REHawksFan

Ahh....the blissful ignorance of a simpler time. A time before salary dumps, Holiday experiences, and roster construction nightmares. Looking back at this thread, I was so naive about what was to come. ECF contenders you say?....

I championed the "Start OO over Clint" campaign this past season. And it's clear Quin had other ideas and didn't feel the way I did. Looking back on it, I was probably something less than right on that issue. As of now, I'm not necessarily seeking to trade OO, but I'm certainly open to it if the deal arises. I just don't believe he's what Quin is looking for at the 5.

So highest drafted is 7th or 8th best player on team? No Bueno.

Honest question tho....is their ANY indication that Edey is even a consideration for the Hawks?

I'm thinking the "league handicappers" he references are basing their opinions on the fact that they believe the Hawks will stay under the tax line at all costs and they figure the best way forward is to trade away the biggest contract? It doesn't say that they believe the Hawks would rather trade Trae than Murray. Just that he's more likely to be moved. And it goes on to talk almost exclusively about the differences in contract and what they could get with $40M. IOW, it reads like a "Hawks are cheap so the logical move is to trade away the high priced player."

I don't have any issue with Brad so I thought it was fine. Tyler is just a fan of the Hawks. It's basically just 2 dudes talking about the Hawks roster and things that need to happen this offseason, in their opinion. Nothing earth shattering. If you are looking for any news or hard hitting journalism you are barking up the wrong tree with this. If you just want to hear two guys thoughts on how to make the Hawks better, it's fine.

To answer my own rhetorical question... SFs Starting Game 1 of 2024 Playoffs: Jason Tatum Caleb Martin Kelly Oubre OG Anunoby Aaron Nesmith Kris Middleton Franz Wagner Maxi Strus Brandon Ingram Lou Dort LeBron Michael Porter Brad Beal Jaden McDaniels / Kyle Anderson Derrick Jones Paul George How many of these guys would Hunter start over? 4? 5? It's not a lot. And Centers: Portzingus Bam Adebayo Embiid I. Hartenstein Miles Turner B. Lopez Paulo Banchero Jarod Allen Jones V. Chet AD Joker NUrkic Gobert Gafford Zubac How many would Clint start over? I can make an argument that Clint would only start over Gafford. Maybe? The point is, if we want to improve the Hawks, we HAVE to upgrade the roster. Hunter and Clint are fine off the bench, but they are no longer starters, imo. To answer your question, I said in another thread I like the BI and Daniels for DJM plus salary trade. That would solve the 3 issue. For Center, I'm not sure. It would be best through the draft if there was a player that was a sure thing, but since there's not, it would need to be through trade. Maybe we start OO but he hasn't proven to be healthy consistently. So I'm not clear on that one yet. But I'm pretty confident that I don't want to run it back with Clint starting.

Edey is faster than he looks. He's so big that he just covers a lot of ground when he moves. So even though he looks slow, he's still plenty fast enough to defend against these teams in college. I've already said I've seen enough from him to be willing to take a chance and draft him. Worst case scenario in my mind, we have a superb backup 5 that causes all sorts of problems in limited minutes off the bench. Best case scenario, we have a top end starting C for years to come. Given the weakness of the draft overall, I'm comfortable drafting Edey at 10 under either scenario. With all that said, I also believe we won't know for sure how he translates until he's actually in the NBA. We can look at the fastest teams in college all day long, but it still isn't the same as defending an elite NBA athlete. None of the teams in that video have 5 NBA players running up and down the floor. So the video is nice, but it doesn't really answer the question of whether he can stand up to NBA athletes.

POA defense is always a problem, but the biggest problem this year was the C position, imo. I'm just not bringing back Clint or Hinter to start. I'm fine with both off the bench, but starting is a no go. How many teams in the playoffs would either start for? Not many I'd imagine.

Starting Hunter and CC is a hard pass for me. I'm intrigued by Miles but you aren't doing anything to fix the biggest weakness from this year. Keep Hunter, but off the bench. Let CC go or come off the bench.

So are you starting: Trae Bogie Miles JJ CC? I still think we need to upgrade from Clint

I can't go into next year with Hunter and Vit as the primary sf on the roster. Gotta upgrade there. I like Vit a lot, but I'm not starting him off the jump. And Hunter starting is a no go for me.

I gotta admit, it's kind of staggering to see Dre rank: - 7th in WAR on the team - 7th in RAPTOR - 10th in PER - 11th in WS/48 - 10th in BPM - 13th in VORP I know he adds value that doesn't always show up in advance metrics, but yikes. Hard to imagine that he ranks so poorly on a lottery team that won 36 games and played numerous g leaguers throughout the season.

Just making stuff up now. Good grief.

This is going to sound insane and I'm fully aware of it, but hear me out.... The Hawks making a run to the ECF is the singular event that set off a chain reaction of bad decisions. Had the Hawks only made the 2nd round and then lost to Philly or had they lost to NYK, it is highly likely that they don't decide to level up on their rebuild timeline and start skipping steps. It is also at least possible that they don't hire Nate to be the full time HC and who knows who they bring in. But going as far as they did earlier than expected reset everyone's expectations. They hired Nate (an unequivocally average, old school coach), raised the expectations to build off the ECF run, and short cut a lot of the typical steps in the rebuild (like allowing time for internal growth). The next year they got bounced by Miami when they didn't have a 2nd ball handler so they did the reactionary thing and traded the future for DJ and here we are. The point is, I think the ECF run is the thing that started the FO down the road of changing directions. And it's highly likely that this decision didn't come with universal acceptance within the organization. So they start changing plans mid stream, hire more people with more voices, and it's chaotic and rudderless. Or so it seems. Create plan Start plan Continue plan Implement plan Complete plan Deviate from plan is not part of the process. But making the ECF in Year 3 of the plan was also not part of the process. So here we are.

This is EXACTLY what you are doing. At least you recognize it. OK. It's just all a little too convenient. You are essentially saying we should believe the unsourced negative stuff (and your personal opinion) but not believe any sourced positive stuff. Why not just admit YOU don't like him and want others to join you? At least that would be more intellectually honest than this charade of un-sourced articles and your view from the stands.

I think you see what you want to see. You sit in the stands and expect to see a malcontent and suddenly everything he does is looked at and viewed as negative. The truth is you don't know one way or the other whether his teammates love him or hate him. It's all just supposition. And it's done so in a definitive manner, which is what I take umbrage with. So to be clear, you are suggesting we should believe "unnamed sources" over guys that are actually on the record saying Trae is a good teammate? Do you not see how crazy that sounds? I know you'll just say that I won't believe anything but that's just not true. If JC or Huerter or Lou Williams or any of the current team guys came out and said Trae was a bad teammate or was a malcontent, I'd take that extremely seriously. But none of that has happened. Right now we have "unnamed sources" and your observations from sitting in the arena. We also have actual teammates saying the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are claiming. So which to believe?

That's just a deflection. The numbers are what they are. They don't lie. Reading your post and this quote comes to mind... "The fool is the one that sees the facts, knows the truth, but still believes the lies." An old Eagles song also comes to mind... "Ain't no way to hide your lyin eyes..."

Y'all just keep in mind that just like last year, we are talking about a sample size of 81 voters out of over 500 NBA players this year. And 6 (SIX!!) voted Trae as most overrated. It's not like the entire NBA is voting him most overrated. He got 6 votes which - just like last year - gets a giant shoulder shrug from me. The lack of respect in the all star voting is FAR more egregious, imo.

Aside from the complaining to the refs (which literally every star in the NBA does), all of the rest are 100% your opinion based on nothing. Give me a break. Unless you are with the team, there's is ZERO chance you know anything about Trae's attitude or his connectedness to the team.

Trae's too small. Trae's too slow. Trae's too weak. Trae's too blah blah blah. Not a mention about Brunson from the eggsperts. Brunson is what, 0.5" taller and has a wingspan that is 1.0" longer? Give me a break. If the Hawks put the right guys around Trae they can absolutely win a title with him.

Depends on who you ask. There are some here that think it's a lost cause and nothing will ever change until the ownership changes. There are others that think we are just a piece or two away from being really good. You asked if it's naïve to believe they WILL turn it around. I think it's perfectly logical and reasonable to believe they CAN turn it around. Will and Can are two totally different things, obviously. I'd say it's probably more naïve than reasonable to believe they WILL turn it around, but that's only because they haven't really taken the first step to turning it around - spend money. Until they do that, it's hard to believe they are committed to winning at the highest level. But, imo, it's perfectly reasonable to believe they CAN turn it around. I think I read that Ressler is like the 7th richest owner in the NBA. So it's not like they are hurting for money. They just need to commit to spending enough to get better. IMO, the ship has sailed on the internal development approach. So it's time to implement the spend till you have a title approach. Can they do that? Absolutely. Will they?

Distance Miles on Offense per NBA.com/stats: Trae is 2nd on the team at 1.40 miles per game on offense. And here is where that ranks in the entire NBA (26th out of 572 players): Trae has the same distance miles as Steph Curry on offense. The difference is he does most of his with the ball while Steph does most without. But some basic math shows the allocation like this: Trae on Offense: 3,250 feet per game WITH BALL / 4,140 feet per game WITHOUT BALL Steph on Offense: 2,200 feet per game WITH BALL / 5,190 feet per game WITHOUT BALL Bottom line: Claiming Trae does nothing but stand around on offense without the ball is patently false.

Truth. The thing I will never fathom is why folks that claim to be Hawks fans can clamor for guys that literally play the same way Trae does all the while bemoaning Trae. Just dumb.