Packfill

Guys like OO and Hunter are very difficult to rely on because they get injured so often. JJ concerns me in that regard as well. And in OO’s case he isn’t even playing a starter workload. How can you rely on him to play 30 minutes a night.

I would be totally fine with packaging OO with DJM to get a better return and fit around Trae.

CC I see as having low trade value so hard to move him in a deal that impacts winning. 

15 hours ago, kg01 said:

@lethalweapon3 deserves credit as I stole it from him.  Inspired by GT's bball coach. 

Worst part of that game is it made people forget that Coby White has a mortal fear of Trae.

Coby White sure seemed to forget that. He had no fear shooting from distance or going right to the cup. 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Both honestly should be 2nd rounders. Missi further away but he's also more likely to reach his potential. 

In my opinion they are both first rounders in this weak draft. 

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think Trae and DJM need to be split.  Both guys had positive net ratings when the other was off the court and they were highly negative when both were in the court.  I’ve never seen them synergize.  One needs to go, imo.  As always, you need a real return on the trade but I think we are in trouble if those two are starting next to each other to start next season.

I agree. Quinn has had 100+ games to see this backcourt won’t work. Time to be proactive and fix this. 

4 hours ago, marco102 said:

My favorite center is Kel'el Ware.  He has a lot to work on as far a feel for the game. motor and screening. 

To me he's the most talented center in this draft.  I'm looking for a two way center and he fits that mold better than any center in this draft in my opinion.

He can shoot, defend, and moves well.

 

Ware and Missi are talented but need substantial development. I doubt either will crack an NBA rotation for at least a year and a half, and more likely two years, after being drafted. 

Hawks need to make some major moves this off season. Rolling it back plus some draft picks will not change the results. 

The fact that Bufkin.and Mo can’t get run over third stringers is not a ringing endorsement. 

Call me a hater but I do not see the upside in this roster. 

3 hours ago, shakes said:

 

never good when I need @NBASupes to come in and explain my jokes to people.    Never good, but always appreciated 

For some reason I was thinking Jalen Hardy (g-league alum and now on Mavs) versus Jaden Ivey.  My bad.

1 hour ago, shakes said:

I see two future HOFers, one potential good player who I know nothing about and then two overrated stiffs from Purdidn't who both peaked in college..

Chet peaked in college?  His rookie year says otherwise from my perspective.

Unless I am wrong Zach and Edey are the only two of those guys who suited up for a U.S. college program.

My focus is on defense.  Ideally I want a big and a big wing, at least one of which is ready to play as a rookie.  Clingan is definitely a target but unfortunately I am expecting him to be gone before I get to make a pick.

That said, I would be looking to move Murray in the off-season so the return on that trade may change what I do in the draft.

C+ for Quinn from me.  Injuries is the only excuse.

Outside of JJ I am not seeing the player development - all the other recent draftees have either been injured or otherwise have not evidenced definitively that they can be reliable rotation pieces going forward.  Bruno, Vit and the Mathews will go back to being third stringers once everyone else is healthy.  

15 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I don’t think rookies should play anyway.  

I understand where you are coming from Quinn . . .

17 hours ago, KB21 said:

I like this draft.  

To me that is a draft high on upside and low on on court contributions for at least a year or two.  If I was the Hawks GM I want one of those first rounders able to play from day one.  Maybe that is asking too much from this draft.  

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

None of them were excellent players. 

Oscar wasn't 

Luka wasn't 

Frank wasn't 

Hansbrough is the best of what you listed and he wasn't one and he was a MIP candidate and a 6th man of the year candidate. Tyler probably ended up the 15-17 best player in his class which is around where he got picked. 

Jimmer had a worst DBPM than Trae Young in a middling conference and didn't have a PG game but was PG size. His career went as expected. 

None of these guys were excellent. Most were just good. Hansbrough, very good. They weren't as good as senior Clarke, senior Cameron Johnson, senior Edey, and junior Mikal Bridges. 

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=tyler-hansbrough--jimmer-fredette--frank-mason--luka-garza--oscar-tshiebwe

Excellent players 

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=zach-edey--mikal-bridges--brandon-clarke--cameron-johnson

The biggest issue those against Edey have is really their floor is just insanely too low. Edey floor is very high for most situations. It's his upside that's an issue for most teams. 

So Hansbrough was not a better college player than 5th year senior Cam Johnson in your estimation?  Hansbrough was player of the year and won a title for a reason.  Also of note, that of the 4 UNC players drafted in Hansbrough's draft that year he had the shortest career of the bunch.

And let us remember what Cam Johnson is - a decent rotation player with a nice outside shot and just enough defense.   The Hawks could use him as an upgrade over Bey.  

50 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I missed on a bevy of OADs. Reddish, Bamba, WCJ, Bol who had medical issues, Ayton who's disappointed. 

Only upperclassmen I've ever missed on was Toppin and Cameron Johnson. I had him as a late 1st rounder. I didn't see him being a 100 million dollar player. I felt small ball 4 would be his role but didn't realize, he wouldn't be a liability playing it. I was wrong on him and PHX who took him at 11 was right. Shouldn't have wrongfully graded an excellent college player. Him, Edey, Clarke, and Mikal Bridges were EXCELLENT college players. If someone is excellent in college, you should think they will at least be productive NBA players. At the least. They weren't excellent for no reason in college. All of the greats who played and only so few have been excellent. 

Plenty of collegiate all-americans and players of the year that have done nadda in the NBA.

Two recent Wooden Award winners are Oscar Tschiebwe and Luke Garza.  Or look back a few years at Frank Mason, Tyler Hansbrough and Jimmer Fredette.

Looking at the list of winners - Kevin Durant's freshman year was nuts!

While I think this is a great win I do not view any individual game as evidence of any specific long-term trend.

In saying that, I note that with or without Trae this team is mid - and has been for a few seasons now (basically since they lost in the ECF finals).  

I am hoping DJM's opportunity to play point in Trae's absence and the spike in his numbers help inflate his trade value so the team can move him in the off-season for a better long term fit next to Trae.  I still think that trade has to happen to move this team to the next level.  I wish I felt differently.

Great win. 

2 hours ago, hylndr11 said:

We have little leverage to fix this as well, unless we give up dj , I don't see anyone else bring of value enough to get anything back in a trade, assuming we also have to offload capella salary 

If I were GM I would definitely be looking to move Murray in the off-season.  I would also move Clint, but but I could only get negative value would move OO and draft a replacement (or get a replacement in a trade).  I would also move Bogi before age craters his value if I believed Kobe or AJ are ready for a legit top 8 rotation role.

I don't think a Trae and Murray back court gets us beyond mid unless one of our front court players develops into a superstar.  

A win is a win.  Hard for me to not look at this game through the lens of two teams decimated by injuries and limping towards the finish with losing records and think - whichever team gets a bench guy on a hot streak wins this game.  Good that it was the Hawks bench tonight with Bruno and Garrison.

I don't think either of those guys are rotation players on winning NBA teams though, more guys who are on the bench to play a role in the wake of an injury to someone ahead of them on the depth charts. Vit might have a chance of becoming a regular rotation piece if he can get some consistency on his outside shot.

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

I like the pairing with Brown because he's a big Guard.  He plays physical defense.   There's a He's from Atlanta Benefit.. and offensively, he can create a little for himself.   I think JJ is coming along. 

Most of yall missed our first round draft pick...  Holland. If we had Holland and JJ on the Wings with Brown and then brought Hunter off the bench.. we'd be unstoppable. 

 

I did not miss that. Holland is two years away, assuming he develops a reliable jumper, from being a useful rotation player. At that Clint and Horford are retired and the Hawks have no bigs and JJ’s new deal has them capped out. 

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

I think we have he 2nd richest Owner in the NBA.   The question is will he spend to win?

 

You could make an argument that winning a championship would have a much bigger impact on the value of the Hawks as a franchise versus the Celtics (since they already have some "championship" shine on their valuation) and thus it would be more lucrative in the long run for Ressler to make a big push for a championship to increase his bottom line.  

Now, is Brown the right piece?  He is absolutely, in my opinion, a move in the right direction but probably not enough, when coupled with Trae and what remains of the Hawks team, to get the Hawks over the finish line.  Maybe if JJ takes his came up another level they could get there, but that is asking a lot.

I would go all in for someone like Tatum to pair with Trae but probably not Brown (just like I would not have done the Murray deal as I do not see him as the right fit).

Can the Hawks afford two super max contracts and put a winning squad around those two contracts?

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Sam Vecenie in his mock this AM has Atlanta taking Tidjane Salaun at 10 and Tyler Smith at 20.  

Both of those guys are interesting.  I think both guys have a chance but each will need some time to further develop - so I would not draft either expecting any significant contributions in year one (though with Quinn and his approach with rookies in the ATL they may not get the time no matter their level of readiness).  Not sure I would draft two such players if I were the Hawks GM - I would likely lean into making one of those picks someone who can contribute soon.

I still think the Hawks need to make a real effort to move Murray in the off-season to bring in a better long term fit next to Trae.  The return on that trade would have a big impact on how these picks should be used.

Losing to a team with three 20 year olds in the starting line up is rough. Ugh. 

The problem with some of the contracts the Hawks have, and have given out, is that the team is not winning.  Someone putting up modest stats on a 60 game winning team is fine, because they are "contributing to winning."  Do the same on a loser and those same stats seem hollow.  

Paying for wins is okay.  Paying for empty stats is not.