sillent

21 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....yeah he's not a SG.

Can he dribble, pass, shoot, defend wings?

Positionless basketball people. He can be whatever we mold him as. A GM in a box is a losing GM.

Who's to say we can't mold him into our Ben Simmons (with a j) within the next 2yrs?

30 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Look.. I hate Duke.  In fact, the only Duke player that I have ever really liked was Grant Hill.   And you know I hate MWill's..  But this 7 foot Guy has the ability to be a good rim runner.   He has good court awareness and good feetwork.   He's more polished than Duren.. I think he could be a steal in the draft if you're willing to develop him.  I'm really enthused about his defensive timing.   Lastly.. I think he's going to get bigger.  I don't know exactly how big he is now.. I would say 7 feet.. but his frame suggests that he will put on 20 more pounds of muscle and maybe eek out 1 to 2 more inches. 

Found this:

Check him out...

 

Damn, I didn't know about the passing.  Shoot.. we should definitely get this guy. 

 

I agree. I'm higher on Mark Williams now then Duren  

I'd rock with this squad. Of course it would be after a little more development but we'd be a sneaky defensive juggernaut and still stay consistent with highlights. Besides John and probably Gallo our 3pt game hasn't ever been consistent so it won't be effected much.

PG Trae Young 
SG Jalen Johnson
SF DeAndre Hunter 
PF John Collins
C Rudy Gobert 

PG Sharife Cooper/Anthony "Cat" Barber   
SG  Skylar Mays/Kyle Anderson 
SF Kevin Huerter/Eric Pascal 
PF Onyeka Okongwu/Danilo Gallinari 
C MarkWilliams/ Jalen Duren

4 minutes ago, Packfill said:

To me this seems like a side-ways move.  The Hawks should go all in on a second scorer/shot-creator - ideally a big wing - and then fill-in with defensive types and a few shooters around those two offensive pieces.  To do that they are likely going to have to pay heavily in terms of depth/assets or take a risk on a player with some age/injury concerns.  

Honestly I agree. For me it's difficult because who is available that would be worth it for who we're trading? 

A lot of the young up and comings may not be leaving their teams and other stars are short (Beal, Victor)/ questionable (Ben Simmons/Ayton defense as the 2nd guy) or too old to build long term with.

What are some suggestions. I do like Ben and Ayton on paper.

On 4/24/2022 at 10:25 AM, RandomFan said:

All of this Ben Simmons slander is reminding me of how much I would like to have him on the Hawks, and what my dream scenario offseason would look like. Gimme Ben Simmons who will be 26 years old next season and gimme Deandre Ayton at 24 to pair with Trae at 24 for many years to come. Yaya, it's a pipe dream that probably couldn't happen, but we're talking dream scenarios and this is just for laughs.

Let's start by acknowledging we need to be building for at least an 8 man playoff rotation. Of course 9 is better and helps cover for injuries and if we can get that great, but we're shooting for a minimum of 8, with enough roster fillers to make it through the nicks and bruises of an 82 game regular season. 

Let's get the Gobert thing out of the way: Gobert is a bum, and overpaid at that, no thanks. He's a black hole on offense and can be taken advantage of on defense by most playoff worthy offenses.

Simmons definitely has warts, but let's not let that overshadow the things that he does that actually do make him a star in this league...still. He would be a great pairing with Trae, in PnR actions, a top 5 defender in the league capable of defending 1-4 (no, I don't like him at 5, unless it's against extreme small ball), can play 1-5 on offense, and can play backup PG when Trae rests. Obviously his one glaring shortcoming is shooting the ball and confidence, but we'd be trading that for all the rest that he brings to the table.

I almost forgot to add his ability to initiate the offense would allow Trae to grow into more of an off-ball threat. Let's be clear, Trae is not good at that right now, but with the roster's he's had, exactly how much opportunity has he had to play that way? Not much. People acting like Trae can't learn to be a great off-ball player are setting themselves up for disappointment. Are you going to bet against this kid being able to do anything he puts his mind to on offense? I'm not. People talk about he's no Steph Curry as an off-ball player, but neither was Steph when he came into the league; it's something he had to learn and get better at. Trae can too, IF it's something he's asked to do and IF we have the personnel to deem it worthy. 

Trae would also be a great pairing with Ayton since he has actually added a decent 3 point shot to his arsenal, and at 4 years into his career is still young and improving across the board. As a competent 2-way center Ayton is infinitely more valuable than a Gobert or even a Capela; he's likely worth the max contract he's looking for if he's in a heliocentric offense playing with Trae due to how good he is becoming on D and how reliant Trae is on a quality big that can set good screens, PnR, and throw down lobs.   

All 3 of those guys can share the court and thrive together, which isn't always the case with 3 star players, so they can open and close games together. But almost importantly is primarily Simmons' skillset would allow them to thrive in slightly different roles when one of them rests (we'd obviously want to keep 2 of the 3 on the court at all times).  

How do we make that happen and what kind of roster would we be left with? Good question, and I'm not sure on that. Outside of Trae I suppose everyone is trade bait, but there are several players I'd try my hardest to keep around if possible. 

Playoff rotation of 8+ players:

1. Trae
2. Ben Simmons
3. Ayton
4. Jalen Johnson
5. Okongwu
6. one of Huerter or Bogi (keep both if possible, but probably not)
7. Delon Wright - re-signed as backup SG, PG, wing defender.  
8. ??? 

Round out the regular season roster: 

Sharife

Solo Hill 

Skylar Mays

Lou Williams (if not traded)

TLC

 

TRADE BAIT:

Gallo

Capela

Collins

Hunter

Lou Williams (mainly for salary matching, and for us to dump his salary, nobody else is going to want him)

one of Huerter or Bogi (prefer to keep K'von. Yes, Bogi is better right now, but he's older, more expensive, and could be developing chronic knee problems. K'von is a safer future long-term investment.)

one of Jalen or Okongwu (as last resort, really prefer to keep both. If forced to chose I'd rather keep OO17). 

Draft picks

 

That gives us the option to do two packages of something like:

#1 - Capela + Bogi + 1st + 2nd + Lou FOR Ben or Ayton

#2 - Collins + Gallo + Hunter + 1st + 2nd for Ben or Ayton

Or any combination of the above players + future draft picks, I was just throwing out an example. Jalen or Okongwu could be used for sweeteners if necessary, but we really need to hold on to both in this scenario if at all possible. Assuming we are able to hold onto Huerter, Jalen, and Okongwu that leaves us only one hole in an 8 man playoff rotation. 

Assuming the starters are going to play at least 35 minutes per game in a playoff rotation is a safe bet, probably more but let's use 35 as a nice easy number for now. 

That has us filling the 96 minutes per game between the 4 and 5 with a bigs rotation of Ayton starting at 5 for 35 mpg, OO17 at 4 for 22 mpg and sliding over to 5 for the 13 mpg when Ayton rests, allowing JJ to backup 4 for up to 26 mpg. Ayton and OO handling all of the duties at 5; OO and JJ handling the majority at 4, with Simmons able to log some minutes there if needed as well. 

A PG rotation of Trae for however many minutes he plays, and then Simmons for all of the backup PG minutes. This year that was 35 mpg during the regular season, probably more during a playoff run. But at 35 mpg that would leave 13 mpg left over for Ben. I'm assuming that Sharife is only a regular season player under this scenario, but if he balls out next year and forces his way into the playoff rotation then those 13 minutes would go to him and it would probably turn into a 9 man rotation instead of just 8. I doubt we could play Sharife and Trae together in a playoff game defensively, which means Sharife only gets the minutes Trae is on the bench.  

That leaves us with 96 minutes left to account for between the 2 and 3. Assuming Simmons plays 13 mpg at the 1, that leaves him with 22 of those 96, reducing it to 74. Huerter takes 35 at the 2 or 3, leaving 39. Delon Wright gets the majority of those with a mystery 8th guy taking the rest. That could be someone like TLC, Lou Will, even Sharife; but most likely it would be one of those aging vets that signs on for peanuts chasing a ring like we've all seen over recent seasons. 

If you put a top heavy roster like this together with 3 star players, then some of these aging former top players are going to take notice and one of them is likely to take a chance on a ring for a vet minimum contract. But like I said at the start, it's probably all a pipe dream and I haven't even looked at if/how the salaries would work. 

I respect your thorough breakdown. Ben Simmons and DeAndre Ayton look great on paper but these past few yrs makes me analyze team building a little differently.

In a perfect world they both would be almost perfect additions. Both filling the 2nd/3rd star role and great to decent defense.

My conflict with them only comes with the mentals of the game (which is 70 - 90% of the game).

Miami beat us up physically and mentally. The physical beating actually affected our mentals. I don't think I have to put Ben's mentals on the forefront. As good as it would look on paper with Trae, betting that Ben would have the mental capacity when things get shaky and rough is very hard to see right now.

Ayton has had issues of his own but Chris Paul a player who has earned his admiration and respect has given him better guidance. He is still young though and what happens when a vet like Chris Paul isn't around and DeAndre is frustrated?

I'm saying that but I'd still rather see it than speculate. Still something tells me they may not live up to expectations with us. I'm old enough to remember the playoff promise team when we had Jason Terry, Stephen Jackson, Glen "Big Dog" Robinson, Shareef Abdul Rahim & Theo Ratliff and yes playoffs definitely seemed like a lock compared to the rest of our conference. Of course we didn't make it then it was a very disappointing 32 win season I believe but hopefully if we do this it'll be a different story.

11 minutes ago, RandomFan said:

 

Can you move my post? I was looking for an offseason post.

25 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I like, for a third center, Mark Williams from Duke.  What say you?

Definitely an advocate for Mark Williams. We can be scary if we have him Gobert and Onyeka.

If we waive and then resign Gallo I can see us looking more like this plus or minus a rook or two. The rook would more than likely replace Sekou/Tacko.

PG Trae Young (offensive star)

SG Kyle Anderson (second ball handler/solid all around)

SF DeAndre Hunter (2nd star offensively/defensively)

PF John Collins (40% 3ptr back to 20/10 + handles/defense)

C Rudy Gobert (defensive star)

PG Anthony "Cat" Barber (microwave/ solid all around on both ends)

SG Kevin Huerter (offensive threat/solid all around)

SF Eric Pascal (solid inside/defense)

PF Danilo Gallinari (good inside out offensively)

C Onyeka Okongwu ( Bam Adebayo mold)

PG Sharife Cooper ( Trae Young lite)

SG Skylar Mays (grit/chemistry/do what it takes guy)

SF Sekou Duombouya ( inexpensive project)

PF Jalen Johnson (JC/offensive JSmoove lite)

C Tacko Fall (Tall, aggravating body to score over anywhere in the paint or when his hands are up)

All of these players are tough in their own right and have hard work ethics which is big when it comes to fighting past tough competition. 

They would also be highly underestimated which gave us the edge the yr before last.

15 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I like, for a third center, Mark Williams from Duke.  What say you?

I definitely need to scout him since this is my second time in a row hearing about him. Right now I'm not too familiar.

28 minutes ago, sillent said:

Based on the available free agents and options we have what is a realistic way to build this team for next season?

Understanding chemistry is important (keeping a core), Cap room, happiness/playing time and most importantly the right collection ( players that will play hard and together/like a fist) and fit into Nate McMillan's static (but decently deep) rotations how would you build? 

So far this is a reasonable rebuild I can see. I'm struggling with a tall SG (not named Cam Reddish) so trying to get creative in this positionless basketball era but this makes us bigger, tougher and gives a chance for our surviving core (Trae, Huerter,Dre, JC,OO) to step up their roles which should ultimately make them happier and play harder. 

PG Trae Young 
SG Kyle Anderson 
SF DeAndre Hunter 
PF John Collins
C Rudy Gobert 

PG Sharife Cooper 
SGKevin Huerter 
SF Jalen Johnson 
PF Eric Pascal 
C Onyeka Okongwu 

PG Anthony "Cat" Barber 
SG Skylar Mays 
SF Patrick McCaw 
PF Sekou Duombouya/(Kevin Knox)
C Tacko Fall 

Players like Hunter/ JC get to step up their offense which is what they wanted and will definitely go harder for. Kevin Huerter can fight Herro for 6man. The whole second unit should be better by individual improvement and that 3rd unit may be slept on but a lot of the top teams have those kind of guys that often play key roles.

This squad is taller and tougher without loosing too much of the finesse and highlights that Atl loves to see.

I can see us waiving and resigning Gallo too to keep more fire power.

Clint and Bogi would have to go to get Gobert and I can see them forcing us to add Delon Wright into the mix while we possibly squeeze a draft pick and Eric Pascal.

Based on the available free agents and options we have what is a realistic way to build this team for next season?

Understanding chemistry is important (keeping a core), Cap room, happiness/playing time and most importantly the right collection ( players that will play hard and together/like a fist) and fit into Nate McMillan's static (but decently deep) rotations how would you build? 

So far this is a reasonable rebuild I can see. I'm struggling with a tall SG (not named Cam Reddish) so trying to get creative in this positionless basketball era but this makes us bigger, tougher and gives a chance for our surviving core (Trae, Huerter,Dre, JC,OO) to step up their roles which should ultimately make them happier and play harder. 

PG Trae Young 
SG Kyle Anderson 
SF DeAndre Hunter 
PF John Collins
C Rudy Gobert 

PG Sharife Cooper 
SGKevin Huerter 
SF Jalen Johnson 
PF Eric Pascal 
C Onyeka Okongwu 

PG Anthony "Cat" Barber 
SG Skylar Mays 
SF Patrick McCaw 
PF Sekou Duombouya/(Kevin Knox)
C Tacko Fall 

Players like Hunter/ JC get to step up their offense which is what they wanted and will definitely go harder for. Kevin Huerter can fight Herro for 6man. The whole second unit should be better by individual improvement and that 3rd unit may be slept on but a lot of the top teams have those kind of guys that often play key roles.

This squad is taller and tougher without loosing too much of the finesse and highlights that Atl loves to see.

17 hours ago, Diesel said:

If I had a shot, 

I would try to get Oladipo.  I would try to bring back Delon.  IF the "rumors" are true and we're definitely getting bigger, I will live with whatever big the Hawks brought in.   #16.. I would go after M. Will out of Duke... or Duren if he last that long but one of those project 7 footers who are rim runners.

 

 

If we do keep our picks I was looking at Duren myself. I haven't checked out M Will yet 

JC usually dominates Miami so a healthy JC would've made a difference. The roster constructed above is from our options and speculation.

I personally would've built differently from the start but my question is what do we/would you do now?

So we didn't get what we wanted or expected but definitely what we deserved based on how we played all season.

Trae definitely needed this humbling experience.

Since many of our weaknesses defenss/offense were exposed (team was built on/for commrradory meaning as a fist/one unit & efficiency which we definitely weren't) our team will go thru alot of changes come next season.

If rumors are true our team could look something like this next season 

Starters 

PG Trae Young

SG Miles Bridges 

SF DeAndre Hunter 

PF Onyeka Okongwu 

C Rudy Gobert/DeAndre Ayton

Bench

PG Delon Wright/Sharife Cooper 

SG Kevin Huerter 

SF Kyle Anderson 

PF Jalen Johnson 

C Clint Capela 

Bigger with better individual defenders. What do you all think? Who should we keep or how would you build based on free agency and circumstances?

On 4/12/2022 at 8:44 AM, Gray Mule said:

Three time all American.  6'2" guard.  Dream then added Naz Hillmon, Michigan, a 6'2" forward.  Yes, Sothron, our WNBA team plays their home games at the Skyhawks gym at College Park.

They weren't very good last season.  They have waived or traded most all of last season's team.  Their new owners came aboard last summer.  This season they have a new head coach and assistants and a new GM.  Fans are expecting a great, exciting summer.  They play when the NBA is not active.

GO ATL DREAM !!

I couldn't watch the Dream last yr even though there have been a few WNBA players that have caught my attention.

The Dream to me last yr was nothing to see nothing to look at (looked bad and played bad) so hopefully this turns that around.

Something definitely had to give. With the draft and new changes made it sounds like we're moving in the right direction.

I don't think many fully understood what I meant with this post. Not going to try to explain right now but hopefully the picture gets clearer after these next few games.

All I will say is we have a true villain on our squad whose towing with the league. 

On 4/18/2022 at 10:44 PM, JTB said:

I’ll keep it short…

 

I’ve longed said that Trae would highly benefit from an unusual freakishly tall long front court and I still believe that!

 While Trae did make the cavs look like he owned them in the play in game in whole 2nd half… I was highly impressed with cavs big front court lineup in the first half. Trae eventually started to break them down but the point is that a big front court like that can be impactful especially for a player like Trae! …I think you still have to have your modern day lineup for matchup reasons but it would be nice if we had a true big lineup we could go to , to surround Trae.

 

No offense to Garland but if Trae had a tall ass front court like that he would led the cavs to more wins than garland easily!

We definitely do need a 7fter. I've been saying and hoping that since last yr to help Clint/OO go against Embiid, Brook Lopez  Cavs and up and coming teams like the Magic (laugh now and other teams who understand the importance of size). 

The huge front court wouldn't be bad but huge defensive/perimeter wings like Hunter, Cam smh, Jalen Johnson and John Collins with handles and better defense.

JC is a few handles away from being able to be a hybrid 3 when necessary. 

Our lack of height does add/keep players that can run with Trae like Clint/OO/JC/JJ and efficient 3pt shooters across the board.

Trae needs a Cam like wing that can also handle guard duties. Hopefully Jalen Johnson can become that. Huerter isn't bad but doesn't make up for the defense Trae lacks. Hunter is a great addition with Trae. 

It would've been great if we kept/satisfied Cam and had Bogi, Huerter and Gallo off the bench with strong defenders like Delon and Onyeka.

I haven't checked out the draft but definitely 6'8 and up tenaciously defensive wings is what Trae needs most to start with. We were on the right path and not too far away.

On 10/18/2021 at 6:23 PM, sillent said:

I thought for sure we did this already but...

1 - What is your prediction for the Hawks 82 game record? 60 Wins

2 - How many All-Stars will the Hawks have this year and secondarily who makes it? Trae, JC, CC ( I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter and Bogi made it either but it might be harder for the wings).

3 - Rank the following players by who will play the most total minutes (so list all 4 in order from most minutes to least and that is total minutes not minutes per game):  Lou Williams, Jalen Johnson, Solomon Hill Sharife Cooper (just for minutes not impact)

4 - How many Hawks will make the end of the season All-Rookie team and who makes it? Possibly none although they both should qualify 

5 - Rank these players by best 3pt% from highest to lowest:  Bogi, JC, Gallo, Trae, Kev. (Tough one but I think usage rate will put them in this order.) I also think Hunter will be high on this list.

It was a weird yr  

Great podcast I actually didn't fall asleep lol. Great insight on the inside of our organization, their mindsets and their overall view and perspective of ownership and the front office.

22 hours ago, kg01 said:

And it wasn't just him.  That's why I cringe when folks act like we don't need Gallo.  That guy serves a real purpose for us.

Gallo's like @marco102 at the office party.  Guy ain't turning down shots and he don't care if Susie from accounting doesn't approve.

You pretty much hit my point on the head. Every single one of our players has their vice (which is normal). 

The great thing about our team is all of our players are special weapons in their own right especially when they play their role to perfection.

Like you say Gallo rarely takes his finger off the trigger but his height advantage and surprising mobility makes him a clear advantage for us on the court. Kevin's mid range is a weapon. Delon, Clint and OO energy, rebounding and defense. I can go down the line with each of our players.

Iso Bogi is a weapon when he's in his zone mixing up the bag in the midrange and being a team player.

When he's Iso Bogi alone he's a problem.

Yesterday was a great example because he was great when he was playing within the team game (catch and shoot, mismatch Iso's, mid range and driving). I almost thought someone talked to him watching the 1st quarter lol.

After that though he did fall a little into just Iso Bogi again which will not cut it in the playoffs. It doesn't give us that extra edge like utilizing all our weapons and their specialties. We definitely gotta keep that edge/advantages because that's what's going to win us the chip this yr.

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

Bogi hit 1 shot in 5 tries... and there were two plays when he definitely should have given the ball up.   He gets caught in a double team and instead of passing out, he does some type of whipteedo shot that look like it came with Lions and Elephants and a car full of clowns.

I believe that in the offseason, Bogi will be our most valued wing.  He should be the wing that we seek to trade... When he's on, he's great.. but his BBIQ is low and his defensive effort is low. 

 

I'm not going to hate on his defense effort but yeah the capability lacks hence the reason I definitely miss Cam.

I hope his basketball IQ is better than he's been showing lately.

Get back to the basics. Bogi's hero ball/shots have been more detrimental than helpful to the team. 

I know he may make those shots in practice all the time but it's not productive on many occasions in the game.

I hate to say it but TLC probably would've been a better option in the last game in the 4th quarter. I understand Nate's logic (allowing Bogi to finish) but it was a clear disadvantage that last 4mins with the game tied and this occurrence has been happening a little too often.

I'm glad there was a chance to clearly see some of our flaws and hopefully shore them up before the Play In/Playoffs.

On 3/31/2022 at 12:56 PM, Atlantaholic said:

Yea, but we need to climb in the standings. Winning back to back road games against Charlottw and Brooklyn/Cleveland then having to take on either Milwaukee or Philly or Miami with home court disadvantage is a bit of a tall order. 

I'll just leave this here since it's more relevant. 

It's not a challenge if it's not a tall order.

22 hours ago, Diesel said:

Instead of GS...

I would say we have more similarities to the 2004 Suns.

Nash - Trae

Richardson - Bogi

Joe Cool - Hunter (he wish). 

Marion - (strange but...) Capela.  - This comparison falls down a little on scoring and Athleticism. (Marion was a 19.4/11.3) guy.

Amare - JC  IF we could only get Amare production from JC. 

 

Where this really falls down is the scoring of Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and Stoudamire.   These guys were scorers.    JC reminds me of Amare in that he is Athletic and gets a lot of his points inside and on Breaks.  Unfortunately, we don't run breaks like they did.  And this is where the break down occurs.   Nash averaged about 11.5 apg.  but a lot of those points were on breaks.   The game is different.  Trae plays slightly differently from Nash.. and our offense doesn't break..

But I wonder.

Could Trae be a fast break PG?

 

Sounds good and definitely comparable except Bogi is closer to Iso Joe than J Rich. Hunter might ironically have a better career than Richardson. Marion is more like what JJ can become.

We can stretch a few teams possibly that could match but we all know where Travis came from. We know.... We know... Maybe just maybe he was trying to make the Warriors of the South and made the Suns. Whatever taste better I guess

Guys definitely have to hit shots. A PG's duty is to make sure guys are in position to take/make the best shot but they still have to take and make it.

It's been half and half why Trae's assist numbers aren't consistently up. Of course the bunnies and open misses as well as a few times where Trae hasn't been getting them the ball in the right spots. I won't go in to detail into why but it has usually been around the end of games when precision is important but Trae is gearing up for the playoffs so I can almost bet that most of what we saw earlier in the season till now will be in the past.

People may not even remember how up and down the season might have been if we make the noise we're supposed to make in the post season.