Packfill

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's as I said the other day, any other near-playoff team gets to add the #1 pick and we all assume they vault themselves the next year

Why can't that be us? 

I think that while Sarr has big upside, he is a developmental prospect who is not yet fully formed (we are not talking about Tim Duncan, a ready made contributor day one), so I would expect him to struggle with contributing to winning during his rookie season.  I think Sarr may be great and may help the Hawks make a leap, but if he does I expect that to be in year two or three, not his rookie year (and that would be true no matter which team he were joining).

I do think a guy like Clingan is more ready to contribute to winning day one then Sarr.  But if the focus is on upside and long term impact next season is of less importance - you just want to see signs that he is moving in the right direction.  

15 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

Come on, Pelicans… just send us Herb Jones.  Let’s work with each other here.  
 
Billy Knight would be drooling over a lineup that surrounds Trae with JJ - Jones - Sarr - OO.  Positionless… focus on roles.

 

 

I like the idea behind that line-up but next season that is not nearly enough shooting (in terms of ability to shoot the 3 or volume) around Trae.  OO and Sarr are in the infancy of their ability to shoot with accuracy and range so the team would take is lumps next season - which may be okay if you are looking long term.  

I do wonder if having to factor in the salary of the #1 pick has given them agita about how to make the cap economics work.  I hope not, but I am also prepared to see some salary jettisoning deals.  Could just be something minor like not offering the qualifying offer to Bey.

I still support moving Murray for a better roster fit.

2 minutes ago, aali34 said:

CC was a king, he just got old.

OO was looking good before his injury.

Also the stats support it, Trae has both guys finishing in the top 10 as lob targets.

If those guys are already top 10 why get another big?  

I am firmly in the camp the Hawks need defense.  

If the Hawks are taking Sarr or Clingan with the #1 pick they will need to move one of CC or OO to open up playing time.  

If the Hawks do not move a big or move DJM then the cleanest fit at #1 is arguably Risacher who would slot in initially as the top big wing off the bench.  

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Trae turned Damion Jones into a viable rim lob threat.

When it comes to bigs, Trae is the King Maker.

If that were true OO and CC would be kings.

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He's way better than McGee right now. He's just a better Kessler on offense and slightly worse on D. His floor is just a lot higher than McGee.

He will score 18/12 next year for us with Trae. 

I like Clingan but I doubt he hits those marks as a rookie.  I think he will be a better defender than Kessler from day one.  He potential as a passer will be the skill that separates him from offensive zeros like Kessler and McGee, but again, that won't be day one.

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

What if Sarr doesn't get anywhere near his ceiling? 

 

Clingan, we know we get better instantly and he's a tremendous fit with Trae 

That is the risk.  Clingan needs to get on a real NBA conditioning, weight lifting and diet program and he needs to work to reach his ceiling too - otherwise he is a Javale McGee. 

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

The best thing about Sarr is he is 7'1", athletic, has great defensive instincts, and he can shoot -- he's the archetype of big that every single in the team would kill for.

He has the potential to be that archetype.  Will be a couple years before we know if he becomes that guy or not.  He is not likely going to be Chet Holmgren from day one.  

Clingan has the higher floor but Sarr has the higher ceiling.  Clingan can help now (defensively) while Sarr will likely take a couple years to develop.  

I really want Clingan for the Hawks but at this point I think the pick is Sarr.

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

EXACTLY!

AND THATS NOT COMIN THRU THE DRAFT.

Why we yelling at each other? 

Find the last rookie that changed a teams defensive fortunes and ill show you a generational talent.  Mic drop. 

Wemby will be that guy, maybe as soon as next season.  No one from this draft is going to turn a franchises tide as a rookie but some may prove to be very valuable pieces.

Sarr has a chance, but the Hawks and their fans will need to be patient because he strikes me as a guy who will need two years of development at the least.

Well, either we all need to brush up on our French or Connecticut because in my view the Hawks pick is coming from one of those places.

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

It’s exactly the reason, because the reason for trading him isn’t his play.  He’s been very good.  It’s because he’s “not a real center.”   Same shit fans did with Al.  

I think OO has just been okay. If he was very good he would have easily beat out a clearly in decline CC at some point the past two years. That lack of impact and improvement coupled with his frequent injuries makes him a huge question mark going forward in anything other than a backup role. I would definitely move him in a deal if it makes sense. 

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

I think Castle's 90th percentile outcome is an SGA type of player.  His low-end outcome if he doesn't gain consistency on his shot may be Jarrett Culver though.  With most of these prospects, there are very small chances that the actually hit the high end or the low end of their spectrum.  

To me, Castle has Jalen Suggs upside - tough perimeter defender and if he irons out his shot his offensive contributions make him an important part of a winning rotation, particularly one where you have Trae's shot creation to prop up the offense.  

As of right now, if I were the Hawks GM and got the first pick Clingan would be #1 on my board as of right now.  

I do agree with the sentiment that most of the lottery talent is 2 years away from making meaningful contributions to winning.  Knecht should be an exception to that but to me he does not make sense for the Hawks as he duplicates much of what Bogi brings to the table and does not address the severe defensive limitations of the current roster.

I would absolutely take Malik Monk on a $12m per year contract, but bringing him him would only make sense if DJM is traded for front court pieces and the team suddenly needs more back court depth.

5 hours ago, theheroatl said:

I wonder if the Hawks end up trading DJM for Lauri... Jazz need a PG and with Lauri they aren't getting anywhere. 

Doesn't solve our defensive issues which is the Hawks FO M.O. right now

My suspicion is the Jazz don't think they need a point guard that badly - they would likely prefer to keep developing Keyonte George in that role than have to bench him in favor of DJM and lose the frontcourt scoring presence Lauri represents.  

I am also not sure how a Lauri/JJ front court would fair defensively unless the team lands a Gobert like presence at center.

56 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Not sure where you got that.   It was pretty clear what Trae said.  He's not interested in being on a rebuilding team and waiting 2-4 years to be competitive.  Not sure how that is bad or any different than every other really good player in this league.  

Org has a decision to make.  Are we actually going to field a playoff cailibre roster or tear it down.  

To be devil's advocate, you could take the position that (a) Trae has not been on a competitive team for 3 years now and (b) given the expanded playoff format, just being a playoff team in and of itself is not a significant accomplishment, particularly in the East for the past few years.

To me the real question is whether the current roster has the right talent and composition to be a contender.  My answer would be no, in large measure due to the defensive shortcoming, lack of size or perennial injury risks of a handful of rotation players (chiefly Hunter, OO, Bogi and JJ).

Others can feel free to disagree but I do not see how the team can solve its defensive/size issues without trading DJM (I don't think they would trade Trae). Such a trade may involve a step back in order to take two steps forward.  

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Part of that has to do with OO's development since being drafted. Not only in the games he has missed due to injury, but the offseasons he has spent having to rehab vs working on his game. It all adds up. Can't forget 3 coaches as well.

Not sure I buy what you are selling (and to be clear, this is my personal view and I am not intending to invalidate your position).  OO played 80 games last season and had a full off-season for the first time to work on his game and yet he did not get better.  Without question last season with the experience he received and the health he had coupled with the new better coaching should have been his springboard to a new level and he just did not make that leap.  That to me is very worrisome for his long term outlook.

Happy to be proven wrong.

37 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Whatever you want to think.  It isn't factual, but if you want to think it, go ahead.  Al was a better player in his prime, and there is no reason for OO to keep from getting to that level or close to it.  OO can be another Bam Adebayo.  But let's continue to label him like Al was labeled.  

I don't think it is an insult to OO to say he is not as good as Al.  That is just a fact.  

I wish OO could be as good as Al or Bam but I just don't see it.  For one thing he does not have, or at least has not to date evidenced that he has, the court vision or passing acumen those guys have.

I don't see how anyone could support having OO as the starter given his track record of getting hurt.  He is almost guaranteed to miss 20+ games a year.  The Hawks would absolutely need to have a guy behind him who is just as good, because otherwise you are setting the team up to be massively shorthanded during the prolonged periods OO is unavailable.

Just think about going forward with a frontline of OO, JJ and Hunter.  Realistically, how many games per season do you envision those three all being available?  40 games where all three are healthy at the same time?  Would you take the over or the under?

I would 100% support moving OO if the team could get a good return due to the fact that he has so far not been able to force the issue and take CC's job and the fact that he has a real availability problem.

21 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Next year Murray will be making $25 M going up to 31 M over 4 years. 

In addition, OO goes up to $14 next year I believe.

57 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Another source that thinks were more likely to trade Trae.

To be clear, Hollinger himself is not saying to trade Trae, he is passing along what he has "heard".  Whether what he has heard is credible is obviously open for debate.

Personally, I find it is unlikely they trade Trae.  Given that, I hope they move Murray because to me running it back makes no sense at all unless the goal is to be mediocre.  

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

 

Caption of that video is misleading since it shows highlights from multiple seasons (Ivey is in some of those highlights). 

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Back 2 life, back 2 reality for Mr. Coby so far. 

Big difference playing against a team that plays defense versus whatever it is the Hawks do. Hawks have an uncanny ability to allow average players have career days.