Watchman

40 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Update

Hawks are still working on the secondary framework and the 3rd and potentially 4th team in a KAT to Atlanta deal. There has been some reluctance from an owner with Minnesota but their GM is strongly pushing for a trade right now as his value at its assumed peak. 

Teams see KAT like LA Blake Griffin right as he was traded to Detroit. The belief is, he has an all star or two seasons in him but many expect a steep decline with the new contract being a massive overpay. That's why there has been just two teams and of course, the two desperate to get better fast teams in the market for him which was Dallas and now currently Atlanta. 

He says Atlanta is also still talking with Toronto about Siakam but they are still really far from a trade. As I said, Siakam is Atlanta top target by a mile. 

Could we end this week with no trades, possibly but Atlanta is close on KAT. There is just secondary parts that aren't so easy to solve and JJ is NOT in the deal, Minnesota wants him in the deal and that might be causing some issues as well.

Still, I expect this to get done sooner than later or not at all. Also, I said two 1sts previously, I was wrong, they are still negotiating that but Minnesota wants two 1sts which they did get from Dallas before Atlanta out bidded them overall with Bey who Minnesota highly coveted. 

The key pieces are done, just the other pieces and 3rd parties are not for now. 

Nothing new aside from that. This isn't the done deal I thought it was yesterday but they aren't far either. 

I know this may seem silly to some on here, but I'd rather Keep AJ, JJ and OO than lose one or more of them to get KAT or Siakim..  KAT's Production is in decline and he is not a good defender.  Toronto is asking too much for Siakam and, true or not, his agent says he will not re-sign with any team that trades for him. P!us, Siakam is expecting too big of a paycheck. I do think we need some more talent, but I'd rather find it by trading Capela, Bey,and/or Hunter.  That's my two cents worth.

1 hour ago, parfait said:

I just want to say this now. This inside information about KAT has sprinkled pixie dust on my evening. And even if the trade falls apart, as any talks can, it will still have been well worth it.
 

But I’m just waiting for some dumbass to get pissy in the event that the insiders are “wrong.” You would be missing the whole point of the fluidity of inside information. And you would be woefully ungrateful for the joy that we are all now experiencing, as we lay our heads down to sleep, and dream, tonight.

If we get KAT we are going to need a backup C who can really play good defense.  Kind of like when we had Steve Hawes and Tree Rollins.

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Does this now change the perception of Landry among the fan base?

Why would it?  They have no problem trading away people who have signed extensions.

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Really excited that DM is going to be an Atlanta Hawk for years to come!  Congrats on becoming a hundred millionaire and here's to bigger and better things in Atlanta, Dejounte!

I'm delighted that we will re-sign Dejounte.  My concern is, once he is eligible to be traded, will management pull another Huerter, Collins, etc. on him?  I hope that this is not another one of those situations.

9 hours ago, KB21 said:

Grant Williams could be a Paul Millsap type of signing.  I still say that Paul is the best free agent acquisition this organization has ever made.  

Don't see the fascination with Grant Williams.  He scored 8.1 ppg, grabbed 4.6 rpg in 26 mpg. He did shoot 39.5% from 3 PT range, and he averaged 3.6 (I think) assists per game, but he ain't no Millsap.  BTW, I think Dikembe  and Moses Malone might disagree with you about the best free agent signing too.

8 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Seems to be finding different ways to say the same thing.

I'm not opposed to getting Siakam, but I wouldn't give up Murray to get him.  I thought management's goal was to get a "third star," not swap one for another.  Capela, Hunter and a 1st maybe, but you have to realize it might be a one season rental.

On 6/24/2023 at 9:28 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

This is where we are after the draft. Will update as we move forward.

11 Guaranteed contracts:
PG: Trae Young, Kobe Bufkin
SG: Dejounte Murray, Bogdan Bogdanovich, AJ Griffin
SF: DeAndre Hunter, Saddiq Bey
PF: John Collins, Jalen Johnson
C - Clint Capela, Onyeka Okongwu

4 Unguaranteed contracts:
PG: Vit Krejci
SG: Tyrese Martin, Garrison Mathews, Seth Lundy
SF:
PF:
C - Bruno Fernando, Mohammed Gueye

Two-Way Contracts:
PG: Trent Forrest
SG: Donovan Williams
SF:
PF:  Miles Norris
C - 

 

Total Salaries - $170,465,314 

 

 

2023 NBA Salary Cap Max

$136,000,000

 

2023 NBA Luxury Tax Threshold

$165,000,000

 

2023 NBA Super-Tax Apron

$182,500,000

You left off Cash Considerations.  Not sure what position he plays.

2 minutes ago, sillent said:

Last trade rumor I saw was DJ Murray and DeAndre Hunter for Paul George.  If we don't think DJ will resign add a 1st or two 2nd round picks and I'd do it.

Starters: PG Trae Young SG Paul George SF JJ/AJ PF Bey C Clint

(One out of our young stars would truly get to blossom out of AJ/JJ)

Bench: PG Kobe Bufkin (DJ replacement) SG Bogi (6 man candidate) F AJ/JJ/Lundy 

C OO

 

If we get Brook Lopez or Mo Bamba in free agency we'd be a tough, deep and complete team.

 

Paul George age not only would not hurt us but he'd be a valuable locker room presence for all our young players. He gives Trae another legit star to play with and a humble star at that. At his age he's hungry enough to win it all now and worse come to worse we'll be blessed with his presence this up and coming season and get a massive contract off our books for next season. Which will make it easier to extend our young players like OO/Bey and company as well as have cap space possibly to sign a big name free agent after this season.

 

 

 

No.  PG-13 lives on the injured reserve list.

On 6/27/2023 at 1:12 PM, AHF said:

As does health and role.  All of those were factors.

I think JC is much closer to a 20/10 player if he is your primarily role man and your team's best rebounder instead of being a relative afterthought in both areas.

Hard to do much when you are constrained to play on the corner 3 point line.  You're not in position to rebound, and you're not in position to score in the low post.

On 6/28/2023 at 9:03 AM, JeffS17 said:

FYI I know you're a bit late to these threads since JC got traded, but our word of the week is "histrionics" 

I would say he made a reasonable assessment, no histrionics included.

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

No, he's not.  He is a player who hasn't had any quality coaching in his career to maximize what he has.  

The same could be said for anyone on our roster, or those who were thrown on the garbage heap for nothing.

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

ugghh how many more miles does PG even have left. 13 years is a lot.

Older model, but has low mileage due to all the missed games.

4 hours ago, AHF said:

I'm going to disagree with this.  A big part of the reason for Quin coming in was so he could get a good look at the roster.  If he thinks we need change, then I'm good with that.  So I'm not saying that a trade for KAT is the right move (and realistically it depends on what trade for KAT in my book) but I don't see any reason to wait if you have an opportunity to make a move that Landry and Quin think is the right move.  There is no need to wait until Quin has spent a full year with the team - make the move now and then let Quin do exactly what you are saying with the players that our GM and Coach have identified as the foundation for the future.  That foundation doesn't have to be grown in-house.

Shame they didn't give Collins the same opportunity.

2 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

@Watchman i don’t understand your commentary. Under what scenario do we not need veterans? And you’re saying you’d rather overpay unproductive players than let them go if they aren’t contributing to winning?  

And in what world is valuing your own homegrown All-NBA player an overpay, especially compared to attracting someone else’s talent?

I can understand if you don’t have confidence in the FO to make the right choices, but you can’t argue against the logic in either the selective investment or the salary dump.

We had veterans.  We gave them away for nothing.  Tell me who you think these miracle working vets that we're going to acquire are.  People like DFS aren't going to put us over the top.  Neither will Ayton or KAT.  Who should we get?  Are they already overpaid? .Are they on a short contract?  Using your approach, if we acquire those players, we will have to replace them every year or two.  What if their replacements aren't as good.  It sounds like a plan for perpetual .500 basketball. As interested as playing for Snyder might be for certain players, the reputation and track record of our front office will be an equal deterrent.  

As for your question in your next to the last paragraph, it is irrelevant until we have such a player.

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Other news: hawks are trying to add the third star to the team to go WITH Trae and DJM. So DJM is, again, not going anywhere. 

You've heard most of the names already. Team wants to move DH and Capela and use the TPE aggressively to try and net a third star on the team. 

You so silly...They ain't gonna get back into luxury tax territory.

4 minutes ago, ABH said:

Yeah sounds like the hawks...lol

Trading Vit for KAT would be taking 3 steps forward and 5 steps back.

5 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

@Diesel

The Belkin model sounds ideal. Problem is in the player empowerment era your best young talent will force their way out of town before to construct the right mixture. What I like about that approach is it understands that while every asset is valuable, every asset isn’t going to get you closer to the goal of winning a championship.

Talent evaluators can’t (or shouldn’t) get emotionally attached to players (as has been reported that TS did here). You can’t pay everyone and not everyone is not going to contribute to winning at the highest level. This is what got Atlanta into this situation to begin with, overvaluing it’s own middling talent. JC was known to have his limitations. He wasn’t consistent enough to be the second best player on a championship squad. We knew that and paid him anyway. Deandre didn’t even play in our ECF run and brnefitted as being “the missing piece” to a championship core which was really Trae and a group of solid veterans (more on this in a moment)

Part of being a championship program is knowing when to part with talent that’s 1, blocking the pathway to playing time by younger talent with higher floors, 2, knowing when to sell high on talent that has plateaued and 3, knowing how to supplement your young talent with veteran support. 

Someone gave the example of Golden State. Before that team won a championship they sold off productive players like Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, and David Lee to make room for for guys like (Number 1 bust) Andrew Bogut, second rounder Draymond Green, declining Richard Jefferson Kevon Looney, etc. Those guys all played a major role in their championship DNA. The foundations to that team weren’t laid by simply valuing guys they drafted but by knowing who did/didn’t fit. In some cases you had to sell low on guys, or let guys walk, but that’s part of the game because if you don’t have dealmaking flexibility you’re fxcked. 

When you pay everyone, yes you retain assets but lose roster flexibility and restrict your ability to compete with non-championship talent. But when nobody wants to (or has the ability to) take back their overinflated contract or give you equal or greater value in exchange, you’re stuck with guys (like JC and Hunter) who have some ability but are too inconsistent/major flaws in their game to contribute to winning at the highest level.

In our attempts to lock up our own talent for cheap, we overbid ourselves on the RFA market, not once but TWICE. Arguably those two contracts are the biggest albatross on our ability to compete right now. Like, let’s be real. Does anyone see JC or Hunter as starters on a championship level squad? Would they make the starting 5 for any legitimate championship contender? Would you replace anyone in the Nuggets starting five with these guys? What about the Warriors? Or the Bucks? If the answer is no, then stop crying over spilled milk. Which brings me to my last point.

This team needs VETERANS. I think Trae and DJ will be fine. But we need guys around them who know and can play their roles at a high level. That’s what makes Bogi and Capela so valuable to this team because they know their roles and play them well. This is why Gallo and Lou were so big on that last ECF team. Even Solomon Hill, as much as he had no business playing, knew his role. If a couple of our young dudes develop and we add the RIGHT veteran piece or two to our rotation (namely on the wings) I think it greatly changes the trajectory of this team very fast. This is going to likely come from that TPE or trade pool. Now Capela is beginning to decline, now is the time to sell on him while he has value that can return us AT THE LEAST an equally talented role player and preferably a positional or asset upgrade. Thats the FO job to find that player(s). 

Why do we need veterans?  We just give them away for peanuts so that Ressler doesn't have to pay the luxury tax.  Nothing this  move did gave us "flexibility."  We want a so-called star or above average player, we have to overpay to get them (the league is laughing at our "management" team over giving away Collins for nothing.)  You spend a portion of your cap to get a mid-level player.   There's a reason their salary is mid-level.  We have done nothing but make fools of ourselves.  BTW, Trae is not going to get you a championship either.  Once again, Hawks management has royally screwed things up.  I guarantee you that Collins, under a real head coach, with a good offensive system, would have played better. But once again, management's short sightedness shines forth in all its glory, and trades him for nothing, before he ever had a chance to work under Quin's system.   Anything will be better than alternating one on one with Trae and Murray, while everyone else stands around and watches.

Hate to tell you this, but we overpaid  for Bogi too.  We obviously greatly overpaid for Trae.  Based on your comments, you seem to thank management will now play hard ball with our free agents.  I look forward  to see how that works out with DM.  He's going to go with whoever will pay him.

5 hours ago, JustSomeGuy said:

John Collins is not and will never be an All Star player. If you told me he might contribute to them winning more, yeah sure, but the hyperbole needs to be given a rest. Most of his perceived values comes from playing with an elite shot creator in the first place. He was a net negative on the court on both the eye test and metrics test. We upgraded by letting him go if for nothing else than clearing pathways to PT for talent that fits better. 

What talent that fits better would that be? Mid level salary players with a year remaining on their contract?  Your "eye test" is meaningless, just an opinion like everyone else's, you just don't like Collins.  BTW, "elite shot creator"...are you Trae's dad?

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Sorry. I meant Ayton.

12 minutes ago, warcore said:

this is what I hate... I just know they're going to wait a year or two when his contract looks better and get multiple 1sts for him

 

Kobe for Vlade

Bill Russell (to Celtics) for Ed Macauley and Cliff Hagan (to Hawks).

10 hours ago, thecampster said:

Audible sigh.   Hey wait, does that reaction count as histrionics?

 

We had Collins, we were not a championship club. Nothing in his metrics or trends points to him being a championship type player. He was a net negative last year and has been all but 2 years of his career. That makes his impact average, not championship quality. That can't be your 2nd highest paid player. It just can't. 

 

I suggest you pour one out for Collins and move on.

Hate to tell you this, but no one we would be able to acquire will make us a championship team.  Quin will get tired of this mess after about three years, if not sooner, and will leave us just like he did with Utah.  KAT, Siakam (as I have been bombarded with), Gobert, Oden nor any of the other alleged targets we seek will make us a championship team.  The mid level players mentioned won't help us either.

17 minutes ago, terrell said:

NOBODY went to bed thinking that.. lol

 Trading JC was essential, not just financially, but for a more mobile front court that can move the ball and spread the floor in attack and for the chances of defending differently.

Crazy yall want Quin to keep players he doesnt believe fits what he wants.. smh

Yall should be happy for JC.. There isnt any Siakams, Randles, or Giannis' out West...

Im just thankful we didnt have to attatch any assets, or take back salary to move him...

I look forward to watching JJ shut down Siakam, Randle and Giannis.  

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I 100% would trade Trae Young for Embiid

I agree, other than the fact that Embiid is out for three weeks every time he gets a hangnail.  

Fouling out seems to be a big problem for OO.  Hopefully Quin can help him figure out how to cut down on that.