sillent

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Anyone else counting the wins here trying to guesstimate a win total for us? 
 

Pretty soon it’ll be time for predictions on the win total. @JayBirdHawk won it last time I think with somebody else, Mac? 
 

I’m looking forward to making a Hawks biased guess. 

@Sothron 

@Sothron

I just counted 60 wins exactly

With our Hawks it started with the draft. Not only did we retain all of our assets but we got 2 more steals before the night was over.

Free agency we traded for Wright (while losing no on court production) and got Dieng (at a reasonable deal).

We solved 2 immediate needs back up point guard and back up center to help Clint/OO.

We of course signed our own 2 in Trae and JC for the future...

I did say most improved though and even if we win a chip we were only 6 wins away.

I believed the sneaky good/most improved teams are the Boston Celtics in the East and the Memphis Grizzlies in the West.

 Boston players that may be effective during season...

Marcus Smart/Dennis Schröder/Peyton Prichard/ Khris Dunn/

Josh Richardson /Nesmith

Jaylon Brown

Jayson Tatum/Enes Kanter/Bruno Fernando 

Robert Williams/Al Horford 

Not many were really paying attention to Boston but they quietly got sneaky deep. It shouldn't just be the Jayson and Jaylen show next season.

Memphis since they aren't in our conference I want break them down.

I can see both teams on each side surprising like we did and making the conference finals in each of their conferences.

A Hawks/Celtics Eastern Conference Finals would renew a rivalry but I expect us to come out on top and create a new narrative compared to the one that's been in the past.

I was just observing those taking notes but you're naming only 2 that should be starters by the end of the season.

Cam should be able to take Bogi's spot because of his defense.

The bench can attack with their offense.

Our Atlanta Hawks after pretty much 3 seasons of rebuilding from scratch made the ECF in the 4th season.

Not only did we make it to the Eastern Conference Finals but we took the Milwaukee Bucks to 6 games.

One of those games we won without Trae and with Giannis playing about halfway thru.

Other teams in the league took notice.

Dame Lillard has been unhappy than ever after seeing how quickly Trae has made the ECF compared to him in the last 4 seasons.

The Warriors, I'm sure are regretting letting Schlenk go. They were all in on the championship push once they got Klay back until they saw us. Now they are playing the fences pairing youth with their aging stars so they'll have something to fall back on.

The Grizzlies I've mentioned in another post but in short have recently found their versions of "Cam" & "Dre" (2way players).

The 76ers Process can no longer be trusted. We tore down what was left of it's last hopes.

New York is our new villain. Not because they can compete but because villains always emerge with this grand scheme and false hope. Until the hero comes and puts them in there place.

Hornets, I don't know what has gotten into Jordan's water or whoever's scouting and drafting for them but they are starting to resemble something that can take "flight". Reminds me of some birds I know.

The Lakers are trying to win the off season they were supposed to have beat us in last year. It's still yet to be determined.

The Bulls and Heat are "attempting" to have the type of off season we had just last year.

Not going to stretch our effect on every team but I think y'all get the point. Teams are taking notice that their may be a different way to go about building their teams. 

We look to be one of the teams many are starting to keep an eye on.

Are we seriously doing away with our best mantra/mojo MLK jerseys to the bad juju I don't care what it looks like mustard yellow jerseys?

Did they not look out our records before they made this decision  

Are they intent on winning a game with Mustard yellow and thinks this team has the best chance???

Too many questions. I think it'll hurt them in sales, wins, etc... but I hope I'm wrong...

They need to start asking us about these changes and decisions though... I'm sure the numbers would tell.

By the way I don't care what team I was rooting for I don't like either one of those jerseys. Possibly the Suns if I had to choose.

JC over Siakim hands down for me.

Honestly I don't see what all the hype is about over Siakim besides media's push.

JC has also bested Bam in almost every head to head occasion but of course "Bam" has the star power.

I think people are going to stop underestimating JC starting this yr.

Yeah Pelicans look like they might be on a verge of another rebuild before this one is even over.

Chris Paul, AD, Demarcus Cousins, Jrue Holiday, Lonzo Ball...

Who do they like and who likes them?

I think they gotta figure that out before I can truly believe in them.

Hopefully Ingram is that piece.

2 hours ago, AHF said:

You are so far off the reservation that I'm not going to keep this up but I will say there are a lot of players whose games have tried to be like Anthony Mason with balanced scoring (interior and perimeter), plus passing, and strong defense from a point forward role. Giannis is a like a super charged Mason to use one example.  Here is Giannis last year in his 8th season compared against Mason's 8th season:

Obviously, Giannis is better but both were hubs in their teams' offenses (5.9 assists to 5.7 assists), both led their teams in rebounding (11.0 to 11.4), both were disruptors on defense (1.2 steals to 1.0 steals), and both did a mix of damage around the basket and on the perimeter.  Giannis was obviously the more dangerous scorer by a pretty big margin but the roles they played were not that different for their teams and any number of teams would love to add someone like Mason to their roster today.  He wasn't the "goon squad" - he led the team with 11.4 Win Shares that season which was also 13th overall in the entire league.  You saying he was a "goon to protect the skilled players" as if he wasn't one of the skilled players makes me think you never watched him.  I can't come up with any other explanation.

Maxwell was an early 3&D guy.  His game is archetypal in this era.

As for a power forward who scores with his jumper, plays D, grabs rebounds and can move the ball on offense we've seen probably 100 of them.  The only difference between someone like Oakley and someone like Myles Turner is that Turner stretched his jumper a few more feet and Turner can't rebound as well.

So Bucks it is.... I can see that. What I want entertain at all is a Giannis/Anthony Mason comparison 1st time and hopefully the last those 2 names are paired.

You would've been better off saying Zion

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

The wait and see approach is always safer, but it only allows for value and demand to shrink.

The clearer our picture gets as to who is a keeper and who isn't, the clearer it gets for other teams as well. They will no longer covet the guys that we want to move, and will only want the ones we should probably  keep.

Peak value always includes potential growth. It's what entices the buyer. Sell high

Im happy keeping the group together. Im just a lot less afraid of the risk if we decide to make a move. We are loaded almost to a fault

There's been alot of intelligent post and statements. I think your posts says it best what others are truly feeling.

It's understandable to be afraid of the unknown especially because we haven't been in this situation before.

In those cases sometimes you have to ride the belief of others that know a little better. People don't have to take it from me but I will say I'm glad Schlenk is in control.

What he's doing isn't knew to me but it is new to the league. Still I can't say I'm an expert pass a game like 2k no matter how sure I feel until it's all said and done.

Still the most that can be asked is for us all to be patient. If for some reason it all implodes I'm sure there will still be opportunities (as there always is) to make adjustments.

There are more Nathan Knight's (unknown talents) out there then there is roster spots. I'm sure if we have to make moves and can't get our perceived value we will find value elsewhere.

I'm glad you're not treating a fire drill as if there's a real fire because honestly there is nothing wrong with our building.

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Also, to be the head of the snake is always your point guard. The Suns have CP3 and only for another couple years at peak level, remains to be seen if Booker, Ayton and Bridges could keep them going. 
 

 

That's exactly why I believe us, the Nuggets, Hornets and Grizzlies actually have the advantage until the Suns get their leader of the future.

Booker, Ayton, Bridges and Cam Johnson are a good start but we are setting a whole new trend. They have a great start but they will still need someone once Paul is gone to put the keys in the ignition.

6 yrs plus is actually typical for most rebuilds if I'm not mistaken. That's what makes what we've done so spectacular and unexpected and the best is yet to come.

Many doubt but are ultimately afraid of putting their money where there mouths are. I did decent last year but I was more trying to create/ prepare band wagoner's. 

They didn't listen and forced me to take their money This yr I'm taking all comers....

Hey mods!! Can the post above possibly be moved to the "We finally play on Christmas" thread. I didn't see it before starting this one.

1 hour ago, niremetal said:

These two paragraphs kind of sum up the reasons for my bafflement at this discussion.

When people are talking about the need to keep our "knowns" or our "core," they usually mean young/rising players like Cam, Dre, and maybe Huerter; those are the guys who the argument is we should hold onto, not Bogi, Gallo, or Capela--guys who actually played a much more central role in our second-half turnaround and playoff run than Cam, Dre, and Huerter did. The talk is as though our young guys aside from Trae and JC are proven quantities. They are not.

Dre had a great 17-game run in January before he got hurt. Yeah, that's right--17 games. Approximately one-fifth of one season. Since then, his knee has prevented us from being able to see if that was lightning in a bottle or something he can sustain over an 82-game season, after he actually starts showing up on teams' scouting reports as a guy to watch. Right now, he's the best bet to turn into an All-Star of the 3, but he's not close to a lock for that.

Huerter had a couple big games in the playoffs--most notably by exploiting a mismatch against Seth Curry over and over again in Game 7 against the Sixers. He's turned into a solid on-ball defender (though by no means a great one). He's proven himself a solid rotation player, but I still view late-season-Bogi as his absolute ceiling, and one he is not especially likely to reach given that his 3P% has been worryingly trending downwards since his rookie year.

Cam had a nice little 4-game run during the ECFs and has the highest ceiling of the three, but also the lowest floor because he just hasn't shown even a 10-game stretch of consistently average (much less good) offensive play yet in his career.

And contrary to what the second paragraph above says--TONS of guys peak/permanently plateau before they hit 25 and/or while they are on their rookie scale contracts. Again, just to use examples from my two favorite teams in the last 15 years--Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Greg Oden, Brandon Roy, Martell Webster, Nicolas Batum, CJ McCollum...hell, you can almost add JJ to that list (I'd say he hit his plateau at age 25). Guys getting hurt or simply being unable/unwilling to raise their game additional levels after they hit 23/24 is not exceptional. If anything, it's the norm. Pick a random NBA draft year and take a look at all the first rounders drafted #4 or lower, and count how many of them peaked by year 4. You'll be surprised.

So it's nuts to me to talk about our young guys (again, aside from Trae/JC) as "knowns" while guys with multiple All-Star appearances are "unknowns."

Like everyone else, I love our young core. A part of me is so excited by our collection of talent that I don't want to see us trade any of it away. But I'm also glad we have a clear-eyed GM in Schlenk who realizes that trading potential stars for proven stars is usually a good strategy, all other things being equal.

The known is that the sum of our parts work well together. 

It's known that we are more injury proof (with our depth) which is part of the "luck" that's needed for an extended run. 

What's known is there are power in numbers.

What's known is young players typically continue to improve until about the age of 26-28.

What's known is we're very good now and have only enhanced that during the offseason. 

What's known is injuries happen. If you put all your eggs in one basket you better hope that basket doesn't drop. 

What's known is a superstar egg usually comes at a high price if they aren't home grown and one injury could derail a whole season.

All I've done was taken all the "known's" into consideration and paired them with possibilities. 

Known or unknown it's random possibilities that come into the equation and the most equipped usually are the most prepared for the unknowns. 

I'm not just reacting from Fandom. 

Last year is the 1st yr I've made such a claim about a dynasty from the knowns I had available. Did I know Lloyd Pierce would flop with us know. I did notice how well his schemes may work with our team and that we had insurance with Nate McMillan.

I take all the knowns into consideration and than I make rational statements. (contrary to popular belief)

How do we know? Simply because we can always refer back to it. 

Getting one player that might push us over the edge. Might be able to build chemistry with the guys remaining. Might stay healthy enough to lead us all the way is a big unknown. 

It sounds good in theory. It looks good on paper but time and time again it's either a hit or a miss.

What I know is that's an unnecessary risk when we already have something that could be very special. To top it off or get back to the unknowns 3 or more very special possibilities is better than one. 

Would you rather have 3 strikes available or one?

I've seen who's at bat and I'm confident they can bring us home. It's cool if you're not and I respect that. Still 9 times out of 10 the logical person is choosing the 3 strikes instead of hoping for a homerun with only one swing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.peachtreehoops.com/platform/amp/2021/8/17/22629255/nba-schedule-atlanta-hawks-dallas-mavericks-tnt-national-tv-game-news-leaks-trae-young-luka-doncic

The media knows wassup but they get paid to stir up controversy. It's more entertaining.

I can't wait to see Cam slow down Luka to the point where a new topic in the Luka/Trae trade emerges. I'm sure by now Trae wants that too.

Christmas Day it is New York!! I know New York is going to give us there all. I hope we give them a show.

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Honestly?  I don't doubt that the Hawks can win an NBA championship as currently constructed.  I think they certainly CAN win one.  But I'll add the caveat that it takes a bit of luck or good fortune with injuries AND matchups to make it happen.  Let me ask you, are you certain that the Bucks beat the Nets if Harden, Kyrie, and KD are all healthy?  Are you certain that the Suns beat the Clips if Kawhi is healthy?  Or what about the Lakers if AD was healthy?  Are you certain that the Hawks, if healthy, beat all of those teams?  I'm not.  I think they'd have a chance, but I'm not certain they would have won a title.  

So the answer to your question is more about what things need to happen to give the hawks the best chance to win a title.  And to me, having the best players is one of the most important things to winning a championship as it just makes your margin for error some much greater.  And yes, I agree that the current roster COULD turn into the best players over time.  But they aren't right now.  And my hesitation is more about thinking that is less probable that multiple of the current players achieve their ceilings than it is to say KD or Giannis or Embiid would fit well with this team and win a title.  

IF we are talking about which is most likely, I'll take the better current players over the multiples of players that may or may not turn into great players. 

IF I tell you that none of the Hawks young players ever get any better than they are today, are they good enough to win a title?  I'd say maybe, if a lot things break their way.  IF I tell you that all of the young hawks reach their potential, are they good enough to win a title?  Absolutely and most likely multiple.  But the truth of what will happen is likely in the middle somewhere.  And I'm not currently convinced that it's a more likely scenario than if the Hawks trade for a superstar to pair with Trae and the remaining young players.  That's my point. 

I honestly wanted to face the Nets even before Kyrie and Harden went down. I was of course hoping we had Cam and Dre as well when I wanted that matchup. I felt we matched up better with them than the Bucks.

I do believe we could've beat the Clippers if everyone on each team was healthy.

I honestly expected the Lakers to get one more ring if they all were healthy.

The world would've been more on notice if we beat the Nets and gave the Lakers a good battle.

Instead people are questioning because so many different variables happened.

It's understandable. Your thoughts/beliefs are understandable.

What's not understandable to me is people wanting to trade off what is known for unknowns before the season even starts. Imagine if we did that when we were 14 -20? Even than it would've been more understandable.

The fact that we shored up needs and should only be better from a season ago is the baffling part. If people honestly believe our players aren't going to get better than their under 23/24 selves that's cool but not likely statistically. That pretty much means everyone besides Trae are definitely under 18-20 pts per game players if they've peaked now.

If the league just got extremely better to the point we may struggle to keep up I'd understand. 

If we made drastic changes or even a player to our roster that may mess up our chemistry I'd understand.

The fact that we've done pretty much everything right this offseason (locked up core pieces, added missing pieces, lost noone of value) just makes it hard for me to understand why people think we will be moving backwards.

Add in the fact that we've yet to have 1 game with our full roster this yr or last literally adds insult to injury.

I pray we have minimal injuries next yr but even so I know we have enough overall to keep pushing. If KD or any other of those star players go down can the same be said?

Yes a little luck is needed because of injuries and etc... Talented depth is the insurance for that. Meaning luck seems to tilt in the favor of those most prepared. We are a team most prepared at every position and for that reason I like those odds. Not saying one of those players can't help us but if they go down we are worse off. All of our eggs would be in one basket and all the luck in the world wouldn't keep me as confident as knowing we have backup plans.

32 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Just to be clear, this is NOT what I'm saying.  I'm saying I'd rather take the established, currently elite today player over the young, might one day be elite player.  I just can't get on board with this fantasy that the Hawks are going to win 5-7 titles by keeping the core in tact.  Not right now when only Trae out of the whole bunch has even been an all star.  That's just not the way the NBA works.  And given that, the added incentive of keeping the core together is just not there for me. 

YES, I truly believe that having KD instead of Hunter, Huerter, and Gallo (for example) would give the hawks a better chance to win a title.  Maybe multiple titles.  

YES, I truly believe having Embiid instead of Capela, Hunter, and OO would give the Hawks a better chance at a title, maybe multiple titles. 

YES, I truly believe having Giannis instead of  Capela, JC, and Reddish would give the Hawks a better chance at a title, maybe multiple titles. 

It's not that I have anything against our players.  I LOVE our guys.  I would love nothing more than for them to stay together and win a couple of titles.  But if we are talking about what gives the Hawks the greater chance to win one, let alone multiple, titles I'll go to my grave believing having the established Superstar is a better plan than having a guy (or multiple guys) that aren't even all-stars but might one day grow into one.  

IF the Hawks go out and win the next 3 NBA Championships on the backs of Trae, Hunter, and Reddish becoming SUPERSTARS on the level of KD, Giannis, and Embiid, then fine.  Have your dynasty conversation and it's likely not one person here would object.  But having this 5-7 titles conversation when all but Trae on the roster haven't even sniffed an All-Star game appearance is more absurdity than reality.  

Nothing against you.  I love the excitement and enthusiasm.  

I have no problems with your belief. Just an honest question. What puts that much doubt in your mind that we don't have all the tools necessary now?

What team is that much of a powerhouse that you see is that much better than us and why?

We didn't get swept by the champions and honestly if it weren't for a few things the narrative could be alot different. If we were that afraid of the Bucks or didn't think we could beat them would Trae really be cocky enough to shimmy and throw alleys off the back board...

Would we be able to beat the champs a 2nd time after such a move? Without Trae would we even win a game?

Would that series and the narrative be different if Dre was out there with Cam?

We beat the #1 76ers team with neither.

We took the Bucks to 6 with a hobbled Bogi who even at his best is not a better defender than Dre and Cam. We took the Bucks to 6 with Huerter, Bogi and Trae. That's not the best defensive recipe. Next yr around that time more than likely guys who were our starters will be coming off the bench. Defense still wins championships.

Is it that hard to believe if we had our 2 best wing defenders shutting down a Middleton and Jrue that we wouldn't atleast be in the finals?

If we're being honest with ourselves we played the whole yr without seeing the best of us. Not once was our entire group healthy but our depth still got us far.

Who has gotten that much better to put that much fear in our hearts to think we can't go even further? Especially when healthy?

If we were at full capacity or clearly inferior to our competition I'd completely agree with y'all. Reality has shown that wasn't the case. I can understand those who may not be as optimistic as I am because things happen. What I can't understand is the mentality that acts like we aren't capable of doing more than we've already done.

If we went as hard as the Knicks did all year and just weren't up to par I'd understand. What many fail to understand is despite the pundits we underachieved. We can blame it on health. We can blame it on youth or whatever but point is teams have yet to face us at max capacity that whole season.

Now we're entering a season hungrier, with more chemistry and realistic expectations of individuals getting better as well as the overall team. We are nowhere near peaks. Even Trae knows he can get and be alot better.

Besides the media what is the reason for so much doubt? We are not any of our old Atlanta teams. The 60 win team was great but I saw them peak after January. I've yet to see us come near our peak which gives me high optimism.

What gives you doubt?

19 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Thabo Sefalosha was the starting SG during Harden 3 years with OKC when they won 55, 55 and 47 games, they won 60 games the year after trading him.  OKC dealing Harden was strictly a money issue not a talent issue. 

1. The ownership was not willing to have a $100 million dollar payroll

2. Harden wanted more money than they were willing to pay

3. Harden felt he was already sacrificing coming off the bench and did not want to sacrifice money as well (and I can see this happening with a bench player, his agent can easily tell him a team is offering him a starting spot).

These players care about the money and getting paid what they think is their market value regardless if they know what to do with it or not.  We just went thru this with JC turning down $90 mil and getting $125 - they care.

Thabo lol.... That's an obvious case of Harden's lack of defense and OKC's lack of depth. Those are the only 2 reasons Harden should've been coming off their bench in the 1st place.

Honestly I don't see Cam coming off the bench for long for that very reason. We know Dre isn't. If Cam is still coming off the bench it's because he's under performing which more than likely would make his value less on the market. Either that or Bogi/Huerter are playing out of their minds. Either way if neither one of them make an allstar team or all nba team the price will only be so much.

More than likely Bogi and Huerter will end the season on the bench. Huerter should be able to make Bogi expendable if he's going to demand a good amount of money. It's understandable that Gallo, Bogi and possibly Clint will/should be traded before our young core.

JC is a different case. He's our longest tenured player and has been thru the worst with our team. He has all the right to demand a little more because of the hard times he's endured and the constant improvements he's made yr by yr.

If Huerter was improving on the same scale we might not have even looked Bogi's way. At this point we have enough young talent to not need our vets as much after this yr so we can move pieces around to obtain the money necessary. 

Our owner isn't that cheap either. He's just a businessman. He wants premium winning if he's going to pay a premium expense.

If players and the team lives up to expectations we can afford to pay more. Even if that means we are no longer flexible cap room wise. Why??? Because most of our players aren't even 23 yet and are know where near their primes. 

If we lock up a group of 23 and younger players for the next 5yrs it's not the end of the world. If our core was currently in the 26-28 range that would possibly be another story but even then you could get a valuable 5yr run if they were up to par.

This is chess not checkers and you don't make moves without understanding what's ahead. We are in a great situation. If our players reach their potential we can afford to pay them and still be good for yrs. If they don't we can either keep them at a reasonable price or move them. It's not as complicated as the rest of the nba world (media) is trying to make it.

One thing we do know is media is often wrong. Unapologetically wrong. If we listen to them what does that make us?

If they were giving our team the credit they deserve it will be less people on here having that discussion or disbelief. Since the media under values and discredits it seems like some of our fans are sniffing that sauce.

I'm just curious to know the narrative if a freak accident didn't happen and we won a chip or got to the finals ala the Suns. In my opinion the best thing happened to us that could've happened to us. We've made the small but necessary adjustments. Let's not get to far ahead of ourselves and over do it. The ball is in our court.

I really do like Zion but good question is he really that much of an upgrade over JC.

He may have more star power. He's definitely going to cost more. We could assume their would be chemistry with him and Trae but assumptions aren't results. We definitely can't keep too many of our other players if we have Zion.

More importantly will his body hold up in the long run? We know JC is durable. 

Again I like Zion but at this point I would only make moves out of necessity. I'd evaluate how things are going forward which at this point are very good. It's a big gamble and may not be wise to taint what we have for only hopes of what could be.

If people thought we surprised last year they are going to see just how dangerous we are (hopefully at full strength) this yr.

Can we atleast wait till January before we consider moving what we haven't even seen fully on court yet?

16 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Look man.  You are missing the point altogether. No one said they "want to break up the team."  That's you projecting on us.  Not true.  You were the one that said you wouldn't trade for any of the current elite players.  Some of us just think that's the wrong take.  I'm not LOOKING to break up the team.  But that's partly because none of the players that are clearly better than our core are available.  So there's no point.

But yeah, if in some hypothetical world, KD, Giannis, Embiid, or the like demand a trade, I would have no problem trading 2 or 3 of our core (not named Trae) plus picks for any one of those guys.  Despite what you think, an established Superstar in his prime is better odds to win a title than a maybe superstar in his infancy (and that's precisely what all of our guys are except Trae). 

As far as titles go, YOU were the one that said you could trade for KD and maybe win 3 titles or keep the core intact and win 5 or 7 titles.  I mean, do you even hear yourself?  You're handing out NBA Championships to the Atlanta Hawks like they are skittles.  And that's based on your personal belief in guys that haven't even made an all-star team, let alone made All NBA.  

Like I said, I'm all for enthusiasm and excitement about our core.  I LOVE these guys and have no interest in breaking up the band unless its for a bona fide superstar that isn't currently available.  But come on dude.  Saying the hawks could feasibly win 5-7 titles is over the top at this point in time. 

Atleast you actually added superstars. KD, Embiid and Giannis are superstars. When I originally responded it was because none of the players suggested were.

Back to those superstars though KD is in his prime but for how long? Also is he going to stay healthy and does he stagnate the growth of our overall team? More importantly y'all are saying you're making trades because we can't afford to keep players as if KD is coming cheap.

Embiid is another great player, definitely in his prime but also very injury prone. Is that really a risk worth taking when depth compensates for injuries?

Giannis is phenomenal but without a consistent shot(not saying he won't get there) he could stagnate our offense and floor spacing. If I were to trade for anybody it would be Giannis but that's also betting on his potential to work within our offense and have a better 3ball.

If we're betting on potential why not stick with what we have? Cam and Dre have the size and length to guard a KD and Durant and they are also offensive weapons that should only get better. More importantly they will cost alot less because they are still under the age to get the type of max Giannis and KD have. It's like we're running into the fire we fear. 

Also because our team is so deep it's highly unlikely that we get 4/5 Allstars at once meaning we should be able to get our guys at a discounted price. The less depth the more guys have to step up and the more they step up the more money they will demand.

It will cost us more in the long run playing the game that way and it's unnecessary.

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

The Next Step is the Next Step.   The economics and the talent level will dictate what happens next.  It's not a process... we're there.   We have gone farther than the team with the process.   Now, either we can win with this or we have to look to get better.  I'm mister stay pat... but at the same time, when we have asessets that can be lost, we have to start considering what tweaks can we make to make us a whole lot better.   I see you talking strongly about our strength and depth in other threads.  Did you ever stop to think why teams don't remain this strong for long?  I mean...  OKC had Westbrook, KD, Harden, and Ibaka.  They also had Fisher and Perk.  Why couldn't they maintain??  Because once guys get to star status... playing the background and taking less money is not what they want to do.   Harden didn't want to come off the bench for the rest of his career.   Neither do Cam and Heurter.   That's why there were those Cam trade rumors this summer.  I don't think that was just conjecture.   I think Travis was looking at Deals and just didn't see anything that moved him.  But he knows... he has valuable talent on the bench.   It won't stay that way for long.   This year, he will let Dre and Cam continue to improve and show their stuff but by next season or maybe even by the deadline this year... moves will be made. 

 

True you can't pay everyone which is why you groom young players on reasonable contracts. 

OKC had Harden on the bench for who??? I can't even remember but I know that player was less talented than Harden. They refused to see the value in their own player. They traded him for Kevin Martin just to put that in prospective.

If you don't learn from history you repeat it.

Any player worth bringing over our guys are going to cost more financially and in depth or lack there of.

For those that can't/won't take reasonable contracts we draft their replacement but we shouldn't just trade for the fear of... 

These are not players that are at their peak ages trying to cash out on their best deal. At 23 and younger alot of our guys aren't even going to know how to spend those large contracts at such a young age. Not only that but they can only get a certain amount at their ages because they are not eligible for the type of max's some of these other guys are getting. They will get better but who says they will reach their peak in a yr or two that will even demand that type of money? Best part about our team is they don't need to because collectively if we play our roles correctly that's enough to push us over the top which we almost saw last year. We beat the #1 seeded 76ers with No Dre or Cam.

No one in their right mind (players included) would willingly leave an opportunity to do something special when they are so close. When/if we run across situations like that then we can open the trade discussions. 

Either way we have bird rights to all of our core for the most part so the ball is in our hands. We don't drop the ball out of fear. We make the right pass out of necessity. Right now it's just unnecessary.

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Exactly... Where are the Anthony Mason's of the league now? It's a copycat league and players get chosen typically because they are similar or compared to other great players.

Ain't nobody looking for the next Anthony Mason, Vernon Maxwell or Charles Oakley. Why because players are way more skilled then them.

It is a laughable subject when y'all bring that up as if it has any substance. You can bring that to the best or even worse GM's and they will laugh you out the building. 

You don't hear Charles, Shaq, Kenny or nobody mentioning any of those names as if those players had skills. Back in those days they needed goon squads to protect the skilled players. Now it's too many skills to go around to afford those type of players on a team. I don't know what's so difficult to understand about that.

I hate to take money from fellow fans but we can make a pool $$$... 

I'll call out every title yr I see. My only stipulations is if we lose Travis, he loses his mind or ownership crumbles.

The more I understand the game the more I see just how lacking and behind so many GM's are in the league for whatever reason. For some it's not all their faults it starts with ownership.

When you're lacking it's not an easy catch up overnight situation. People thought I was overly optimistic when I made this post. Things happen obviously like LP not working out with the team. That's life and in life I look at the bigger overall picture. Either way I wasn't surprised at all when we did what we did and want be surprised when we do what we do next season top 3 seed.

At this point I may have to treat some fans like I do outsiders and take their money. If you're willing to bet against me let's start a pool. It may even just be a bet to donate a certain amount to Hawksquawk if you lose.

8 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

This is a good post. 

Trading potential stardom for actual stardom is a good strategy.  It's pretty naive to just assume all of our players will reach their currently perceived ceilings. The likelihood of that happening is nominal. 

It's nice that you think you are a visionary or whatever but you are being extremely naive by assume all our players reach their peak. That doesn't happen. Trading potential for actual elite players is a wise move. 

Also, I'd trade every player on our team for 3 guaranteed titles.  Dynasties are so so rare. I'm not tryin to be greedy. Hold out for the dynasty and you are more likely to win none than multiple. 

Who said all of our players would reach their peak? Who says all our players even need to reach their peak to bring better value to us than what y'all assume some of those other players will?

I just know how to scout talent and most importantly I understand life. Iron sharpens Iron. When you have so much talent in house it does nothing but continue to push each other.

It's more naive to believe that players past their prime or that work well in other systems would be our saving grace. There's no such thing as guaranteed titles but the best way to get close is to set your team up in the way we've constructed for maximum success.

We can put some wagers on the table if you're so confident that what we have want or isn't working. I'm used to being against the odds. I'm also used to winning. To me that's where the difference lies. To take a line from Dusk till Dawn "Are you such a loser to where you don't recognize when you've already won". Not calling out anybody but you don't break up a team before it peaks.

You break up a team once you realize it's  about to peak. In house has the advantage because they know the work ethic of players. They see the performance on a daily and etc... 

The way some of y'all want to trade I'm starting to suspect y'all are fans of other teams. It may just be the lack of understanding what a dynasty looks like which is why I've attempted to enlighten. Take it or leave it but if you stand by it bet it up.

26 minutes ago, kg01 said:

First, as a disclaimer, I don't think this is happening because I don't think anyone will come available who's worth that.

But, just for fun, let's list out who could conceivably pop loose this season ..

Simmons (PHI) - well, duh.  I think he's actually good enough to take a team to a next level.  However, the 'when' depends on when he accepts the mental help.  And 'when' he accepts he's not a pg.

Lilllllllard (POR) - I know a lotta folks still fall for his Kemba act but I see him for what he is .. Kemba 2.0, aw dang I spoiled it.

Beal (WAS) - EZPass Lane.  If he accepts the role as the 'Zards centerpiece, that tells me (again) he's all about the stat$ not the winz.

Mitchell (UTA) - Interesting although he seems to still be into all that Jazz - which, if we're being honest, won't see the heights they reached last reg season.  Their playoff choke job should be more of a 'story'.  They lost to a Kawhi-less Clippers team that's known for chokin' their dang selves.

Porter, Jr. (DEN) - An interesting one.  I think the Nuggs will see a fall this year with their coach continuing to player-blame the whole way.  He goes to that well way too much and I expect Porter to draw his ire.

Towns (MIN) - will he get tired of the losing?  If he's a competitor, he should've already grown tired of 'Sota's act.

Siakim (TOR) - Eh, not a "star" and all he does post-Kawhi is keep proving that out.

Lavine (CHI) - I'm done bashing the guy.  He seemed to take a step last season.  This could be one to watch out for.  Shocking to hear that from me, I know.

Grant (DET) - Eh, he's aiight but I think in a winning role his numbers are much less poppy than this past season.

That's pretty much it, as far as I can see it.

Clear case of believing the grass is greener on the other side.

Which one of those players truly are a clear advantage over what we have?

Which one of those players have pushed their team over the edge and won a chip?

I wouldn't take Pascal Siacam over JC,OO,JJ and I doubt he'd play a role like Gallo off the bench.

Wouldn't trade Simmons for Cam, Dre, Huerter or Bogi for that matter. More importantly JJ can be a Ben Simmons with a J so he could be redundant.

I wouldn't take an aging Dame over Trae.

There's a reason Minny is at the bottom of the list season after season. As talented as KAT is he's puddy in the paint more often than not on the defensive end. That's the last quality you want out of a big man.

I'm not going to go down the list but it's a list full of one sided players and many are undersized and haven't accomplished anything big.

We have lengthy 2way players that are capable on both ends so it would be a subtraction move in my opinion.

Donovan Mitchell is the only player that has the youth and extra It factor to me and again he is undersized. We all know Trae's deficiencies which is why wings with the length of Cam and Dre are so important.

It's baffling to me but I can almost guarantee that people will be wishing they had our players over the players above in a few yrs.