REHawksFan

Along these same lines, I put this chart together the other day after I saw a comment from @JayBirdHawk questioning the roster construction since the ECF run.  I decided not to post it as after I made it I couldn't find the comment again (wasn't sure which thread it was in).  Anyway, feel free to delete if it doesn't fit with your thread.  

So this chart shows the Top 15 Hawks players in Minutes Played and their respective PER.  It shows each year starting with the ECF run.  My idea was to chart the players in and out each year to see if the caliber of overall roster was improving or declining with the team transactions. I assumed it was declining but wanted to see it for myself.  Instead, the chart sort of took on a life of its own. 

The color codes show red as "Below Avg" play (League average PER is 15), the yellow is "Above Average (PER between 15 and 20), and the green is the upper tier in the league which is above 20.  The 20 benchmark was more of a feel on my part as the data suggests it reflects anywhere from 85th to 92nd percentile depending on the year.   I did the same chart with WAR, PIE, WS, etc... but they all show the same general trends so I'll just post this one. 

The next to the bottom set of rows shows the total minutes in each category and the weighted average PER for those minutes. The bottom set of rows shows what % of the total minutes played is reflected in each category.  

I think there are several instructive things shown here.  

1. Trae and Clint are the top 2 players in PER every year which only underscores @NBASupes often mentioned opinion that the 5 is the biggest / most important position for Trae.  Their success goes hand in hand. 
2. In the ECF year, the top 5 players by PER were in the top 7 of minutes played.  Playing your best players the most minutes is a good strategy.  
3. The ratings for several players seem to decline each year.  
4. Solo - I miss the perceived benefit of Solo minutes
5. The Green level of play goes from 22.7 to 23.7 to 22.0 to 20.5 this year. That means that this year, the top level players (again Trae and Clint) were just barely at the upper level.  We basically had 5 above average players and 10 below avg players
6. It's interesting to track the "Core" and then the "Others" each year.  I forgot some of the "Others" were ever on the Hawks.  LOL
7. We go from 7 above avg / upper level players in ECF run to 5 the following year (excl Dieng) to 5 the next year to 6 this year but the PER ratings drop each year.  

I know there's not 1 stat the fully captures the complete impact of a player.  I know DH has value to the Hawks above the "Below Average" rating shown in the chart.  The question is how much?  Anyway, I thought this might be an interesting way to look at the year over year trend for the Hawks in terms of roster construction.  

Also, for reference, here is the same chart for Boston this year just to show their player profile.  Hint: there's a lot of yellow and green at the top. 

9 hours ago, sturt said:

Genuinely didn't mean to.

So, I'm fascinated. Educate me... what part of...

... is inaccurately summed up as...

...?

And let's just say I was waaaaay out in left field, regardless.

To my mind, the independent reader of those words probably is intelligent to recognize that when one says "all I got from that comment was yada yada yada," it's that person's interpretation of what he read, and saliently, not necessarily how the person him/herself might sum up the thoughts written.

 

But hey. You wanna really see someone put words in someone else's mouth? Try this:

In context, this was asserting that point about me. And it's utter nonsense, RE. There is ignorance (by the dictionary use of the term) in characterizing me this way because it's bass-ackwards. I believed the team going into last off-season was on the verge of success given my confidence in the new coach and how I'd seen them take the fight to the Celtics in 6 games.

You own that. But did I bother to slap you around about it? Hell nah, just now bringing it up, given this framing of my remarks as putting words in your mouth. Didn't matter that much to me. You seemed to feel a need to let off some steam, and my reply to you was anything but oppositional.

 

I haven't done the poll to know.

But I'll sleep better tonight knowing RE doesn't care that I hold it. I mean, it already came through without you having to say it, but thanks for that reassurance. You're the best.

More objectively and sans snark... we share the perspective that more people are like you than are like me in that respect. And/but since it's not a matter of popularity, but logic, I'm quite content with my economic view of sports as a consumer entertainment option. I make choices. And one of those choices is to use sports for my pleasure, for my recreation.

Make no mistake, this hasn't always been my paradigm. I've been where you are for most of my life, I promise, RE. It's no fun to feel powerless, to sublet my mood/attitude to how my sports interests are succeeding or not. To be clear, though, you also presumed too much when you said...

... because when you adopt the economic paradigm, one of the freeing things is that there's no one to answer to. To be fair to you, yes, I know you probably took that away from my question "Should I have regrets," but what's missing in your analysis is that I only chose to frame the question that way as a way of prompting people to help me understand what's undergirding any remaining ambition for this franchise under this owner. You took it, evidently, as self-doubt, when it was rather just a choice of words chosen to compel others to think out loud so I could see their thinking.

 

So... these words...

... were mine before you wrote them. I just didn't get upset enough to say them.

I'm bored now. None of this matters to me. Won't be replying to whatever you write in response, so feel free to take advantage of that fact to whatever degree you'd like.

 

Read the first few paragraphs. Not reading anymore of your nonsense. Have a nice day. 

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Can't recall a season that we weren't saying these words or a paraphrase of that, of course. Right?

And but... I was fine, me... I was content for the journey here just like I've always been with regard to any other sport... until last off season. Our owner made vividly clear to me that there is a ceiling, and it will only be by sheer luck, not by his acquiescing to spending at any critical moment, that this franchise will ever finally get to even sniff the promised land of an NBA Finals. What some (not you, mac) apparently miss is that I didn't give up on my team... my owner effectively extinguished any flame of hope, and I'm not going to stand by and pretend I didn't understand how loudly his actions spoke. It's not about soldiering through down times, either. Had it come out last off-season that the team was going to outright tank, at least there would have been some subterfuge to keep me or anyone else from the knowledge of how Ressler really thinks about these things... and I would have stuck around like I always have. Indeed, if it ever became apparent that Jerry Jones was accepting of hamster status for his teams, that would have the effect just as this has had the effect of snuffing out any hope that my rational mind could muster.

So, sure, you can have significant changes... but to what end... what's the reason for expecting that you're not just going to get right back some day to playing a team like the Celtics six highly competitive games as we did last April, feeling like there was/will be reason to feel like we're on the cusp of something special, only to find that we're shaving talent from the roster, not expanding talent on the roster...? I don't see it. But the thread, again, is here to invite people to tell me what they see that I don't. Not to argue, but to legitimately listen to understand what they see that's going to keep them around. I mean, all I got from RE is effectively, "it doesn't matter, this is indeed like religion to me, and they can jerk me around how ever they want, I'm not budging." That's fine. As long as one recognizes that about themselves, that's his decision. It could never be mine. I'm here for hope. If you can't give me hope, I'm not going to care for as long as you can't give me hope. That's my decision. But I will be back if/when Ressler either exits or Ressler somehow signals a different mindset... and thus, if/when hope resurrects.

LOL

You are completely ridiculous.  Don't put words in my mouth in your quest to justify your own decisions. 

You apparently view your fandom as a transaction that exists only as long as it provides you with a return in the form of hope for success. I disagree with that viewpoint but I don't care that you hold it.

I am mildly intrigued by the notion that others hold the same transactional view.  I simply don't believe others think like that. At least not thise that would identify as fans of a team. Maybe others do though. Regardless, I answered your question honestly. I'd appreciate it if you refrained from mischaracterizing my viewpoint. 

58 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I wouldn't say it provides nothing but it's not like a sum gain against Murray. Maybe on defense because he's actually a SG/SF unlike Murray but Murray gives us a high end backup PG too. Without Murray, we need a backup PG better than Forrest 

Still have Jalen who can handle the ball. And I think Kobe can be the backup pg.

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nicolas Claxton worth around $20 million in free agency?

Michael Scotto: Through my conversations with executives regarding Nicolas Claxton’s next salary, I’d say he remains around that $20 million figure annually. I think $25 million would be his ceiling as of now.

 

– via HoopsHype

 

Dennis Smith Jr seeking multi-year free-agent deal

Michael Scotto: I spoke to Dennis Smith Jr. He told me he wants to secure a multi-year deal. He said, “I believe I should be able to get that this summer, but we’ll see. You never know with the NBA, but I’m hoping this is the year I can secure that.”

 

– via HoopsHype

 

Extensions unlikely for Mikal Bridges and Cam Thomas?

Michael Scotto: As of today, I don’t see Cam Thomas and the Nets agreeing to a contract extension, but it’s a situation I’ll certainly monitor all summer. I think Mikal Bridges will wait as well. Brian Lewis: Yeah, I’d put that at less than 50 percent.

 

– via HoopsHype

Do the Hawks have any ability to sign FAs? I'm assuming with their cap they can't sign anyone. Is that correct? 

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Name the last time you saw a good GM make a public statement like this.  I don't think I've seen it three times in my life.  It is obviously a terrible idea and signals that you probably don't know how deals get made and how leverage works.  It is the same reason that teams plant rumors in the press all the time about players they want, during the draft, etc.  Everyone in the league has eyes but what is said in the press actually influences how deals come together, when players gets drafted, etc.  It doesn't affect every GM every time but there is an obvious reasons teams keep doing this.  It is why we see rumors of DJM and Trae wanting out of Atlanta, etc.  True or not, those rumors hurt our leverage.  And our GM doing this was a self-inflicted wound and actually hurts more than a random stupid rumor because our GM of all people is on camera saying it.

Like I said, I don't disagree with you (unless I'm misunderstanding what you are saying).  I'm just saying I don't think Landry coming out and claiming that the two guys can work together will fool anyone.  At least not to the point where it would outweigh a bidding war with multiple teams.  

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

One thing that is not helpful to getting good value in a trade is publicly admitting that your best players aren't working together.  Just food for thought for Landry as he thinks about how to get teams to give good value in return.  You at least need the other team thinking your players are great.

I agree with you in principle, but it sure seems like that ship has sailed.  Everyone around the league knows it doesn't work.  They have eyes just like the rest of us.  I think the best we can all hope for is that the Hawks FO can convince teams that there are multiple teams interested in them and maybe that they are crazy enough to run it back if they don't get offers they like, although I'm not sure anyone would believe them.  

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

That could have been true, the malcontent part is massively false

Yeah....there's a MASSIVE difference between wanting to be traded and being a malcontent.  Massive difference. 

11 hours ago, sturt said:

(... ie, having invested whatever time and attention and passion you did, versus none over here on my side of the internet). Just genuinely curious. Should I have regrets?

As always, I'd rather be me than you.  

I'd rather loved and lost than never loved at all.  I don't consider my time invested as being wasted just because the team wasn't a success.  I can't imagine a more hollow way to go about being a fan.  Of course, I also can't imagine walking away from a team I've loved since childhood, whether I agree or disagree with the organization. 

I was born in Atlanta and raised as a fan of all Atlanta sports.  What made the 60 win Hawks so much fun and then later the ECF Hawks so much fun was the experience of suffering through all the heartache and disappointment of bad ownership, terrible GMs, poor decisions, and just underachieving teams for years on end.  

I was born and bred a Georgia Bulldog.  I suffered through 40 years of nothing (ranging from down right terrible to close but never enough) and then finally got to see my school win a title.  And then another.  The heartache makes the payoff so much better. 

So again, I have no interest in being a person that walks away from a team I love during the bad times. Which means clearly I'd rather be me than you.  

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

That would be very welcome.

Would also be the most Hawks thing ever....

Winning the lottery in the weakest top of the draft in 20 years.  LOL

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Doubt it.

Front office will correctly cite that we were missing JJ, OO, and Bey.

But the roster is still flawed because we're too small on the frontline, and we don't have enough athletes on this team.

Also, you have to highly question Quin Snyder as a coach.   He made no adjustments whatsoever to try to slow down Coby White.

I think we gotta come to terms with the fact that ya boy Bruno ain't good enough for regular rotation minutes. 

Also, with who we had available, what is your answer to White? We don't have one. We desperately need an upgrade in the frontcourt. Desperately. 

Just now, terrell said:

But I wouldn't be upset either..

3 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

i'd be shocked if trae is on the team next yr... no heart

That's a pretty stupid statement. 

Welp. F it. I guess our summer starts early. This sucks. I hate injuries. I hate roster construction. I hate Colby White.

That was stupid. And then no one gets back.

I swear this team would be so much better if they just played smart and gave effort 100% of the time instead of doing stupid shit all the time. 

Trae keeps feedin Dre. 

Dre keeps brickin

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

I guess Stephen A. Smith was lying too when he repeated what I said earlier:  "the Hawks came back with Trae on the bench."

Well that's a factual statement. Trae play like shit in the 1st. Played better in the 2nd. 

Steven A also said he expects more from Trae because he knows how good he is. Unlike a lot of our "fans".

As Richard Jefferson said, "The Hawks are going to need Trae's playmaking and scoring if they are going to win."

1 minute ago, deester11 said:

Everyone else is doing great besides Trae . Lmao 

Literally doesn't matter what else happens in the game. All Traes fault to these yahoos.

And what kind of lineup is 

Trae

Bogi

Mo

Bruno

Garrison

That just screams we want the lottery

SMH

Just pathetic.

18 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I truly believe we're going to be up double digits all of the 2nd half.

Need to withstand the early energy. As always, Hawks gotta hit their open shots. 

5 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

I don’t think BI has played at all in the 4th of this play-in game. Zion is out hurt too and BI is still riding the bench. Yikes. 

Certainly seems like BI is on the outs

7 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

https://giphy.com/gifs/mtv-captain-america-chris-evans-gif-10JhviFuU2gWD6

Umm......no.

I screwed it up Jay, but I was trying to post this .gif. Sigh

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Think the NBA will allow the Kings to beat the Warriors tonight

https://giphy.com/gifs/mtv-captain-america-chris-evans-gif-10JhviFuU2gWD6

5 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Think the NBA will allow the Kings to beat the Warriors tonight?

Umm......no.

9 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Omfg, I can't believe I walked into that.  Smh 

Just imagine if Memphis or Toronto convince the Hawks they gonna take him at 7 or 8. Woo boy. We goin tradin baby!!  LOL

42 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

I didn't see the official announcement. Is JJ out for the season or just a couple of weeks? Curious if he could be back for the actual playoffs or if he's officially done.