RedDawg#8

this doesnt include some players like Brandon Bass and Joe Smith who were only listed as Forwrds. I was too lazy to sift all the PF's out from the SF's

Player Pos Age Exp Type OldTeam Anthony, Joel C 26 2yrs RFA MIA --- --- Blount, Mark C 33 10yrs UFA*** MIA --- --- Booth, Calvin C 33 10yrs UFA SAC --- --- Collins, Jason C 30 8yrs UFA MIN --- --- Curry, Eddy C 26 8yrs UFA*** NYK --- --- Elson, Francisco C 33 6yrs UFA* MIL --- --- Ely, Melvin C 31 7yrs UFA NOH --- --- Foyle, Adonal C 34 12yrs UFA ORL --- --- Gray, Aaron C 24 2yrs RFA CHI --- --- Hollins, Ryan C 24 3yrs RFA DAL --- --- Hunter, Steven C 27 8yrs UFA*** DEN --- --- Ilgauskas, Zydrunas C 34 13yrs UFA*** CLE --- --- James, Jerome C 33 10yrs UFA* CHI --- --- Magloire, Jamaal C 31 9yrs UFA MIA --- --- Mihm, Chris C 29 9yrs UFA MEM --- --- Moore, Mikki C 34 12yrs UFA BOS --- --- Mutombo, Dikembe C 42 18yrs UFA HOU --- --- Nesterovic, Rasho C 33 11yrs UFA IND --- --- Petro, Johan C 23 4yrs RFA DEN --- --- Swift, Robert C 23 5yrs UFA OKC --- --- Voskuhl, Jake C 31 9yrs UFA TOR --- --- Collins, Jarron F-C 30 8yrs UFA UTA --- --- Frye, Channing F-C 26 4yrs RFA POR --- --- LaFrentz, Raef F-C 33 11yrs UFA POR --- --- Marks, Sean F-C 33 10yrs UFA NOH --- --- McDyess, Antonio F-C 34 13yrs UFA DET --- --- O'Neal, Jermaine F-C 30 13yrs UFA* MIA --- --- Ratliff, Theo F-C 36 14yrs UFA PHI --- --- Wright, Lorenzen F-C 33 13yrs UFA CLE

i really do miss childress' game. he would save alot of posessions for us by swooping in at the last minute and getting an easy putback. with all the shooters on our team, he would be very valuable grabbing their misses. evans tries, but he just doesnt have the length. i wish smoove and marv would stay around the rim more cuz they could get some very easy buckets if they did.

You cant under estimate the value of a good bench (as we have done in the past) when you dont have a strong bench, it limits your team esp. on defense. you cant play agressive man to man defense when theres no one who can come in behind you if you get in foul trouble. Players like Howard and Pietrus become significantly reduced on the defensive end now. Offensively, they seem ok, but you are now hoping that their 5 starters have it going night in and night out, which is very unlikely. you are now expecting a 20 pt night from each of their starters. NOT gonna happen. Having depth allows an off night from 2 or 3 starters. And then theres the risk of injury. Pietrus missed significant time last year, VC and Lewis are both over 30. You are gambling that they hold up for the entire 82 game reg. season AND playoffs. If everything goes their way, they will have a dominating offensive team. If anything goes wrong, they are royaly screwed

As of right now the Magic still have a hole on their starting roster. Depending on where they play Carter, with the loss of Lee AND Hedo, they wont have a 2/3. This means they will prolly upgrade Pietrus to a starting spot, but that now removes yet another player off their evaporating bench. PG-Nelson SG/SF- Pietrus SG/SF-Carter PF- Lewis C-Howard Bench: Reddick Anderson A. Johnson Foyle (FA) Lue (FA) Je. Richardson (FA) They still have 3 FA's to sign and one roster spot to fill and they dont have as much cap room. While their starting line-up looks very formidable, they will have absolutely no bench. Assuming Marv comes back and we add another solid big, I would strongly argue that we have a much deeper and better all-around team. If any of their starters get in foul trouble, they are screwed.

Both of them are very talented players, its a shame neither has come to us yet, we could use both of them on our team right now. Akyol, 6-6 SG-SF, he can dribble, penetrates very often, draws fouls, shoots very well and is a pesky defender. would be a great back up SF for us. Andersen, 6-11.5, PF-C, has a lean frame so wouldnt be much of a banger, but shoots well as we all know, can PASS, and contributes on the glass. would be a welcomed scorer to our offensively limited froncourt. Too bad Akyol probably never will come, and we are still holding our breath on Andersen. makes me wonder why I even bothered posting this. If we ever get either though, they would add some great dimensions to our roster.

I have to say I told you so to alot of the replies. The day we got him I spoke about all of this and was getting flamed. The guy is willing to fit into a role, he was asked to play the way he did. And I also remember saying not to judge him by the way he plays on the court. He looks like an AI/Carmelo type of guy on the court, but he really has a Kobe, Duncan kind of personality off of it.

Him being a URFA makes a huge difference. why would Detroit waste their time with Marvin when history shows that we would match their offer, esp in this economy when the only way to get Marv is out-bid us. Unless somebody has a ton of money to throw his way, and a huge hole at SF, i dont think teams are gonna be as agressive with Marv as they will any Unrestricted FA SF out there. To answer the point of the thread, i think Marv will get something in that area

True, what im saying tho is that if you have a good plan, it doesnt matter when you sign player A or player B, so long as they get signed. If you can get McDyess while waiting on Gortat or Zaza to shop themsleves around the league because they are in higher demand and are thus looking for the best deal, then do it. I never said bring in McDyess and thats gonna solve our frontcourt for this offseason. I want Zaza back, but if he is taking a long time then Sund would still have to be proactive in other areas. You cant put everything on hold for 1 guy. Dice is CHEAP so the money will still be there if we get him.

i had to research on him, but yeah i would have to agree on the value. i also came across Nesteravic and if Zaza and Gortat are asking for too much, I wouldnt be unhappy with him at all. A legit 7 footer, shoots a good % and gets boards. over his career he has been a decent rebounder, but that wasnt the case this year. ----------Mpg--FG-----3PT-----FT---OR--DR-TOT--A--S---B---TO---FL--PTS Rasho Career 22.8 0.501 0.077 0.588 1.9 3.4 5.3 1.1 0.4 1.1 0.95 2.80 7.0 Zaza Career 21.2 0.457 0.000 0.737 2.2 3.4 5.6 1.0 0.7 0.3 1.44 2.70 7.7 Gortat Career/ Season 12.1 0.559 1.000 0.583 1.5 2.9 4.4 0.2 0.3 0.7 0.39 1.70 3.7

he probably has enough left to help us. His age is actually a good thing for us though because we can get him for cheap and still have money for other areas. What does the order matter as long as we fill our needs. we needed a center in the draft but they chose to add to our pg situation instead. In all realism tho, our biggest need is to sign a starting SF (whether its Marv or somebody else). i dont believe Joe is moving to the 3 at all, because that really changes our "chemistry" as a team. a term that has been floating out of everybody in our organizations mouth this off-season. We have a long time before camp to fill our needs, I doubt it happens right away. but if u have the oppurtunity to fill a need you take it, whether its a PF, C, SF. we cant afford to lose out on talent because we are waiting for 1 or 2 players.

not true... we still need a back up PF as well as back up C. We only have Smith, Horford, and Morris. Some writer stated that you need 5 quality bigs to seriously compete for a title and right now we barely have 2 since Smith likes to play outside the paint so much. Morris really doesnt even count cuz he barely does anything at all. Do you want to rely on Solo and Hunter to our bu PF? We could use a vet like Mcdyess as well as Zaza or Gortat, even somebody like Joe Smith would help. Regardless of who we acquire, we need to add 2 more Bigs to our roster b4 the season starts, point blank.

i feel you but, by taking the loss of Flip, Acie and Speedy's contract and replacing them with Teague and Crawford, we actually save a little. (like 2mil) Then with Bibby, he would be taking a pay CUT, so we save some more there.(3mil+) That savings could be used to sign McDyess for maybe around 3-4 mil The key is Marvin and Zaza, if they ask for too much, we have to look elsewhere and possibly go with Solo or west instead. Zaza actually shouldnt demand much more than he was getting because when he signed his contract, he was gettin paid as a likely starter, he could get a 2mil raise max. Marv still could get his nice contract the tip of the iceberg would be Childress. i doubt he comes anyway tho, so we exchange: Bibbys old contract Flip Speedy Acie one of the Ir players contracts Marvins old deal Zaza's old deal for Bibby paycut Crawford Teague rookie deal Williams pay raise Zaza slight pay raise (or MLE) McDyess Chills or FA Swingman im not sure if this works but we were under the cap b4 and we are only spending truly on a marvin raise and chills contract... does it look good to anybody?

id prefer a mixture of both, id take: Marvin Bibby Zaza plus Mcdyess a back up swingman (6-6 to 6-8) ideally Childress but i doubt he returns. giving us: Bibby/Teague Joe/Crawford/Evans Williams/Childress Smith/McDyess Horford/ZaZa/Morris this team would compete for a title, a great mix of scorers and tough role players. i wonder could we afford this lineup tho

Mcdyess could serve as a mentor to Smoove, and teach him how to develop an all around game. As a former 240 PF who relied heavily on explosiveness and dunks, he survived in this league by learning other skills. It would be a positve addition no matter how u look at it.

HAWK88, for a guy who is consistently asked to defend some of the greatest players in todays NBA, Marvin does a hell of a job. Nobody can stop Lebron, but on numerous occassions i have seen Marvin do a tremendous job of keeping him from doing everything he wants to on the court. Prime ex, the reg. season game on ESPN. Perhaps the most impressive time to me tho was game 3 in the playoffs when he was still injured, Woody kept him off Lebron alot, but the when he finally did gaurd him i remember telling everybody in the room watch closely, and sure as i said that he stole the ball from him and it led to a break the other way. Dude plays great D, and he loves it. Smith cannot stop his man from gettin to the hole, he can only hope to block his shot from behind or somebody elses man's shot. Smoove isnt a defender. he is a shotblocker. there is a big difference. you can easily beat a shot blocker by going rite at him, its like kryptonite to them.

Wurider05, i completely agree. I keep thinking the same thing. Marvin has way more positives in his game than negatives. Way more. his only issue is not being agressive, YET whenever he does get the ball he makes something positve happen for the team. Either he gets to the line or he takes a good shot that he converts at a good rate. He is our Trevor Ariza, he does the little things that count like running the floor playing real face-up man to man defense (not weakside help D). He gives us size advantages on a nightly basis, and when he is healthy is still very quick. He is no weak spot, on the contrary. He is, along with JJ our MOST ALL-Around Player, but he doesnt need the ball for 20 secs a possesion to prove it. Yal who keep hating on Marv's game are whack. dude is an assest to any organization that wants to win a championship. stop letting Woody's fear to gameplan for any player other than Joe blind you from seeing that. I cant understand why some of yal would rather watch Smith play like an idiot everynight than watch Marvin play like a champ (TEAM PLAYER) and be smart. Look at the players yal say you would rather have and look at what they have really done in this league. NOT MUCH. and they prolly wont ever. At least Marv still has Potential, and at 23, it is way too soon to give up on it.

we currently have 7 players signed. the way it looks, not garunteeing we bring back any of our fa's, we need 2 bigs off the bench, a starting 3, a backup wing and 1 more guard to add to the mix. so even if we sign williams and zaza and either flip or bibby, we still need another big to backup smith and another wing player ala childress (a 6-6 to 6-8 swingman type) . evans needs to be a 2 first and 3 only in times of desperation. where do we look to fill these holes, knowing the recent moves made in our conference and what/who we will be facing next season as we try to improve our team to a 3rd round level?

whats the word on Joe, is he a no go for team USA again?

dude has been on teams that were either devoid of talent, or trying to find an identity. here, neither is the case. we are a playoff team that is merely looking for role players. he doesnt have to feel the need to put up 20 points a game. all he has to do is get in where he fits in. his job will be alot easier here than it has been in the past. jus drive the ball and shoot the open shot. flip worked out well for us despite his past labels, i dont see why crawford cant seeing that he is a better ovr player

b4 this trade i could have cared less about crawford, but since he is here im hoping we can get the most from this guy. if u watch an interview right after his trade to gs, he mentions that it was hes teamates who told him to play more aggresive and not hold back. he was ready to pull his game back for his new team but they requested the opposite. and how can a guy who is not from the ghetto play "ghetto ball". i think if u hear the guy speak u will have a totally different opinion about him and where he comes from. thats why i said dont judge him by his game, dude is very mature and acknowledges that he has been in some bad situations with rebuilding teams but has always tried to make the best of it. u have never heard any negativity about his character, which is why i said he could be leader. the fact that he puts up 20 ppg on losing teams shouldnt detriment a mans character. he isnt ghetto, he isnt a thug. he plays hard core aggressive bball and should be able to flourish in a situation where he isnt the 1st 2nd or possibly 3rd option on offense. he can sit back and attack whenever defenses forget he is out there. i feel like the fact that he has never won anything will only make him that much hungrier and will pay off immensely for us. nobody wants to be known for losing and im sure he is excited about the oppurtunity he has with us and will be willing to accept whatever role he has to to do that. he has that kind of character. "ghetto ball" ....smh

i know, it just erks the hell out of me seeing him at the 3. and trufully, he shouldnt have to handle the ball (like joe does) as a real 2, if he had a pg to set him up with his shots

so because he was on 3 suckey teams, his experience in the league means nothing. he was never the cause for losing but was always shipped around. yet he still tried to hold the teams together when he was there. key example, the stephon ordeal in NY. He tried to play mediator during that time. Look up some of the guy's interviews and see for urself. he plays to the style he is asked to play. In GS, they wanted him to be agressive so he did. He doesnt have to be the "guy" here in ATL. he can play off Joe and chip in when needed. Ask Cleveland if the fact Mo Williams was loser stopped him from providing leadership for the Cavs. It was Lebrons team, but he still was a veteran that younger guys could look to. This is Joes team but Crawford can still share things with his younger teamates about being professional, not jus winning on the court, but off the court as well.

can we stop considering Evans as a sf. dude is smaller than alot of sg's, im tired of watching him get punked whenever he guards the 3 position. him on lebron was too painful to watch, esp when we all know joe could have d-up on him alot better. Evans needs to be the backup 2, crawford at the 1 (atl's version of a pg anyway). and we need to find a REAL backup SF who stands between 6-7 and 6-9. for two purposes. one, to provide defense against the large 3's in our league, and 2, to actually matchup with williams in practice so that he can can get a legit size comparison of what he will face on gameday. him against Evans in practice is a true disservice to him.

yeah...before the playoffs, there is this little thing called the regular season. to my knowledge, most teams actually have to play 82 games before thinking about the postseason. and during these 82 insignificant games, there is a need for locker room presence of ppl who can help a young roster be professionals and deal with the media, losing streaks, lack of playing time, disagreements with the coach, etc. anytime you can inject somebody into the locker room who has experience and maturity it helps. especially when the 2nd best player on the team is a whiney punk who has to have his way or else. if bibby doesnt come back, who is gonna be in his ear to calm him down. we already know mr. joe wont do it because he doesnt speak....ever. so, lets think about that for a min b4 a judge a players post season experience over his experience in the league as a whole.