REHawksFan

1 minute ago, Nash said:

Problem is that the teams don't believe that you can do that at a high clip and that's why Tony Snell is out of the league and Holiday changed 5 teams in the last 5 years. Holiday with 1.0 fgm made out of 2.3 (43%) is ranked at 165. And if you're thinking that Aaron is drawing more attention on ofense than for example Bogi than you're fooling yourself. And if you think that Aaron can do the same on 7 or more attempts than you're fooling yourself even more

You are the one that brought up Aaron. Not sure why.  Trae has proven that he can make a high % of shots on increased volume. What is it about Trae's game that makes you think he can't? I'm genuinely asking because for most of this thread you've had your head in the sand on this topic. 

22 minutes ago, AHF said:

I personally was hoping AJ and Kobe would make it 10 legit NBA players but neither has had the minutes and performance to be called that yet.  Kobe is giving me confidence with his last couple games so I expect him to be a regular in the rotation going forward.  

Part of the challenge there, though, is that both are backcourt players and the frontcourt is where we have the biggest weaknesses on the roster.  Hunter being the only big wing defender and missing almost half the season before he returned.  JJ being the only real PF and missing a chunk of time.  CC and OO both missing time and showing a reluctance to give Bruno minutes even when one of them was out.  That frontcourt has been shallow as ****.

The problem woth that of course is that AJ and Kobe were 14th and 15th rather than 9th and 10th. We apparently came onto the season with some combination of the Matthews Duo, Bruno, Forrest, and Mills as the 9-13 roster spots. That's untenable. 

46 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

 

This shows the kind of team we could have been not only with Jalen but if we had actually started the season with a backup PF on the roster. 

 

Despite the "mis-fitting" roster, it's not a stretch at all, imo, to think this team could be over .500 IF they simply had NBA quality depth OR had been extraordinarily lucky with the injuries.  You can't go into an NBA season with 8 legit NBA players and expect to have success unless you just get super lucky injury wise.  

Looking at the standings now, I could see them in that 5-8 logjam IF they either had adequate depth OR had been healthy all year.  Of course, no team is healthy all year which certainly begs the question what they heck Landry, Kyle, and Ressy were thinking coming into the season with 8 quality NBA players.  

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

I did the math.  Since his rookie season, Trae has shot 41.3% on catch and shoot 3's.  (He is 190 for 460).

His efg% on those shots is 62.0%.  That is a very good shot for this or any other team.

But he only makes 0.8 per game so clearly he's not a good catch and shoot 3pt shooter.  

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We haven't built anything that resembles making Trae and off ball threat.   So he doesn't have the opportunity to be a catch and shoot player. 

Pull out the old Reggie Miller offenses that the Pacers used to run if you want him to be a catch and shoot scorer. 

The truth is that every coach we have had would rather run an offense with the ball in Trae's hands rather than him coming off of screens.   If we understand that FACT.. then there is no argument. 

 

Exactly.  And that's the reason that Trae has few attempts.  But he's been successful at those attempts and that, combined with his other shooting numbers, suggests he'd have no problem increasing his attempts and maintaining his efficiency.  Any way you slice it, using FGM for c/s 3pts as some barometer for whether Trae is a good shooter is nonsensical.  

1 minute ago, Nash said:

Man you sound like my wife now. When the data is against her she starts changing topic same as you. We're talking here catch and shoot and not 3pt catch and shoot let alone 3pt volume shooting. Trae is taking 2.2 attempts per game while playing 35+ mpg. That is considered low volume c&s and you can't tell if it's good or bad as there is not enough sample size. It's idiotic to say that if he takes more like 6.6 he'd hit 2.4 same as it would be idiotic to say if Hinton takes 6 3pta he'd hit 4.8. They're both low volume 

In the first post of yours that I responded to, you specifically said about Trae, "he is not a good catch and shoot 3pt shooter."  What you don't seem to comprehend is that low volume is not always the same as not good at it. 

Why is he low volume?  That's the question. 

Is it because, as you claim, he's incapable of doing it?  The data suggests that's false since he's a high % shooter in general from 3pt.  And more specifically, he's high % on high volume.  So it makes sense, or should to most logical people, that if Trae is high % on high volume from 3pt in general AND he's high % on low volume on c/s 3pt, then it's certainly within the realm of reasonableness that he can also be high % on higher volume on c/s 3pt.

So then we ask, what's the most likely scenario?  He doesn't have high volume because he's incapable of it?  OR, what's pretty obvious to logical people that actually watch the Hawks, is it because Trae has the ball in his hands most of the time and on the few occasions when he's off ball, the Hawks don't run sets for him to catch and shoot routinely?  Watching the games suggests that's true. 

I'll say it again.....low volume DOES NOT equate to BAD SHOOTER.    

3 minutes ago, Nash said:

You finally got it. It's idiotic to compare someone who gets 0.8 made on 1fga (80%) with somebody who made 0.8 on 2.2 (38.7%) attempts. Same as it's idiotic to compare somebody who made 2.7 on 7.2 with somebody 0.8 on 2.2. It just is. Same as it's idiotic to say that statmuse is wrong and your right.

Same as it's idiotic to say that if you take more fga you'd hit them at the same clip. (this one is good)

There is a reason why Trae, a high volume shooter is only taking 2.2 attempts per game

Trae made 38% on 9.5 attempts.  He's not a volume shooter from 3pt.  Just stop with that nonsense.  Volume is only able to make 3 if you take 9 or 10.  He's literally a 40% catch and shoot player for his career.  That's on some 600+ attempts.  And from 3pt overall he's a career 35% on high volume.  But even then his 3 highest % years were his 3 highest volume years.  Trae has proven that he sustains a high % on high volume.  There's no reason to think he wouldn't do the same on catch and shoot.  Your point here is 100% invalid.  

1 hour ago, Nash said:

For you Nate Hinton is a very good 3pt shooter with 0.8fgm on 1 fga 80% Saying that he doesn't do it often would be true but saying that he's not a good 3pt shooter would be a lie correct?

Just learn what volume and sample size means and then try to argue. But that could be overwhelming for you considering how you replied. I didn't put Trea outside top 200 statmuse did 

This is complete nonsense.  If you aren't going to be serious there's no reason having this discussion.  Just admit you are wrong and move on.  Or don't. I don't care. 

Nate Hinton has attempted 30 3pt FG in his career.  Trae has attempted nearly 3,000.  And Trae has multiple seasons shooting 36%, 37%, and 38% on high volume from 3pt.  To say that because he doesn't attempt many per game he isn't a good shooter when the data shows the exact opposite is nonsense.  You aren't trying to have a serious discussion here.  Trae's numbers show that with more attempts he absolutely sustains his high %.  Citing FGM as some evidence that he isn't capable is just idiotic.  

2 hours ago, Nash said:

No he's not. Bogi's in the top 3 right after Markkanen and Klay with 2.7 FGM per game. Trae is not in top 200 with 0.8 fgm. He's even worse than Saddiq, Dre or DJM. 

Bogi FGM is 2.7 on 7.2 FGA for 37.6%

Trae FGM is 0.8 on 2.2 FGA for 38.7%

Saying he's not good at Catch and Shoot is a damn lie.  Saying he doesn't do it often is true, but he's a very good shooter.  

For his career he's 251-621 for 40.4%.  Saying that isn't a good shooter is, again, a damn lie.  

5 hours ago, Nash said:

Hawks didn't record 2 consecutive wins with a net rating of 44 points the entire season. Not even against  tanking teams, let alone PO contenders. Not when fully healthy and eager to play. The reason for it is Trae and DJM pairing. Neither can guard their positions. Neither can play without the ball. Neither is a good catch and shoot 3pt shooter. They just starve each other and we're mainly playing 4 on 5 with both on the floor. The only player on this team that can play 1, 2, 3 and is a good catch and shoot guy is Bogi (3rd in the league) but his minutes get cut from 35+ to 26min hurting his confidence. Bogi's more valuable on the floor than on the bench even on the nights when the shots are not falling in as the floor looks wide open and JJ and DJM have wide open driving lanes. Can't wait for the next 3 road games to see how this lineup looks on the road.

Trae is not a good catch and shoot guy? Really? That's....something. 

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

LOL!  We have fans that literally want to run off the guy who will likely eclipse Dominique Wilkins as the greatest Hawks player in the history of the team.  

It's sickening.  But it's also Atlanta.  We eat our own around here, sadly.  

With the caveat that I saw the Orlando game but missed last night, I would generally disagree with the thought that the refs don't like Trae. I think Trae has a reputation of hunting for fouls and working the refs to call them.

For some refs, that's fine. For others, I think their natural tendency is to develop a thick skin and call fewer fouls just being contrarian.  But yeah, it's pretty obvious some refs feel a certain kind of way about Trae.

With that said, my guess is this thread will turn into a bunch of criticisms against Trae, which imo, is unwarranted.  

13 minutes ago, Bonzaii58 said:

I missed most of this game but tuned in around mid 4th quarter. Somehow we didn’t challenge a questionable call

I guess my question is, were we at least competitive the entire game? 

Competitive in the sense that they never gave up and battled back from down 15 in the 2nd quarter. 

Ultimately it was two bad teams that each played poorly enough to keep the other in it. Then down the stretch the Raptors were the least sucky and won the game. 

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Thing is, since Bey is playing much better, wing is actually a strength. PF after JJ is a disaster. Center is a massive disaster. I would like to see an upgrade over Matthews but that's suppose to be Kobe role

I don't disagree at all. I just have little to no faith in the Hawks management 

Just now, NBASupes said:

They don't have a functional center. Clint is the washed wall. We need a damn center.

There's what, 7 centers in this draft? Hawks will draft a wing. Book it. LOL

These last 3 games have just been turrible. 

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Fixed 

He looks like a slower, less effective Bruno. His game has fallen off a cliff. 

I'm not sure that bald dude actually knows he's a ref. He just stands there looking stupid and then randomly Ts up dudes. 

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You're missing calls and giving ts to one team.  Smh 

What are you watching, t?

That is so not the story rn. 

Whine fest

Saw one of those national "eggsperts" correctly point out today that the Hawks only have 8 NBA players on their roster. 

Interestingly, they're playing their 56th game of the season tonight and the Hawks have had those 8 NBA players available for 15 games. They are 8-7 in those games. 

It's criminal having a 15 man roster and only 8 are considered NBA quality players. 

On 2/21/2024 at 7:11 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Oh, my eyes!!

 

 

What they don't tell you is like 50 of those 80 FGA are from his own misses.  SMH

39 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Was his decision INFLUENCED by LBJ? Most likely.

Smart leaders collect information and input from a variety of sources and then make the best decision based on those sources.  The sources aren't 'culpable' for the outcome of the decision.  The leader is.  Simple as that.  

5 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I think the concept of GM being 100% responsible no matter what anyone does is very easy to understand.  I do understand and still disagree.

To say that superstars can push front offices to make moves and do it without anyone ever having a right to be critical of those actions is where I have a problem.  You can say ultimately the GM don't have to agree to concede to any of their demands so it's ALWAYS on the GM.  I think there is still at least a sliver of accountability towards how superstars use their leverage with a franchise.  I don't actually think anything I've said is remotely controversial.  If they want to use their influence, there is some degree of accountability to how and when they do it. 

I can say that and still support Trae whole heartedly.  Without the Young's pushing the owners to spend and improve the team who knows what Tony would do.  But yes I do think they have accountability in any action they take.  They do help to shape our franchise, and they get it wrong sometimes.  

You can be critical all you want.  People are critical of others for things they don't control all the time.  It doesn't mean the criticism is valid.  But by all means, be critical if you want to.  Here's the problems with your argument:

1. You don't know IF Trae has used his influence to push the front office to do any thing (you assume so, but have no idea);

2. You still haven't connected the dots to show how a player with zero authority to make front office decisions is culpable (deserves blame) for front office decisions made by others;

3. What does accountability look like for Trae and his dad?  Are we going to fire Rayford from being dad of the superstar?  Do we fire Trae from having any opinions?  What exactly does "accountability" look like?  Are we really just talking about your right as a fan to criticize Trae?  Because that's done with or without culpability.  

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Haliburton would have been the perfect backcourt mate for Trae.  He's what they thought they were getting with Dejounte, and he would have been a better fit because he's much more of a willing spot up shooter than Dejounte.  

Who I wanted for sure.  Made a ton of sense too.