REHawksFan

I think I'm with you. It's theater of the absurd all of a sudden.

This ain't that complicated to me. You do the same plan as you were going to do with the 10 pick only now you get a better player to do it with. You were never going to significantly alter the team in 25 through the draft. So do the trades and use the tpe amd add the No 1 now for exactly what No 10 was supposed to be....depth. Draft Sarr and start him in CP or start him on the bench. But you still gotta make trades and change the roster. How the heck does a gift like winning the lotto result in a drastic paradigm shift like tanking? Craziness

The characterization that Sarr has no offensive game seems extraordinarily off base. He's raw but he's shown he has a handle, has a jump shot, and can score at the rim. And with his elite defensive ability, he absolutely has No. 1 potential.

Do you have intel that the Hawks would only look at Sarr at the 5? Why can't he be a 3 or a backup and we address the 5 in another way?

@NBASupes I'm asking this honestly and not trying to pick a fight, but in the Edey thread, you literally said Edey and Sarr are the only 2 guys who you can see being an MVP in this class. So why the extreme stance against him now? You went from saying he could be an MVP to saying he's definitely going to bust.

I can see the logic in both players and won't be upset with either. But for me, when there's no CLEAR CUT best player, you take the player with the biggest upside and try to develop him into the star you need. So that's Sarr, imo.

So are you saying the only way Atl trades DJ and OO is if they get back BI, Daniels, 21 AND LA's 2025 1st?

I missed that the team that trades a player to us would get a TPE so that makes a little more sense. I also agree that teams in financial hell are more likely to be willing to trade a useful player for not much in return. In the J Allen for Hunter example, how does that use the TPE? They have essentially the same salary. Is it just doing two separate transactions? The first is Allen into the JC TPE and then we separately trade Hunter into the newly created Allen TPE? If so, what's the point? Why not just trade player for player?

This has always been my question. How exactly do we get another team to send us a $20M player that is worth having? We still need to send them something. And we don't have picks. So what?

Of course you take more. That wasn't the question. The question is how much more and what is a reasonable allocation? I think you are taking it to the extreme. How many multilevel scorers in the NBA actually take 50% or more 3s? There's maybe 1 or 2. Most are taking 35-40% 3s. And there's plenty of players that have made a career of mastering the midrange shot. BI shooting 47% on high volume over five seasons is pretty good. I think he needs to cut back on the volume, but I don't see a problem with him taking some. I would think something like 40% / 25% / 35% is fine for the offense.

Wait, so now the issue is not the lack of 3s but the lack of shots at the rim? What is the ideal shot profile you want from your wing? Do you want all shots at the rim or at the 3pt line? Are any midrange shots from a guy who's shot 47% over the last 5 years acceptable? In the 19-20 season, when he had quality pg play, his shot profile was 37.6% within 10 feet, 27.4% in the midrange, and 35.0% from 3pt. That doesn't seem crazy to me. It's gotten more and more out of whack over the last few years, but I don't see how it won't improve playing with Trae and being coached by Q. I just don't see the duplication that you see between BI and Trae or BI and Murray. I do see the high cost though. If we knew BI would extend at something between $35M - $40M per year, I would be fine with it. We should be addressing the defensive needs with players that get included in the trade, either Herb or Daniels.

I guess I should have used the sarcasm font.

So he's just talking about teams with small guards in general. Not about the Hawks. Got it. By the way, how big is Trae again?

I know you keep saying it, but I just don't believe you. There's zero reason to believe he won't change his shot selection if he came to Atlanta. I get you don't like him, but your argument isn't even logical. DJM had an even more skewed shot profile before coming to Atlanta and Quin turned him around. Same will happen with BI if he came here. The real argument against him is one based on his value vs his salary expectations. THAT'S the reason we shouldn't trade for him. Not some bogus narrative that he'll refuse to take 3s.

My biggest contention with BI is the potential contract and I think his reputation is bigger than reality. But I fully admit he's a really good player. Only 10 players under the age of 27 in the NBA this year Avg. 20+ pts / 5+ ast / 5+ reb and BI is 1 of those 10. He's a really good player. But I don't really want to pay the Max for him and that seems to be what he wants. Maybe it won't matter if no one gives it to him, but I could see him coming, playing a year, and then walking if the Hawks won't pay him. Or the Hawks DO pay him and they have 90M tied up in 2 players.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for BI on the Hawks for the reasons I spelled out in my original response. With that said, I'm interested in the bold above because I don't really view BI and DJM as the same player, as it appears you do. In SA, DJM was Top 5 in touches per game, Top 10 in Time of Possession, and Top 20 in Dribbles per Touch. You paired him with Trae who was already Top 5 in all those categories. And for the most part, both players have remained very highly ranked in these categories (top 5% of the NBA), even if DJ's raw numbers have dropped off some. You took a ball dominant PG and paired him with a ball dominant PG and well, it didn't work. But BI isn't ball dominant in the same way as DJM He doesn't play the same position and doesn't require the ball nearly as much as DJM. This year, he ranks 47th in touches per game, 46th in TOP, and around 140th in dribbles per touch. And that's without having a dominant PG to play with. So I don't really see the "your turn, my turn" issue with BI and Trae. Seems like they would work well together on offense.

Just to expound on the PG issue with BI... In the 19-20 season, BI avg 6.1 3pt fga and shot 39.1%. He had Lonzo Ball and Jrue Holiday as his PGs. He was assisted on 135 jump shots. In the 23-24 season, BI avg 3.8 3pt fga and shot 37%. He had CJ McCollum as his main PG. He was assisted on 75 jump shots. That's 60 fewer assisted makes on jumpers this year compared to when he had Ball and Holiday as his PGs. If you look at pullup off the dribble vs c/s jumpers: 19-20 with 2 pgs: 423 c/s and 199 off dribble 23-24 with 0 pgs: 155 c/s and 305 off dribble You can't ignore the lack of PG for NO the last few seasons.

He avg 6+ 3pt attempts per game with Lonzo Ball as the pg. And then Lonzo wasn't the pg and he fell off a cliff. In the years where he took a lot, he also led the team in c/s 3pt attempts one year and was 2nd the other year. That tells me he'll take them when he's set up to take them. If he's dribbling on his own and has to create, he's more apt to dribble into the mid range and take the tougher shot. I don't see why playing with Trae wouldn't create a ton of opportunities for him to take c/s 3s. He's probably not ever going to eliminate the mid range, but there's no reason to think he can't change the shot allocation drastically.

I'm not sure I agree with this and not sure it's a fair criticism. Pre Quin DJM Shot Type: 6.3% 3pt 17.4% 20.4% 16.8% Post Quin DJM Shot Type: 30.0% 3pt 37.7% Brandon Ingram Shot Type: 13.8% 3pt 12.9% 35.1% 34.1% 22.3% 19.5% 22.9% In four of the seven seasons, Ingram shot more 3s than DJM ever did prior to being coached by Quin. To say that DJ shoots more as a matter of fact is not exactly fair, imo. I think IF BI is coachable as DJ is, he'll also get up a higher % of 3s just like DJ did under Q. And we at least have proof of concept with BI that he can do it and still shoot a high % as his highest 3pt % is in the two years that he attempted the most. I'm down on BI because I think his pay has outpaced his performance and the perception of BI in general is greater than the reality. But I don't think saying he won't shoot 3s like Murray is a fair criticism.

They went from: Elfrid Payton and a washed up Derrick Rose to Jalen Brunson RJ Barrett to Donte DiVincenzo Reggie Bullock to Josh Hart and OG Anunoby Nerlens Noel to Isaiah Hartenstein We turned John Collins into an empty chair and Gallo into Mo Gueye?

When results confirm bias it's easiest to ignore causation as it risks messing up the convenient narrative.

Minny is so fun to watch. Like rabid dawgs attacking the ball handler. And they did that without Rudy to back them up in the middle. Dang impressive.

Absolutely. 40% of the Hawks starters in the ECF were literally given away FOR NOTHING. And it's not like those starters were weak links. They averaged 25 pts / 3.7 ast / 12.5 reb per game in the playoffs. Given away.

Here's what the Knicks did since 21: Pos: WS / PER / VORP PG: 1.0 / 11.7 / -0.4 to 11.2 / 23.4 / 5.4 SG: 4.1 / 13.4 / 0.5 to 6.6 / 16.0 / 3.2 SF: 4.6 / 11.1 / 0.9 to 5.7 / 11.8 / 1.4 PF: 7.8 / 19.7 / 3.9 to 2.6 / 13.0 / 0.5 C : 5.2 / 14.8 / 1.3 to 8.1 / 18.9 / 13.1 That's improvement at basically every staring position. By a significant margin. The Hawks, by contrast, have declined at every starting position except SG, which is only marginally better.

I hate the Knicks. I hate their fans and their organization. But looking back at the 2021 series and the paths the two organizations took between then and now and I just shake my head. One team went out and strategically added pieces and reshaped their roster to be pretty dang good. And the other replaced legit NBA players with marginal NBA players and then added an allstar that doesn't fit. SMH