Crank

Grats to Joe first of all Im just glad a Hawk won it . But when I looked I saw that Crawford averaged 22 points per game,4 assists per game, and shot 51% from the field in that same span as well . They shouldve had all 3 teammates share the award

so we shouldve postponed the game until everyone is healthy ? I think the nba should look into that and only allow the games to be played in which both teams are fully healthy .

This aint the BCS how much you lose by is irrelevant

Joe is worth more to us simply because we would possibly lose him for nothing. Also right now he is in the top 25 in salary if we paid him what he wants he immediately shoots into the top ten in salary and that opens up a ton of other questions like Can Joe sufficiently fill the seats to warrant that type of salaried commitment to him ?At one point it will be over 20 million per year! Have we seen enough from a leadership standpoint to suggest he can keep this team on a upward slope ? How will this affect our ability to improve the team going forward ? Are we prepared to S & T him ? what is our relationship with teams thats will have cap space ? There are plenty of questions that need to be answered by next summer .

Im torn about this issue now .I was fully behind Diesel in the summer as I knew from watching some film that Crawford would be this good in hawks uniform.However Crawford is a very confident player who will do well no matter where we put him .He is in his prime and is a top 15 SG in this league right now .Marvin doesnt seem to have much confidence right now and I would rather use the next few weeks trying to help him find it . I was hoping Woody wouldve left Marvin in with the second unit in the second half as I think Crawford may be more help to his game at this point then JJ . The other reason I think its best to have Crawford off the bench is I dont know how JJ will handle it . He seems pretty fragile right now and he seems to know with every good game by Crawford and Smoove the chance to prove he is worth the full max will come down to how well he does in the playoffs . Im for status quo right now with a revisiting of this topic after 25 games .

Just looked it up and the last time Crawford went to Charlotte he dropped 50 on them and basically destroyed Augustin and Felton at the pg position . We should probably see him more at the point tonight then at SG. I also read somewhere that Wallace and Felton have yet to make a three pointer this season . Lets come out strong and put them away early so we can rest for the Nuggets

and again you are talking about the knick faithful wiothout taking into account what the coach is asking him to do . Did the coaches just ask him to average 16-18 ? The knicks gave crazy Marbury 20 million per year and yet Crawford was left holding the bag . Just by a simple click on his stat page I can see that in 2007 he averaged 17 ppg In 2008 he averaged 20 ppg In 2009 he averaged 19 ppg for the knicks under D'antoni in 2009 he averaged 19 ppg for the warriors In 2010 he is now averaging 17 ppg for us and I wouldnt be surprised if by the seasons end he is back averaging 19-20 ppg Nothing has changed about Crawfords game it seems just the people around him and the way he has to go about getting his numbers . Ive never heard anyone talk about someone being feast or famine when that guy has never had a team built around them . All indicators are that the jamal gave the knicks the 16-18 ppg but since the knicks were in turmoil they squandered it . The knicks were Marburys team and he failed to live up to the billing as a #1 and if you look and compare Crawfords numbers to other #3/borderline #2 guys in the league his numbers are right there .Those guys are #2/3 because they cant carry the load by themselves which means they will have the occasional stinker if they were consistent they would be a #1. Dude everyone has weaknesses in the nba that is essentially your problem I see .You are holding to some standard that you dont hold anyone else to. No one has said he doesnt Im just saying that the magnitude of his weaknesses as you claim them to be has not given any indications of manifesting themselves and that could simply be because the knicks have been a craphole of a organization for quite a while that basically magnifies his weaknesses kinda like when anyone joins the clippers . The fact that we dont have all the drama here,have made the playoffs,and have a solid leadership from the top down makes this an entirely different situation . I dont get with knowing what a mess that franchise is why we would hold that over Crawfords head and not judge him based on what he has shown in a hawks uniform .

How can you be consistent when your role is forever changing ? as well as the coaches and players as well as the front office issues ? hes scored 50 3 times in career yet somehow in your mind you have set 50 POINTS AS A REASONABLE PLATEAU FOR HIS PLAY . To average 19 pts per game for a season in your example he would have to score 50 points what about 10-12 times ? Again if you have to exaggerate it it usually is not true . From what I could tell isiahs last year he started out at sg and then had to play point with Fred taylor and nate robinson manning the sg position after Marbury abandoned the team basically but yet when I look at his stats from last year under Dantoni he was playing pretty solid ball not the erratic play you are talking about . He then left that environment with both he and the knicks playing well and went to GS where Nelson was erratic with his behavior and allowed Stephen Jackson to becomes the teams captain and mentor to the young guys and his play went up and down and now here he is with us and again he hasnt exhibited any of the stuff youve talked about . Hes not a stat hound is a willing passer has made some nice defensive plays in the short season and in his 3 pt game didnt force the issue at all. So when I look and see how the knicks are still struggling and GS is are still having the same problems they had even before they traded to Crawford and with all hes shown me so far I have to say its those organizations not Crawford that was the problem. No leadership and organization at the top will lead to erratic play and production on the court. I find the entire Crawful to Crawesome thing ridiculous as every player in the nba makes good and bad plays/decisions and yes even in the same game .

I said before the season started that you guys shouldnt expect to see Teague get any consistent minutes yet . No coach would be playing him on this road trip if he didnt have too.we should expect to see him consistently heading into the new year after he has gotten an idea of the routine and life on the road in the nba.

II think the dual personality charges may be a bit overblown since the the previous two teams he played on had Stephon Marbury and Stephen Jackson in charge :eek: After seeing what those two to do the organizations they play for I could never imagine how it is to play with them.

You dont usually make changes in the starting lineup so early in the season you usually wait 20-25 games . I actually like Crawford coming off the bench as it allows us to really force the tempo when he comes in . It allows everyone to get a clear understanding of what there roles are when he does come in the game and it allows us to go from iso joe offense to a pick and roll offense which allows us to get to the line an awful lot and by the time the starters return opponents are in the bonus and every foul they use while trying to double joe send us to the ft line . Marvin has been a huge disappointment but its the nba and you get more than 2-3 games to make your mark. I like Bibbys role right now as well simply because it lures teams in to think its the same ol Hawks .The Blazers did not expect for Crawford to have the ball that much and it really confuses them as teams gameplan for the iso joe .As I said in the summer teams do not want their point guards guarding Crawford well except the Celts who have Rondo . But everyone else he causes them fits and now that you have to put your top defender on Joe and now you have this other guy who can shoot from anywhere with the ball on the opposite side of the floor .Who do you double ? when do you double ? off of who do you double ? what about Josh sneaking backdoor for the lobs this opens up soo much of the floor for everyone.

I expect to see more of Crawford at PG as he has brought a legit pick and roll game to the lineup. Tonight against the Lakers Crawford vs Fisher is probably our biggest advantage There is no need to sit Joe if anything we need to start weeding out iso joe and go to a offense that incorporates more of our weapons .

The Pacers averaged a 105 ppg last year so winning a shootout against them on opening night is that big of a deal. Since when is the pick and roll not team basketball ?

As I said the other day why on earth would Woody ever allow Crawford to take a back seat to Smith,Zaza,Evans or Teague at this point. You put the onus on him to impact the game with his scoring as he should then expect him as a veteran to make the adjustment to finding his teammates when the defenses start to adjust . Good start by Woody with the pregame talk now he just needs to be in his ear doing the game . We didnt bring Crawford here the Pacers of the league but we are gonna need him to match the benches of the Wizards and on the road against LA. We are not gonna be able to match there firepower without Crawford in full blown attack mode .

thats true and also Crawford is a veteran you have to believe that he knows how to avoid that 5th in closing out games .

Its not that big of a deal on opening night but I have yet to see any real plan put into place to integrate Crawford into what we do. We have him out there setting up Joe smith and Zaza lol . That wont work when we play the the top teams . We should not fall into a lull while playing the weaker teams . When Crawford comes in off that bench we should be running sets 9-10 straight times for him forcing that opposing coach to make adjustments . He came in against Jones and Watson and just passed the ball around . Thats not why hes here and we should be using these games to prepare for the top teams because we are going to need that scoring when we play teams with good inside presences. We have Orl,Por,NO twice,lakers,Bos and thats in the first month. We cant afford to wait 2 months while Crawford tries and proves he can pass and Woody shouldnt let him do it either . Make Teague run the second unit and put in some sets for Crawford early .Its still early so Im not really worried but I just have a feeling that these early games this year will be very important come playoff positioning time .

I think the problem many have is that Vince handed Joe his lunch right from the start. Where is that leadership on the court when someone like Vince is going nutz ? How about he throw a hard foul or something .He was so laid back he shouldve just stayed on the team bus and snoozed . Where is Joe taking a charge, going hard for a block,or diving for a loose ball ? The young guys have followed his lead of laid backness and now hes shocked ? Say it aint so Joe ..

thats true but also if you put Crawford in the lineup with Wade then Wade would go out of his way to make sure Crawford felt comfortable and was involved even passing up shots himself . After watching the game again (yes I know ) :beathorse: the one thing that stood out to me is that Bibby and Joe know what Crawford is capable of and yet when Crawford was on the court with them they pretty much ignored him the entire time even though Joe was having an off night. For this team to do BIG things everyone must realize that when Joe is off its in all of our best interests to establish Crawford as quickly as possible . I noticed that Woody gave Crawford some extended minutes with both Bibby and Joe and I dont think he attempted a shot . So something has to give we have to know who to go to and when . I was thinking to myself Joe can create a shot for someone why not try and set Crawford up for some looks thats what wade ,Kobe or or any of the elite talents would do find the guys brought in to help them and give them the opportunity. Joe didnt have to shoot that poorly he couldve created opportunities for Crawford who doesnt really need to have someone create for him but by doing so Joe sends a message to everyone .

You would have a point if they were getting blown out every game but they finished the preseason 5-2 . Every team in the league is spotted a game or two and one loss doesnt wipe out the entire preseason . The loss didnt bother me but I wanted to see some passion and intensity at least early on from the starters especially that front line . I wanted to see who on that frontline was ready to take that next step . But all 3 looked like boys among men out there tonight and thats a bit disheartening but again its only preseason they have earned that much and they have next week to reward that trust .

you are spot on . the entire point of having a bench is so that when the starters are not cutting it you go to your bench . As soon as he saw they were not ready to play he shouldve went hard with the reserves and not put a starter back in until the second half . With increased expectations comes ....well INCREASED EXPECTATIONS and this team should be beyond starts like this now . If you cant get your intensity up in a road game against a division rival and conference champ then how can you seriously talk about taking the next step. Come next week If Im Woody I better see some intensity and passion or Im going to bench early and often .

If its one thing I know about NBA basketball to be 100% fact is that preseason means NOTHING. So Joe didnt feel like playing on the second night of a road back to back ... well it sucks for fans but hey he doesnt have to he just needs to show up next week . I do think that this was crap orchestrated just so the NBA could the magic on espn .,

This is a game where you have to make sure you take advantage of matchups when they come your way . Who will the magic start at PF Barnes or Bass against Smoove Jason williams vs teague Crawford vs JJ redick Marvin vs Pietrus I think the one thing I am looking forward to is how well we rebound against this team as it will also be a good indicator for games against Clevland Boston too.

Yeah I see him starting out with 15 mpg and then having it go up or down from there depending on how well hes playing .I think first we have to remember that its only preseason and that when the regular season starts he may not get a call at all.I think he will be allowed to play more of a scoring role beside Crawford the first couple of games and if he does well Woody will give him a shot on the road trip .However if he struggles against The pacers and Wizards I think Woody increases Crawfords and Evans minutes on that road trip. Preseason to regular season for rookie scoring guards is always tricky .

But that is how Crawford has played the past few years. He tried to play the same way at GS and I posted an article about it where Nelson is basically forcing him to shoot. He hasnt been on a team in quite a while where his top priority wasnt looking to score. Even on GS with all those scorers nelson was still pushing him to shoot more . I even read something where Crawford and Corey Maggette got into argument while Crawford was playing pg because someone on the Warriors was having a great start to the game (Jackson I think) and they were getting him the ball and in control of the game and then Maggette comes in and immediately starts shooting with no regard for who was hot when he came in the game. From talking with a couple of knicks fans they say Crawford is notorious for not having his shooting stroke in the preseason but then comes out on fire when the season starts . I think Crawford really is gonna help Teague because when he's on the floor with Crawford he doesnt have to run the club as much which will take a lot of pressure off of him . This will allow Teague to get more minutes than he would normally get if Woody was dependent upon him solely running the club.

I would say this is all by design , its the best way to get Teague,Siler and a few other some quality evaluation time . I guarantee that Crawford and Joe get plenty of minutes the final 3-4 games . That is when you start putting together your rotation for the regular season. You almost never see 30+ yr old bigmen playing a ton in the preseason unless they are out of shape as well. .