Crank

Joe and Crawford were both top ten in minutes played last year now Crawfords gonna drop all the way to 25 minutes per game ? I think both will see reduced minutes minutes but the one who will see a drastic reduction in minutes is Bibby. Instead of the 38-39 minutes Crawford and Joe were playing last year it will be 35-36 but Bibby will go from 34 to probably around 30 .

Mcdyess would be awesome for the right price and as long as hes part of the rotation but I also like Gortat for the right price because we need the size and physicality of his game .

In searching for something from his teammates or coaches that says he was selfish or a ballhog I came across this . http://foxsports.foxnews.com/nba/story/919...eId=20090207043 One thing about shooting I was looking at 82games.com and checking out some of Crawfords stats . I havent seen the teams hes played on that much and I noticed like northcyde that 85% of his shots were jumpshots but then I also noticed that 39% were unassisted which very few players can put up good shooting numbers creating that many shots on their own . His efg% as a Warrior was 46% But I also wanted to see his knicks stats because thats who he went to camp with last year as he joined the Warriors after the season started . With the knicks 82% was jumpshots but 52% were unassisted and his efg% was 54% . The knicks numbers under Dantoni is only a small sample but we know that that system is based on ball movement and good decision making . Before his trade he was shooting 43% from two but 45% from 3 so he really is a enigma but I think he will be a pleasant surprise for us .

My point was that you dont know how he will fit because Crawford has not played a game yet . But Ive yet to find anyone who has said Crawford wouldnt play the role that he was asked. Why wouldnt he feed Josh ? Again you are predicting worse case scenario . of course they are it means you were fouled while shooting but it also means you are putting the ball on the floor and getting into the lane something Bibby does not do and Crawford does and then he also shoots a better percentage as well. 5th team in 9 seasons ? but he was on two of those teams for 8 seasons ? yeah it screams journeyman lol My point was that I think he will play a whatever role is asked of him it just so happens that on those teams he was asked to generate points. He was with the Bulls for 4 years and then the knicks for 4 years and then GS for one year and now us . . Size means alot when a team is attacking you with the smallest backourt in the league like the cavs were . Now we have someone that can make them rethink those matchups Do you have any proof of this ? I dont know how you could argue that adding him doesnt improve our teams ft percentage considering hes the 14th best ft shooter in the league Because he cannot carry a team by himself . Hes not Kobe,Lebron or Dwight . Correct me if Im wrong but didnt he get SIGNED and then traded to the knicks ? and then the knicks traded him because they were dumping salary for 2010 ? The Warriors traded for him as insurance for Monta and now that Monta is said to be healthy and they invested near max dollars in him they decided to move Crawford as they are guard heavy ? Why do you keep mentioning Reef ? You are living in the past because the two situations are nothing alike . Reef was a maxed out #3 pick being traded for a #3 pick . Crawford is no where near max and he was traded for scrubs in a salary dump. Reef was considered a franchise player and I dont think Crawford was ever considered a franchise player . This team plays one on one by coaches design thats the offense .I was one of the main proponents of trading for Amare .I never for once believed that we should drop Bibby because we have Crawford but I do believe there are things that Crawford does that would improve the team especially if our goal is to get further in the playoffs .

I had to go look this stuff up so my replies may be a bit slow . Crawford was 14-26 from the field and 17-18 from the line the last time he went for 50 points last year against the Bobcats. Bibby and Crawford are different types of players but with similar overall skillsets . But make no mistakes Crawfords scoring ability at this point is much deadlier than Bibbs shooting ability. Bibby is on the decline and if we choose to ignore that we are doomed . Why would having Crawford at pg mean more turnovers when we mainly run the iso joe offense . I dont think Crawford will have much problem getting the ball up the floor and getting it to Joe . He shoots a lower percentage but he also shot 20o0 more free throws in fewer games . Make no mistake Bibby shot a higher percentage than Joe last year but then again Joe is creating hjis own offense as was Crawford . At some point when quoting these stats you have to acknowledge the responsibilities of the player within the team they are playing on. Bibby is on his 3rd team Joe is on his 3rd team Crawford is on his 3rd team Shaq is on his 5th team seriously ..journeyman ? :) as for jacking up a bunch of shots thats what his team asked him to do . As Ive tried to read some of the articles on the net about Crawford Ive yet to run across anything that says his teammates thought he shot too much or that his coaches didnt want him shooting. he may shoot too much for the fans but it seems the circumstances on the teams he played on the coaches wanted him to be agressive offensively. For some reason people equate shot attempts with points but lets be real here if we gave Zaza 20 shot attempts a game do you think he would lead all centers in scoring ? Of course not because at some point the talent has to be there for you in the highest level of play in the world to be scoring that much. I said earlier I though he could do all of the basic things we asked Bibby to do like spot up shooting ,defense ,bringing up the ball and giving it to Joe and leading the occasional break . Where I thought he could help us is Hes a legit,respected scorer in this league and teams cant try and hide weak defenders on him the way they tried too with Bibby He gets to the ft line as evidenced by him shooting almost 200 more ft attempts than Bibby in fewer games . He allows us to use mismatches against certain teams. defensively makes us a bigger and much quicker team allowing us in certain situations to employ switches and traps Very good off the pick and roll like Bibby but actually has the ability to still turn the corner The flat out ability to close out a basketball as evidenced by him being one of the best 4th quarter scorers in the league as well as one of the best ft shooters .I think him being on the squad immediately lifts our overall ft percentage which is horrible for us not to have a Shaq or Dwight Howard . He has the ability to flat out take over a game and when you are winning team and you can add that it makes you even better . To have somsone that can come out and get you twenty in a quarter at anytime and be able to in a close game go 10-10 in the last 3 minutes to hold a lead is is huge . But I want to keep both because good teams dont swap out talent they stack and I we shouldnt be paying Bibby 10+ million or a deal longer than 3 years . Crawford in this situation is ideal because he is a 2 year rental who is younger than Bibby but I prefer to keep them both if we can. But starting Crawford at point guard wouldnt be a disaster because unlike every other team hes played for hes not here to save us .

When I read stuff like this i have to ask questions How many 40 pt games did Delk have ? 30 pt games ? Jamison and Reef were both good players but like Sund said in the interview they cannot turnaround a losing team. I dont think anyone said start him because he scored fifty but because he is a younger overall much more productive player .Who is capable of doing the same things as Bibby but also capable of doing things Bibby is no longer capable of doing. I like to judge player on everything , production,attitude,team performance . I dont think Crawford is on the same level as a Lebron or Kobe and I would be 100 percent certain that I dont think anyone else does either but that is the only caliber of player that wouldve given any of the franchises Crawford has played for a chance to win . Granger made the all star team but if you took him and placed him on the Clippers would that turn that team around ? I doubt it because as Sund says a good player cannot turn around a losing team by himself but they can help a winning team . And Ive never seen anyone try and diminish someone scoring fifty in a nba game like that. Thats a heckuva achievment no different than lets say if next season Sessions gets 25 assists . That doesnt make his a better player than Stockton but it does mean that on that day he played as good of a game as some of the best to ever play . Crawford has done that on 3 different occasions and came close to that on several others

You offer him a 4 yr deal with a opt out clause after 3 allowing him to get full bird rights and a chance at max money if he does well.

Well for one you claiming this before Crawford even has a chance to play with the team . Secondly you are giving Bibby waay too much credit here . He solidified a position that we had journeymen playing for years but his play was average and he is aging. I think everyone wants Bibby back but his play has in no way be indicative of what his asking price will be . At the end of the day this team is nearing a point where for us to take the next step Smoove,Marvin,JJ, and AL will have to start carrying that leadership burden as the wins and losses fall on their shoulders so we will only go as far as they take us . Some of you make it sound that if we dont have Bibby we wont run a play or even show up and that everyone wont know what to do . This even after the two playoff appearances and 48 wins this past season . As for Crawford I look at his contribution like this . He has the ability to be the best player on the floor in any game hes in and Bibby just doesnt have that anymore . You want your point guard to be able to run your team but you also need him to be able to sometimes just take over the game and make his presence felt . In the playoffs even against role playing guards Mo Williams and West Bibby looked woefully over matched even in games where he shot the ball well and would end up 17-18 points . The opponent never looked as though they were worried about Bibby beating them . Another thing I would like to touch on is that Bibby is a system point guard . He wasnt asked to do much and in the playoffs if you look his assists totals were 9,4,3,3,3,3,6,8,1,5,1 in that order . He shot 22 fts in 11 playoff games and while yes his intangibles are important I dont think this team can afford to have him on the floor for 35 mpg anymore because hes on the decline .

lol :) By that I meant that since its a superstar league you need someone who can get us those calls that superstars gets . The respect level around the league and with the refs would go up bigtime if we got Amare.

I think people are underestimating what Amare brings to the table here. We are not talking about just an all star bigman who can score . This is a bigman that was FIRST TEAM ALL NBA and the moment he becomes a Hawk would be the best offensive bigman in the East. Amare can pass and has seen every double team imaginable and gets to the line . The nba is a superstars league and Amare instantly ups our swagger rating ten fold . Lets go down last years all star roster at the C-f spot shall we :smile: Lebron Kg Howard Granger Pierce Bosh lewis Getting Amare pushes us into a top two seed with the right follow up moves . It counters the Magic getting VC It counters Clevland getting Shaq and it forces the Celts to rethink seriously about making a move

because he was recently traded I dont think he can be traded again for 2 months or until August 25th

How many young teams can you name that kept 4-5 young players together for years ? That pretty much is a fantasy video game way of thinking . That they all will grow at the same rate and that they all will reach their potential. It would be pretty naive of Sund to think that all our team needs is seasoning. Potential doesnt win championships and its not like Amare is 30+ hes 27 . How would Amare make our defense worse he blocks shots at the same rate and is a pretty good help defender in his own right. We would trade away some perimeter defense versatility but add a player who we could go to when our outside shots are not falling. We are talking about someone who lives in the paint who makes over 80% fta and is top ten in the league in fta . Amare would actually balance the way this team plays and I would rather balance it out and take my shot now with flexibility to quickly retool than to sit back in the middle of the pack and watch our window close .

thanks its a tough decision but I hear people saying how we may lose Joe anyway so how about a calculated move to try and play for the East crown next year.If it works its our first appearance and if it doesnt we get cap space (if we dont extend ) and we are right in the thick of things next summer . If we extend we have one of the best cores in the east with Amare,Joe,and Al and that will attract veteran playmakers down the line . You cant be reactionary but you certainly cant bank on solely internal growth either when everyone else around you is making moves for all stars and such either. I think Amare would be a great to help Al work on his pick and roll game . Joe and Bibby are good in the pick and roll and Sund said Crawford was great in the pick and roll too. We have someone in which to attack Cleveland and Orlando with that their guards will actually have to help on. Orlando romped through the east forcing everyone to adjust to their style until they met the Lakers who forced Orlando to adjust to their style . I think a healthy Amare would give us that .

but that would also open up major cap space for us to be players that year as well. There is so much uncertainty with there possibly being a lockout in 2011 that a move like this is basically a move to try and get to the finals and a chance to play for a ship next season and then if one or both walk we retool .One of the worst things a franchise can do is be afraid to go for it all . I look at this like the Bulls situation of 05-07 . They made the first rd one year and then the semifinals the second year. Everyone thought they would go hard after KG(who they couldve gotten) but instead decided to use cap to get Ben Wallace because that wouldnt require giving up any of there young players . Now today Hinrich on the block ,Gordon may walk for nothing ,Deng is a 71 million dollar bust ,and Ben Wallace was one of the worst signings in a long while . At a certain point Sund has to decide how far does he think we can get with our current group. I listened to his interview on the radio and he said that we had to try and catch the teams in front of us while staying ahead of the team behind us and the gap for the teams in front of us is much larger. If we want to compete for titles then we have to consider acquiring an Amare or a Bosh.This window of opportunity wont be open forever .

I don't think hes gonna start but I wouldn't be surprised to see him getting good minutes in the rotation by February.

To make this deal work we would have to include Smith and Teague and a resigned Marvin as well. I would much rather use those assets for Bosh . However sometimes if you wanna play in the big leagues you gotta swing for the fences .A move bringing in Bosh or Amare would say that Atlanta is playing for a title and is not happy just being in the playoffs . Now if we were to do this and then they both opt out we clear a ton of space before the league has another lockout .

Crawford gets to the line more than Bibby waaay more . Crawford is just as good open court playmaker as Bibby and neither are good as halfcourt playmakers and how could they in the iso Joe offense when its not even a requirement . So when talking about the playmaking aspect of both players unless we were to change our offensive style of play then its a wash. Ive been researching and trying to find some stuff about Crawford but Ive yet to find anything to show where he started the regular season as the point guard since he played for the Bulls. It has always been as shooting guard but then something changes and he ends up at the point guard spot. So who know really how he would respond if given the role of pg in training camp and kept in that role the entire season. The one thing I do know when comparing these players is that if Flip and Bibby got it going 20 points would be great for them well if Crawford gets it going youre talking about 30,40, and even points as being a possibility. If you could put that next to Joe it really forces the opposing coaches to have to game plan for our point guard something they didnt have to do for Flip or Bibby . My hope is that we keep both though because good teams dont swap out talent they stack it