REHawksFan

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Can't recall a season that we weren't saying these words or a paraphrase of that, of course. Right?

And but... I was fine, me... I was content for the journey here just like I've always been with regard to any other sport... until last off season. Our owner made vividly clear to me that there is a ceiling, and it will only be by sheer luck, not by his acquiescing to spending at any critical moment, that this franchise will ever finally get to even sniff the promised land of an NBA Finals. What some (not you, mac) apparently miss is that I didn't give up on my team... my owner effectively extinguished any flame of hope, and I'm not going to stand by and pretend I didn't understand how loudly his actions spoke. It's not about soldiering through down times, either. Had it come out last off-season that the team was going to outright tank, at least there would have been some subterfuge to keep me or anyone else from the knowledge of how Ressler really thinks about these things... and I would have stuck around like I always have. Indeed, if it ever became apparent that Jerry Jones was accepting of hamster status for his teams, that would have the effect just as this has had the effect of snuffing out any hope that my rational mind could muster.

So, sure, you can have significant changes... but to what end... what's the reason for expecting that you're not just going to get right back some day to playing a team like the Celtics six highly competitive games as we did last April, feeling like there was/will be reason to feel like we're on the cusp of something special, only to find that we're shaving talent from the roster, not expanding talent on the roster...? I don't see it. But the thread, again, is here to invite people to tell me what they see that I don't. Not to argue, but to legitimately listen to understand what they see that's going to keep them around. I mean, all I got from RE is effectively, "it doesn't matter, this is indeed like religion to me, and they can jerk me around how ever they want, I'm not budging." That's fine. As long as one recognizes that about themselves, that's his decision. It could never be mine. I'm here for hope. If you can't give me hope, I'm not going to care for as long as you can't give me hope. That's my decision. But I will be back if/when Ressler either exits or Ressler somehow signals a different mindset... and thus, if/when hope resurrects.

LOL

You are completely ridiculous.  Don't put words in my mouth in your quest to justify your own decisions. 

You apparently view your fandom as a transaction that exists only as long as it provides you with a return in the form of hope for success. I disagree with that viewpoint but I don't care that you hold it.

I am mildly intrigued by the notion that others hold the same transactional view.  I simply don't believe others think like that. At least not thise that would identify as fans of a team. Maybe others do though. Regardless, I answered your question honestly. I'd appreciate it if you refrained from mischaracterizing my viewpoint. 

58 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I wouldn't say it provides nothing but it's not like a sum gain against Murray. Maybe on defense because he's actually a SG/SF unlike Murray but Murray gives us a high end backup PG too. Without Murray, we need a backup PG better than Forrest 

Still have Jalen who can handle the ball. And I think Kobe can be the backup pg.

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nicolas Claxton worth around $20 million in free agency?

Michael Scotto: Through my conversations with executives regarding Nicolas Claxton’s next salary, I’d say he remains around that $20 million figure annually. I think $25 million would be his ceiling as of now.

 

– via HoopsHype

 

Dennis Smith Jr seeking multi-year free-agent deal

Michael Scotto: I spoke to Dennis Smith Jr. He told me he wants to secure a multi-year deal. He said, “I believe I should be able to get that this summer, but we’ll see. You never know with the NBA, but I’m hoping this is the year I can secure that.”

 

– via HoopsHype

 

Extensions unlikely for Mikal Bridges and Cam Thomas?

Michael Scotto: As of today, I don’t see Cam Thomas and the Nets agreeing to a contract extension, but it’s a situation I’ll certainly monitor all summer. I think Mikal Bridges will wait as well. Brian Lewis: Yeah, I’d put that at less than 50 percent.

 

– via HoopsHype

Do the Hawks have any ability to sign FAs? I'm assuming with their cap they can't sign anyone. Is that correct? 

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Name the last time you saw a good GM make a public statement like this.  I don't think I've seen it three times in my life.  It is obviously a terrible idea and signals that you probably don't know how deals get made and how leverage works.  It is the same reason that teams plant rumors in the press all the time about players they want, during the draft, etc.  Everyone in the league has eyes but what is said in the press actually influences how deals come together, when players gets drafted, etc.  It doesn't affect every GM every time but there is an obvious reasons teams keep doing this.  It is why we see rumors of DJM and Trae wanting out of Atlanta, etc.  True or not, those rumors hurt our leverage.  And our GM doing this was a self-inflicted wound and actually hurts more than a random stupid rumor because our GM of all people is on camera saying it.

Like I said, I don't disagree with you (unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying).  I'm just saying I don't think Landry coming out and claiming that the two guys can work together will fool anyone.  At least not to the point where it would outweigh a bidding war with multiple teams.  

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

One thing that is not helpful to getting good value in a trade is publicly admitting that your best players aren't working together.  Just food for thought for Landry as he thinks about how to get teams to give good value in return.  You at least need the other team thinking your players are great.

I agree with you in principle, but it sure seems like that ship has sailed.  Everyone around the league knows it doesn't work.  They have eyes just like the rest of us.  I think the best we can all hope for is that the Hawks FO can convince teams that there are multiple teams interested in them and maybe that they are crazy enough to run it back if they don't get offers they like, although I'm not sure anyone would believe them.  

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That could have been true, the malcontent part is massively false

Yeah....there's a MASSIVE difference between wanting to be traded and being a malcontent.  Massive difference. 

11 hours ago, sturt said:

(... ie, having invested whatever time and attention and passion you did, versus none over here on my side of the internet). Just genuinely curious. Should I have regrets?

As always, I'd rather be me than you.  

I'd rather loved and lost than never loved at all.  I don't consider my time invested as being wasted just because the team wasn't a success.  I can't imagine a more hollow way to go about being a fan.  Of course, I also can't imagine walking away from a team I've loved since childhood, whether I agree or disagree with the organization. 

I was born in Atlanta and raised as a fan of all Atlanta sports.  What made the 60 win Hawks so much fun and then later the ECF Hawks so much fun was the experience of suffering through all the heartache and disappointment of bad ownership, terrible GMs, poor decisions, and just underachieving teams for years on end.  

I was born and bred a Georgia Bulldog.  I suffered through 40 years of nothing (ranging from down right terrible to close but never enough) and then finally got to see my school win a title.  And then another.  The heartache makes the payoff so much better. 

So again, I have no interest in being a person that walks away from a team I love during the bad times. Which means clearly I'd rather be me than you.  

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

That would be very welcome.

Would also be the most Hawks thing ever....

Winning the lottery in the weakest top of the draft in 20 years.  LOL

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Doubt it.

Front office will correctly cite that we were missing JJ, OO, and Bey.

But the roster is still flawed because we're too small on the frontline, and we don't have enough athletes on this team.

Also, you have to highly question Quin Snyder as a coach.   He made no adjustments whatsoever to try to slow down Coby White.

I think we gotta come to terms with the fact that ya boy Bruno ain't good enough for regular rotation minutes. 

Also, with who we had available, what is your answer to White? We don't have one. We desperately need an upgrade in the frontcourt. Desperately. 

Just now, terrell said:

But I wouldn't be upset either..

3 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

i'd be shocked if trae is on the team next yr... no heart

That's a pretty stupid statement. 

Welp. F it. I guess our summer starts early. This sucks. I hate injuries. I hate roster construction. I hate Colby White.

That was stupid. And then no one gets back.

I swear this team would be so much better if they just played smart and gave effort 100% of the time instead of doing stupid shit all the time. 

Trae keeps feedin Dre. 

Dre keeps brickin

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

I guess Stephen A. Smith was lying too when he repeated what I said earlier:  "the Hawks came back with Trae on the bench."

Well that's a factual statement. Trae play like shit in the 1st. Played better in the 2nd. 

Steven A also said he expects more from Trae because he knows how good he is. Unlike a lot of our "fans".

As Richard Jefferson said, "The Hawks are going to need Trae's playmaking and scoring if they are going to win."

1 minute ago, deester11 said:

Everyone else is doing great besides Trae . Lmao 

Literally doesn't matter what else happens in the game. All Traes fault to these yahoos.

And what kind of lineup is 

Trae

Bogi

Mo

Bruno

Garrison

That just screams we want the lottery

SMH

Just pathetic.

18 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I truly believe we're going to be up double digits all of the 2nd half.

Need to withstand the early energy. As always, Hawks gotta hit their open shots. 

5 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

I don’t think BI has played at all in the 4th of this play-in game. Zion is out hurt too and BI is still riding the bench. Yikes. 

Certainly seems like BI is on the outs

7 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

https://giphy.com/gifs/mtv-captain-america-chris-evans-gif-10JhviFuU2gWD6

Umm......no.

I screwed it up Jay, but I was trying to post this .gif. Sigh

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Think the NBA will allow the Kings to beat the Warriors tonight

https://giphy.com/gifs/mtv-captain-america-chris-evans-gif-10JhviFuU2gWD6

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Think the NBA will allow the Kings to beat the Warriors tonight?

Umm......no.

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Omfg, I can't believe I walked into that.  Smh 

Just imagine if Memphis or Toronto convince the Hawks they gonna take him at 7 or 8. Woo boy. We goin tradin baby!!  LOL

42 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I didn't see the official announcement. Is JJ out for the season or just a couple of weeks? Curious if he could be back for the actual playoffs or if he's officially done. 

I've mentioned pace and its impact on the Hawks in other posts but I've never seen a topic specifically addressing this, so I figured I'd start one on the day before the potential last day of the season.  Now that the regular season has concluded, I looked at the league wide data to see what the trends were regarding pace.  See chart below.  

For your viewing pleasure, I've color coded the chart, breaking the NBA into 3 tiers - Top 10 Pace (green means go), Bottom 10 pace (red is for slow), and the Middle 10 pace.  At the bottom are the averages.  The Top 10 teams are all at Pace: 100+ level while the bottom 10 are all Pace: <98.  The Middle 10 are basically Pace: 98-100 with Bos and LAC the exceptions at 97.98 and 97.93. Interestingly, the Top 10 has 6 Playoff / Playin teams, the Middle 10 has 7, and the Bottom 10 has 7.  So it seems pretty evenly dispersed.  However...

Wins: 

• Top10: 36.8
• Mid10: 44.5
• Bot10: 41.7 

Rating:

• Top10:  ORtg: 114.8 / DRtg: 116.4 / NetRtg: -1.6
• Mid10: ORtg: 115.5 / DRtg: 113.7 / NetRtg: +1.8
• Bot10: ORtg: 113.3 / DRtg: 113.4 / NetRtg: -0.1

So league wide, there seems to be a sweet spot in pace that is between 98 and 99 possessions per 48 minutes.  That's where teams have the best success offensively and defensively.  But what about the Hawks?  Well...

The Hawks went 36-46 this year.  They suffered numerous injuries, played with countless lineups, and featured some 6-8 G-League level players in their normal rotations throughout the year.  And yet, there's still some Pace Trend data that seems somewhat insightful (to me anyway). 

The Hawks average pace this year was 100.84 which ranked 6th in the NBA as shown above.  I have often asserted that the Hawks are at their best when they slow down and play with less pace.  I think it helps them be more efficient offensively and play better defense.  Simply put, my contention is that the Hawks playing fast is generally a disaster in terms of TOs and poor defense.  But I haven't ever studied it to see if that assertion was correct.  So here goes:  I looked at the 82 game schedule to see what, if any, trends emerged around their pace of play.  I sorted the entire season by Pace and then looked at win/loss record, ORtg, DRtg, TS%, AST%, and REB%. 

I separated the season into 3 main categories by Pace:  Pace: 100+, Pace: 98-99, and Pace: 98 or less.  Then, I also considered one subcategory which is explained below.  The chart below summarizes what I found.  

As shown above, the Hawks went 18-22 with a -3.5 Net Rating in 40 games where they played at a pace of 100 or greater.  This accounts for 50% of their wins and nearly 50% of their games.  Interestingly, of the 18 wins, only 3 were against playoff teams and another 3 against playin teams.  So 6 of 18 wins in this group are quality teams. 

In the Middle Pace group, the Hawks only played 10 games with a pace between 98 and 100.  They went 2-8 with a net rating of -6.9.  Ugly.  Not much else to say. The offense dipped while the defense got worse.  The competition was tough, however, as 7 of the 10 games were against playoff / playin teams.  

Finally, in the Bottom Pace tier (Pace: Less than 98), the Hawks played 32 games and went 16-16 with a Net Rating of +1.2.  This was BY FAR their best showing and is all the more impressive when you consider that 23 of the 32 games are against playoff / playin teams.  

So, in general, the Hawks do better when they play slower.  But you may notice the light blue line above.  I noticed in the data that the Hawks do particularly well when they play at Pace: 95 or less.  In fact, they played 19 such games all season (nearly 25% of the season) and went a remarkable 12-7 with a net rating of +5.3.  Their offensive rating would rank Top 5 in the NBA while their DRating would be Top 15.  Simply put, this was their absolute BEST play of the year, despite injuries and roster issues.  And more amazingly, of the 12 wins, 10 (TEN!!) came against playoff or playin teams. And before anyone asks, yes, Trae played in several of these 19 games.   

The last thing I'll say is this. I mentioned that I also looked at TS%, TO%, REB%, and AST% at various pace levels. The chart for that is below.  It doesn't show a huge difference between pace levels for most of these stats.  

Final Final thing I'll say....I'm not suggesting the Hawks commit to playing at a slow, less than 95 pace every game.  It's more that I think slowing down in general will cover up a lot of their defensive issues (which are exacerbated by playing ultra fast) and will likely lead to better offensive opportunities.  I think we see this in the League-Wide data and in the Hawks specific data.  As with everything, there's probably a happy middle ground they need to find which is not too slow and not too fast, but I tend to the believe that are is going to be much less than 100 poss / 48 minutes.  

Anyone else have thoughts on Pace and the Hawks?