights to in (Alpha Kabba).

I'm not too impressed with the talks of Siakim because of the price/cost of it all but the fact that they have a clear goal and target and are adamant about the type of players they're adding or trying to add to our team speaks volumes.

Our summer league should be a testament to how deep we are and hopefully we do big things there that carry over into our season. I think it will be the 1st step to showing how there is power in numbers and having a deep team with hard nosed/skilled talent.

Overall I'm highly impressed for a front office full of "newbie's" and I'm looking forward to seeing their overall vision come to fruition and produce great things for our organization.

Great start so far!

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

@sillent  The problem is Big three.   A lot of Squawkers believe that because they have seen Trae and Murray in Nate's system.. even being coached by Quin that we can't win.

I disagree with that.   IF we just stood pat and added a few pieces and developed the rest, I think we would be championship quality.  Otherwise, why did we fire Prunty?  Nate/Prunty didn't offer us the best that we could be.   Their system of offense was very old.. back to isoball.   Quin used it because there was no time to implement what he knows can work.  I'm willing to see what he can implement.  I accept his recommendations on personnel.   If he feels that we don't need Hunter, then I'm trading Hunter.   IF he feels that OO should start... so be it.   IF he feels that JJ should play more... OK.   

We have all that at hand... but let's see what our coach can provide before we start making decisions based on what Nate left us with.  Now if Quin says he needs Siakam to win the chip and that having AJ, JJ etc is not enough... so be it... I will ride with that too.   However, I need this to be a moment where the coach and the GM is in perfect Sync. 

 

 

 

 

I actually was going to state something similar so I agree. I think we have more than enough to still win and compete and it's all about chemistry, development and want to...

We have or at least had more talent then Miami and look where a great coach and hungry/willing players took them.

If Quinn is who we believe him to be and need him to be then with a roster that consist of hungry young players that haven't fully developed or reached their prime should be a dangerous team in his hands.

Last yr Quinn had a completely different coaching staff and did more fitting in then implementing. This yr this team is his to implement in his vision and we have more than enough weapons to compete ( Trae, DJ, AJ, Bogi, Hunter, Bey, JJ, OO, CC) and that's not including the rookies who I think very highly of and the other talent on our roster that could be sleepers with the right tutelage.

I know Trae wants to see some change but Trae also "believes" in Quinn. If it were up to me I'd atleast wait until mid season or so to see where we stand under a new system before making any drastic changes.

I get the JC move because it was a marriage that needed a divorce on both sides as well as cleared up a log jam for us. I believe he'll do great in Utah and the debate may resurface on who's better him or Siakim... 

If we trade away our some of our youth now for a rental that might not put us over the top we may begin to start being looked at like OKC in yrs pass and possibly now. Good enough to draft great talent but not "smart/responsible" enough to keep them. 

We truly don't know what we will look like under full control of Quinn and his different philosophies. Can we atleast see that 1st before we make a possible franchise hindering move "going for it" or should I say possibly getting a little better. We still don't know how having a more ball dominant big would work with 2 ball dominant guards and in most big 3's it's pretty clear who the 3rd guy is. Would Murray really be the 3rd guy to Trae and Siakim? If Trae has shown us anything it's the guys with the ball in their hands that dictate others games and effectiveness.

How willing would Siakim be to possibly play 3rd fiddle if he doesn't get the ball that much? Or Trae or DJ have to take a backseat? Chemistry matters and honestly for the cost the fit doesn't seem that worth it when we got guys that we know already can fit and still have so much more to bring to the table.

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Most of the board don't like Wood because they say his defense is bad.   I think his defense is not as bad as they do.  He has the timing of a shot blocker.  He has a high motor.  In Dallas, who did they pair him with?  First they played him at Center.   And then they put him out there with Reggie Bullock at PF.  And they are supposed to cover for Luka...

I think with OO, he'd have a good yang to his ying defensively. But who knows.   The great thing is that even if he doesn't work out, there are other options.  He can come off the bench. 

 

 

 

I agree because isn't that truly what team building is about? Not having as many stars as possible but putting pieces together that can fit well with each other?

Did we not learn anything by watching Denver compared to the Nets not too long ago? 

On paper teams hardly ever are the victor when it comes to the championship. Before Steph, Klay and Draymond started winning chips on paper besides Steph they were barely even considered allstars.

I think Christian Woods, Bol Bol and Mo Bamba could pair with both OO and even Clint because they add extra size (meaning help in the inside) but also thrive in the perimeter. 

Most importantly low cost high reward if they pan out. Not saying either one is better than Siakim (atleast not yet) but they all can have a positive impact on our team whether starting or off the bench and would add a different dynamic to our team by giving us size and versatility that we did not have in the past. 

Siakim's cost may just be a little too high when you look at other alternatives.

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

We won't ever win anything.

We act like these young players are pieces of gold, despite having no evidence whatsoever that one of these guys are going to turn out to be an All-Star level talent. 

Then we poke holes in actual All-Star talents and act like they won't help us.

AJ, offensively, has the best shot to be a star.  His spot up shooting looked to be legit.  And I personally liked what he did when he drove into the paint.

JJ is probably going to be at best, Josh Smith 2.0.  A utility guy who is a jack of all trades.  But he may never be a good enough shooter to be a main offensive option.

Okongwu, while we all love him, isn't even a top 20 center at this moment, if we want to keep it real.  Very good defensively with his man defense.  Still very raw offensively.  I guess everyone expects him to become Bam.

Meanwhile, Siakam has developed enough to make 2 All-NBA teams, while functioning as the team's #1 option scorer.  Yes, his teams didn't win anything after Kawhi left. You know why?  Because Toronto is Atlanta South.  A team with a bunch of young talent that isn't good enough to get to that next level. 

We're really talking ourselves out of a 2 time All-NBA player, and acting like he can't help any other squad if paired with another high level player?  Is that what we're doing now?

 

Miami is trying to add a nuclear weapon, and we're content with trying to beat people by throwing rocks at them.

 

If we were talking about Durant then I'd agree with you. We aren't talking about Durant. We're talking about a guy that is around 30yrs old (in or possibly about to dwindle from his prime).

Let's see what a guy like JJ, AJ, OO looks like in 2yrs under a developmental coach like Quinn let alone their primes. People are willing to even add Kobe Bufkin possibly until they see him play.

What truly makes all four of them alot more special than the typical rookies/young players and it's the intangibles that are unseen. It's their heart, love for the game, will to win and will to be great at what they do that will lead each and everyone of them to a successful career.

As much as I love Josh Smith his love/mentals for the game were in question at times and showed as result once his skills/talent slowed down. There's no denying Josh's talents could've took him further but he needed to want it and on many occasions he showed contentment and coasted off of ability instead of that true want.

I've seen it in Trae during his rookie yr even thru all the misses and mistakes he just had a different factor about him. 

I see something similar in AJ,JJ, OO and Bufkin (honestly all of our rookies)... There's a reason teams aren't so quick to give up on young players even for a known talent and honestly I think the timing is off for us to look too far into Siakim to the point of where we are now.

I understand that we promoted getting something done but sometimes the best moves can be the moves not made.

I'm sure Indiana felt that way after they traded Kawhi and could've had him and PG together in their youthful stages. There are numerous examples but it's the 1st that comes to mind. 

If Siakim wanted to be here like DJ claimed at the time or had some yrs already locked up this might be a different conversation but right now we just look like the dude going after a model (that's not even a pageant winner or the runner up) that we've dreamed about but may bring us more problems than good in the long run and possibly the short run. 

We have to know our worth and prove it by showing we can happily move on or happily stick with what we have because we know we aren't missing much.

On 7/3/2023 at 6:00 PM, Diesel said:

Let's start Here...

https://www.nba.com/game/chi-vs-tor-0052200111/box-score

 

While we were destroying Miami in the playin game.   Toronto was losing to Chicago.. mightily.   First the game... Toronto wasn't missing anybody.  Everybody came to play.  Hell VanVleet gave them 26 and 12 and shot 53% from three on 7 made threes.   Damn.   Barnes even contributed.   And yes, Siakim gave them 32 points.   BUT...  Chicago shot 48%.  That means that damn near half the shots that Chicago put up, they hit. 

Now, if Siakim is supposed to be a defensive stopper, what happened in Chicago?  Interesting thing is that they played DeRozan at the PF.  DeRozan is 6'6" 220 pounds.   Surely he didn't outmuscle Siakim?  So I wanted to be thorough.   Here's what Dorozen did...

 

It's not a lot. Just mostly in the paint.   You know why?  Toronto was running a 2-3 zone, and Derozan called for the clear out and ran down the middle and dunked it on whoever was there.    Maybe this is why Nurse was fired.   Then I looked again and said, well Lavine scored 39 points.  Maybe he was doing something to open the floor for DeRozan...  So I looked.

 

You can watch the highlights.   Lavine was getting his points the same way.  Attacking the inside.  In certain times, there was a question about Siakim's point of attack defense.   Isn't that why we want him??

Maybe that's just one bad game.   Everybody can have those.    Well, Van Vleet was an allstar.. wasn't he all NBA too?  the real question is.. 

Why were The Raptors in the lower seed of the playin to start with??

Hawks fans are jumping up and down about getting Siakim and OG.. but the question is.. why were they not good in Toronto?

 

Thanks! The grass is not always greener. Even still I don't mind us seeing a target and going for it but my biggest question is are there no other alternatives?

We look pretty desperate at this point in my opinion and honestly although they may not be on Siakam's level I do see alternatives still available that could help this team and have some pieces of what Siakam may offer.

I will continually stress that we are missing a 7ftr on our squad that makes us completely versatile meaning I would be looking for a Center but there are a few good/decent ones out there other than getting too desperate for Siakim a guy that might not honestly want to be here.

Christian Woods is still a free agent and can be an option B. I also truly believe a guy like Bol Bol is a unicorn and will shine in the right system. Why can't we be the right system? To a lesser note talent wise in my opinion Mo Bamba is also still a free agent.

All of them would be a better option than Bruno to me and wouldn't be as big of a financial risk as what it would cost to bring in Siakim. 

Again I get setting a target and going for them and also that he would be a great example for our rookie Mo Gueye to learn from even if we could only keep him for a yr... I'm just wondering are we atleast looking at alternatives and have that game plan in place before the free agent market completely dries.

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Naw. That's too much for PG13 

Hunter and Capela with picks. PG13 is a tad too old for this package from anyone. I would prefer to do any trade for PG13 without Murray in it.

I didn't say picks unless we're getting them lol... I agree I would want another sneaky acquisition for them whether picks or a slept on player (ex. Terrance Mann) or a position of need.

I'd probably be more comfortable trading Clint and Hunter for PG if we actually did get Mo Bamba or Brook Lopez. Say what you may about Bamba but I believe he's ripe for the right team to help him become what we know he can.

I feel like the Lakers if any team will do that for Cam Reddish this yr so it would be nice to have a similar return.

Trae, DJ and PG would also be a legit big 3 while keeping DJ as an insurance star if PG goes down.

41 minutes ago, Watchman said:

No.  PG-13 lives on the injured reserve list.

I feel you. If we weren't as deep as we are I'd be worried about that too.

Last trade rumor I saw was DJ Murray and DeAndre Hunter for Paul George.  If we don't think DJ will resign add a 1st or two 2nd round picks and I'd do it.

Starters: PG Trae Young SG Paul George SF JJ/AJ PF Bey C Clint

(One out of our young stars would truly get to blossom out of AJ/JJ)

Bench: PG Kobe Bufkin (DJ replacement) SG Bogi (6 man candidate) F AJ/JJ/Lundy 

C OO

If we get Brook Lopez or Mo Bamba in free agency we'd be a tough, deep and complete team.

Paul George age not only would not hurt us but he'd be a valuable locker room presence for all our young players. He gives Trae another legit star to play with and a humble star at that. At his age he's hungry enough to win it all now and worse come to worse we'll be blessed with his presence this up and coming season and get a massive contract off our books for next season. Which will make it easier to extend our young players like OO/Bey and company as well as have cap space possibly to sign a big name free agent after this season.

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

We literally drafted his (hopeful) replacement with Adriean Payne. RIP 

It was just an assumption. Adriean (Rest His Soul) could atleast be assumed to play C alongside Paul but again assumptions. I couldn't really tell you why.

On 6/26/2023 at 2:50 AM, NBASupes said:

I'll add defense tomorrow but before I continue, I want to say, what the hell was BudCox doing drafting Bembry ahead of Siakam and they worked him out too. 

I get it, I am Capt. Hindsight right now. But Siakam's defense is real. You can see it in workouts. His jumper doesn't look broken, unlike Bembry. His speed and motor were Bazemore-like. How do you pass on him for Bembry? I just got done evaluating these three and I can see how someone can pass on JC or Gueye. But Siakam plays defense exactly how we were playing defense at the time. He had the length and ability. How? Seriously, HOW? 

I'll talk about Siakam's defense tomorrow. His biggest draft issue was just not enough film playing man defense since NM State is a massively large team, Siakam plays PF and his center is usually very big and not mobile so they have to stay in a zone. That said, when Siakam played man, it was legit ya'll. Even with mistakes, he easily erased them. Offensively, he was limited but he showed a promising jump shot. We just flat-out missed on him and it's insane. Siakam should have been drafted by the Hawks. 

Fit/need is my guess. We didn't want to tarnish Paul Millsaps ego possibly as he was the current "star" of our team.

Add Brook Lopez with new additions Bamba and Malik and let Quinn do his job

I actually would consider a trade for Mo Bamba, Malik Beasley and 2nd round for Clint Capela.

We get younger and taller with Mo and centers tend to develop late so we may be catching him in stride plus he wanted to be drafted here. 

We get 3 point shooting with both and it also gives us the flexibility to start OO with or without Bamba in the lineup.

To top it off Mo Bamba and Mo Gueye could be 2 unicorn like bigs to take into the future.

1 hour ago, sillent said:

If I had it my way mine would be 

Starters 

PG Trae Young

SG Dejounte Murray

SF Saddiq Bey

PF Onyeka Okongwu

C Deandre Ayton

 

Bench

PG Kobe Bufkin

SG Bogdan Bogdanovic

SF AJ Griffin

PF Jalen Johnson

C Brook Lopez

 

Honestly I'd be happy staying pat but with all the talks of more changes to come I doubt we do that. This team would give us size and I believe Onyeka can move into the power forward spot with a good shooting/3 point shooting Center. With Ayton the Hawks can have their "big 3" plus plus because of all the versatility on the team. I'd add KAT too but I'd doubt we'd be able to get him without tearing into our new youth movement (Bey, OO, JJ, AJ, rooks).

I think Suns may prefer Clint/Hunter/Bogi but to keep salary under wraps they may only be able to get 2 unless Saddiq Bey replaces Hunter but I know we want to keep Bey for the long haul. So I guess we'll see how it goes. 

Honestly again personally I'd add Brook Lopez and stand pat but if we have to make a bang this is the route I'd go. 

Didn't do the math but if we really wanted to make a splash I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up looking like this.

PG Trae SG DJ SF JJ PF KAT C OO

Bench

PG Kobe SG Seth SF AJ PF Kyle Anderson C Brook Lopez

It would be nice if we could squeeze Knight out of Minny too but it would depend on how they value him. I'm sure though if they get rid of KAT he'd instantly become more valuable to them. We'd probably be giving up Clint, Hunter, Bogi and Bey but it would give us 3 legit all stars (2 possible stars/superstars) and still have a nice bench. Knowing Quinn one of Kobe or Seth wouldn't play much but either could play at SG with Trae and DJ off the bench.