RedDawg#8

In case yal forgot, Joe wasnt on the Olympic team because after he participated on the national team in 2006 he came back and had that season ending injury the next nba season. He decided to pull himself from team USA stating he wanted to make sure he was healthy enough to make it through the next full season. Alot of players choose not to participate on team USA for this very reason. Kobe was the same way before he changed his mind at the last minute and joined this year. So drop that Joe wasnt selected to the olympic team nonsense, he was on it and opted out. In fact, all the national team members from his 06 summer raved about him and his play stating he was a great asset who was the most versatile player they had. Joe DOES have All-World talent

Roy couldnt even get his team past the first round, Joe won game 7 by himself for the most part. Roy has a killer instinct in lesser moments i.e reg. season Joe has a killer instinct only in the last possible moments where he can still make a difference. the 4th quarter of that game in the Bos series. Game 7 this year. I think Joe tries to play a modest game and not take it over until its absolutely neccesary and almost too late

With Crawford, I say unless he has an amazing camp, he will be our 6th man, but will get starters minutes. We are one of the only teams in the NBA who will be starting the same 5 players for a 3rd season, let alone a second season. Why mess that chemistry up, it is trully one of our best advantages. What I hope we do see is alot of different sub line-ups that are based on matchups that we use intentionally, and not because of injury or foul situation. Bibby-Joe-Marv-Smith-Horf: Start every game with this group, and based off what happens go to either: Craw-Joe-Marv-Smith-Horf: Against taller or faster PG's (Kidd, Chauncey or Rondo) Bibby-Craw-Joe-Smith-Horf: Against smaller quicker SG's (Allen, West, Wade) Bibby-Craw-Joe-Marv-Horf: Spread the court and bombs away shooting line-up (to play catch up) Teague-Craw-Marv-Smith-Horf: Young, Athletic, run and gun group for the fans A little off topic, but in camp i would like to see these be the 2 main units going against each other, but not the actual line-ups Bibby vsTeague (master vs. the apprentice) Crawford vs. Evans (6'5 offense against 6'5 defense) Joe vs. Marvin (Best scorer against the man who will always guard the best scorer during the reg season) Smith vs. a veteran (Hot-headed youngster vs. a wiley vet) Horf vs Zaza (Scrappy vs Scrappier)

Deisel, Its not a bias, When that many people on this board, and on the GS board agree on it, maybe its just the plain truth. Obviously you dont think Marv is better but you made the poll, people responed, so take it for what its worth and not for what you want it to mean. We understand the results didnt come out the way you wanted, but that doesnt mean we did something wrong. You asked, you got an answer. Maybe you should try to just accept Marv, and root for the guy. Im sure if the results came out different you would be telling us to root against him, so im personally requesting you just step back for a moment, put all the negative data on Marvin that you have collected over the years to the side, and just appreciate the positive things he brings to your favorite team, cuz guess what....he is here for 5 more seasons buddy. Nobody here thinks the guy is a star player, we all know he was drafted way too high. And if YOU didnt criticize his game to the point where damn near everybody on here has to defend him, there might be more people who agreed with you, and said the more of the same things you feel, but your perpetual scrutinizing of the man has made people begin to appreciate him more as we research and find out that he is actually better than we give him credit for. Your like a teenager who gets into it with a friend and stops talking to them, then you tell all your other friends not to like that person too, but over time people forget about what happened and like that person again, while your pride is too big to just forgive them and move on. So now you find yourself more isolated from everybody all because of a grudge that you probably cant remember how it began. To Mr. Deisel, I say....let it go. take a deep breath, and free your mind of this hatred. Release yourself of the stress of trying to make us not like Marvin too. Forgive him for his lofty draft status and average career to date. Use your energy to instead think positively about his potential and cheer your favorite team on

What all 3 did is esentially trade away depth and chemistry for a big name. If Shaq doesnt make it through this season injury free, the Cavs could be in major trouble Same goes for Bos and KG, Orlando does not have history on their side, aside from the Lakers this year, most teams that lose is the finals dont return the next year. Add to that that they will have the most chemistry issues to fill and next year could see them take a major fall. The Cavs added shaq, but inevitably lost more depth in their front court. the only good big on the bench is Illgauskus and he can only play one position as opposed to last season when they had Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Lo Wright who could chip in at both PF/C. I think they are planning on using James more at PF this year, hence the additions of Parker and Moon who can play more SF for them. Overall, while they have the 2 biggest centers in the East on one roster, their front court has actually gotten smaller. They recieve my vote for most vunerable

Since Woody has been here, the PG are not required to facilitate, with that in mind, Teague will be brought along the same way. Look at our history under woody Lue Bibby (in our system, not so much b4 he got here) Acie (a big time shooter coming out of school) Teague Salim All scoring gaurds versus Anthony Johnson Speedy Claxton more traditional pg's As long as JJ is here, the offense will be ran through him, much like Lebron in Cle, and Wade in Mia

I think that the simple fact that our road record was horrible and that usually improves with experience bodes well for us. If we can win closer to half of our road games we are at 50 wins easily Some things to keep in mind though, aside from Bibby and Horford who maintained, all other Hawks starters had a statistically worse year. We also had the injury issue. I doubt that both those things re-occur this year. I expect that Smith, Horford and Marv improve stat wise, and Bibby regress a little with Crawford cutting into his production. JJ will prolly maintain. If Smith alone can go back to his 07-08 level, we become very strong. One thing we have still yet to do is play to our strengths. we to often play to other teams abilties. When we can start taking advantage of the mismatches we have against EVERY team, we will be tough beat period. Overall, things are looking UP, there are more positive things about this team than negative.

Just getting a little overwhelmed with all the Big discussions, and want to see where everybody stands.

Once again, here we are as Atlanta sports fans, cheering for a team on the verge of taking that next step, but because ownerships are pinching their wallets we start making excuses for them, throwing away any ambitions of a championship and sulk back into "reality" as we try to make sense and understand why we dont deserve to have a championship-caliber team. We cant even agree that we we need to spend money on a backup PF. now we are saying that its a better decision to go into the season with the same depth at PF/C and hope for different results. Guess what though, thats not reality people, thats called insanity. Boston had declining attendance and a horrible record, but in one summer they changed that beacuse they dedicated themselves to building(or buying) a championship team. I dont know about yal but I eventually would like to see our team win a championship, not just make a good showing in the playoffs. Ive watched thru all the struggles and im happy that we are past that now, but its only a matter of time before this roster will regress and we will be back at square one. And we will start these discussions all over again. Thats why when you build a team up, you jump at the oppurtunity to make that ONE or two moves that pushes them over the edge, not sit back and feed fans the same ish and say "they should be satisfied for a while with that". Im not saying Joe Smith is that move, but its the same mindest of balking at spending money on a big that will prevent ownership from spending on the piece we need to win a title.

I can see how it may seem that way but the truth is, 2 years ago when we had 6 "big men" on our roster (Horford, Smith, Zaza, Shelden, LoWright, and Solo) we found a way to get the combo of Wright (11) Shell (11) and Solo (4) 26 minutes collectively. Almost all those minutes can go to just one vet player with a guy like Morris recieving maybe 3 a game. If we have the bodies and talent to back players up, they will see time

to my knowledge, Gladyr could not participate in anything but an individual work out due to some conflict with the Euro league. Akyol was decent, I think it was Sekou who said he contibuted on both sides of the court. I dont think he stuck out much compared to the other guys he was against tho. Akyol apparently wants to come to the NBA this year as he is a free agent in the Euro leagues, but I doubt he's picked up (by us anyways) Gladyr will go back overseas for at least another season. Both want to play here eventually tho, which is why they decided to come and participate in mini camp as a show of that desire.

oh man, how ironic to see Marv throwin it down on Smoove. I almost forgot they both were in the same senior class, with Marv goin to UNC and Smoove coming straight out. that was hilarious lol

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5700040557 this is from John Schumann on Smoove based on thursday, sounds like the same Smith we know and love. Other than his athleticism, he doesnt have much else. "Josh Smith's jumper still needs a lot of work, and it's hard to see him being a part of the roster in the next few years. He's athletic and can guard multiple positions, but this team needs its twos, threes and fours to be able to shoot the ball from the perimeter. Smith did have the dunk of the day: A windmill throwdown on Love during the full-court transition drills. But even though Smith is an adidas guy and Love rocks the swoosh, no tapes were confiscated."

Based on what we have seen and heard I wouldnt mind Siler and Koralev, as well as bringing Hunter back. At least both Koralev and Hunter have NBA experience so it wouldnt be a big risk filling out the roster with them. I also wouldnt mind having Randolph be an IR player and Siler step into the 12 -man unit. Bibby-Teague Joe-Crawford-West Williams-Evans-Korolev Smith-FA Big-Hunter Horford-Pachulia-Siler-Morris This would give us a solid 1st and 2nd unit of NBA proven players (Teague exception), and solid (but not ideal) big man depth.

Does anybody remember against Boston in the playoffs, game 1 in atlanta the announcers said something about Mike Woodson placing an 18 sec shot clock on the team to force us to to play up-tempo? we struggled a bit at the jump but by the end of the 1st quarter we had Boston on their heels. I would love for this to be our mindset to start every game, esp since we tend to start slow and have to play catch up. I do agee that it starts on the defensive end though. We are young an athletic, thats our biggest strength, we have to take advantage of it.

"When you go out to compete against guys of that caliber, what do you hope to gain personally" Josh " uhm....you know uhm........nothing really, im just going out for one thing only... to make the team" For those of us that hoped that his game would benefit from this experience, its not looking good so far.

How much more of a difference tho, Smith does alot of great things, but alot of boneheaded things as well. And just because the 76ers were willing to overspend on him (just like they did Brand) doesnt mean much. 8 mil isnt as much as you re making it seem. Parker aint all that, and hes a backup swingman, not a starting SF/PF. Villanueva int as good as Marv, but he was asked to play a bigger roleon a sucky team. Dude is a soft 6-11 SF/PF, he gets little respect to me. and Yes Artest and Ariza who some wanted instead of Marv, even Battier are all older and put up lower stats than Marv did. But because they are vets with name recognition, they are more liked to our fans. We have a good thing going with Marv here. He shoots better tha Ariza, is more athletic than Artest and Battier combined and bigger as well. As Atlanta sports fans, we have to learn to appreciate the assests we have and not get over come with the love of other teams players who do not even perform at the same level as ours just because the world likes them more. I would love to see Marv go one on with those guys you listed, he'd run around Charlie V, Jump over Artest and Battier. the only person that would give him a good fight is Ariza, they are very similar styled players.

I get it now, this isnt about his talent, or game or chemistry. This is about where he was drafted. It makes sense now. Diesel, you are right. Marvin will NEVER live up to the 2nd pick of the 2005 Draft. We cant take that back though Chris Paul will never be a hawk Deron Williams will NEVER be a hawk. BK messed up. YES, we all know this, but Marvin isnt to blame. He didnt draft himself with that pick. Its 5 years later. Marvin has not become an All-Star, but he HAS become a solid NBA SF. and he HAS shown the ability to become a go to guy WHEN HE IS NEEDED. Marvin has a game that is so smooth that you dont realize the 14 and 6 he puts up nightly. He is so smart on the court that you dont appreciate him letting the Crowd favorites (Joe and Josh) get theirs while he sits back a chips in here and there. I know it annoys you that he doesnt light it up every night, but you have to let it go. Gortat just got the MLE for playing 11 mpg and avging 3 and 3 in the playoffs. so you bet your azz Marvin is worth every bit of 8 mil per.

OKay, this is getting annoying. Some dont like it, some dont mind what Woody said. But I think we can ALL agree that instead of saying: "I hope we can get 4th" the better response would have been "If we play to our full potential, we can beat any of those teams" which is very true as well. Realistically speaking, we CAN beat them, and Realistically speaking, we handed several games away this year. So being a REALIST as some of you prefer, if we do handle our business we can easily win 55 games. (thats 10 more). and realistically speaking, theres a chance that one of those teams can fall, it happens. so realistically, we can finish better than 4th. Lets hope for a championship, not 4th place. If we end up with 4th, fine as long as we fought hard every night to get it. No more looking UP to the Celtics, no more worshipping the King, no more laying down to the Magic. When we play our best, we can run all over anybody in the league. So, how bout we try to do that instead of trying to be politically correct and stay in our place.... which Woodson is happy to say is a comfortable 4th.

14 pts and 6 rebs, for a non All-Star small forward playing on a playoff team is above the the league average. How is Smith so much more loved when he averaged 15.6 and 7.2. So Smith is worth his contract, ( at 1.5 more points, and 1 more rebound per game while playing 1 more minute a game) but marvin isnt worth 2 million less. I really dont understand the evaluation of our players worths around here Diesel. You rather pay Smith his money to dribble up the court, turn it over, get easy fast break dunks, shoot 58% from the free throw line, and avg 15.6 and 7.2 THAN Pay Marv 8 mil to take 220 FEWER attempts (in 8 fewer games), and only avg 1.5 less points, 1 less rebound, 190 FEWER turnovers (Marv avg the FEWEST turnovers of any of our starters btw) I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. For a guy who was the 5th scoring option behind Bibby, Joe, Smith, AND Flip. to put up those numbers, that may not blow you away, but it is very VERY good compared to other non All-Star SF's. we need to get off his back and appreciate that. So he is not aggresive, he still averages well for his position. Everybody on the team cant average 20 pts a game. So please Diesel, why arent you bashing Smoove, because according to your judgement, he is GROSSLY Overpayed

Everything sounds good to me. Glad he wants to learn, hope he signs that contract soon as he said. Excellent answer about the fast break too lol I cant wait to see him and Rondo battle it out in the east in the future for years to come

No more excuses guys. LOSER'S make excuses. 2004 Finals, Detroit didnt make excuses. a team of 4 cast offs and a rookie SF Dominated against 4 Hall of FAME Players. So what if our frontcourt is undersized, Ben Wallce- 6'9 240 and Rasheed 6'11 230 vs Shaq 7'1 325 and Carl Malone 6'9 259 so why cant AL Horford- 6-10 245 and Josh Smith 6-9 240 win against Shaq, Varajeo, Dwight, Lewis, Perkins, Garnett, Rasheed...etc Why cant Joe and Bibby beat: Nelson and Vince Rondo and Allen MO and West Anything is possible, thats why you play the seson and not just settle for pre-season paper champs. F#$@ BOS, CLE, and ORL. F### DET, CHI, WAS. We have to go out and take what we want and stop playing down to people. Imagine if DET in 2004 decided to do what the world wanted and let Malone and Payton get their ring so they could retire. You cant base your succes off of other people expectations of you, but on your expectations of yourself. until we get this, we will never reach our potential. as that columnists said, we will be PETER PAN and never grow up. We will stay in NEVERLAND and watch the adults win the championship year after year while we are happy just playing for fun and the 4th seed.

I understand everybody who is defending Woody right now, and as loyal fans thats very cool. Still, I do think that its a slap in the face to us fans who support this team and want this team to win it all one day. If we play like we did this past season then sure, we WOULD be lucky and happy to attain the 4th seed. The thing is, that if we play to our Maximum potential, this same roster CAN win a championship. Im so tired of us ATLANTANS always settling for average. We have beaten the likes of the Magic, Cavs, Lakers, Nuggets before. All 4 teams that were in the conference finals. Why cant we elevate our expectations to the point where we believe we can consistently win against them and anybody else for that matter. Who knows what will happen next year. If we play to our maximum potential: Joe could be an MVP Josh could be an all-star of Defensive player of they year Crawford could be 6th man of the year Bibby could lead the league in 3pt shooting Marvin could become our 2nd leading scorer Al could avg 15 and 10 We could win 55+ games We could make to the finals We could win it ALL Who thought that the Magic would have made it to the finals THIS TIME LAST YEAR? or that Pistons would have won it all that year, or that Lebron would have led his Cavs to the finals in his 3rd/4th season (i forget which) or that the Heat would win it all on D-Wade's shoulders? Thats why you play the season, thats why you dont place 4th place expectations before you are even done filling out your roster. Anything can happen. Is it likely, probably not. but if you dont even TRY or Expect to acheive great things, the you will NEVER achieve them. But if you DO try and DO BELIEVE that those things can happen, then there is a CHANCE. and all 30 teams in the league start from the same place. its the ones that expect great things, who seperate themselves from the rest. Im tired of being "THE REST". I want us to start acting like we can win it all, thinking we can, and one day DOING IT

Tune in and reminisce (i dont how to spell that word) Josh Smith's coming out party to the NBA!!!

You are correct. they put asterisk's by players with options. I believe the key is: * Player option ** Team Option *** Buy out or opt out clause