Packfill

24 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

You mean the one guy that had 24-25?

Yes.  A back-up that outworked the Hawks.  

21 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Drummond got 25 boards How on earth can you say SIZE was not the issue. Granted no hustle or D but size as well. We brought nothing.

Drummond has been a bench guy for a few seasons now for obvious reasons.  Hawks could pick up a facsimile of Drummond today if they wanted one.  

If the Hawks can't outwork a mid team missing three starters then they do not have much of a chance.  

Bulls played only one guy that was over 6'7" last night.  

Size was not the issue.

Hawks lack effort on defense and on the boards.

5 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't really like making excuses related to players missing, but if you're going to do it, we were missing two of our most impactful players, JJ and CC.  Our front court is abysmal without those guys.  Allen and Mitchell are their two most important players.

Mitchell and Mobley are Cleveland's two most important players, followed by Garland and then Allen.  

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Idk that we should have won that game at all.  They're a better team this year.  They were at home.  We were on a b2b travel night... We didn't have our defensive anchor... Mitchell is the best player on the floor. 

Cleveland is really good and I wouldn't be surprised if they made serious noise in the post season

To me Cleveland tops out as a team capable of winning one playoff series but nothing more unless Mobley makes a major leap. 
 

They are very similar to the Hawks in that they have a very good backcourt but not so good it can reasonably be expected to be championship material. Both teams need a true difference maker in the front court. 

I get that JJ is important for the Hawks but watching the Cavs win games without Mobley and Garland is frustrating.

16 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Man the Luka argument is literally :

Luka is so great he could win with a bunch of scrubs around him.

Why didn't they make the playoffs last year?

He has a bunch of scrubs around him!!

Last year the Mavs deliberately avoided the playoffs so they could keep the pick that turned into Lively.  

Hawks defense is abysmal. Opponents are shooting lights out against the Hawks. 
 

I think they need more effort on defense. They are being more aggressive about trying to force turnovers but it is backfiring by giving opponents open looks. 

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think that is a reasonable position but who cares?  Based on what we know five years after a draft, I can make great calls about that draft.  That isn't particularly insightful. 

In terms of hypothetical trades, Luka is not available to any team for a trade so why bother talking about whether you would trade Trae or DM or 3 first round picks or whatever?  It is like saying you would trade Kobe for Wemby.  Ok.  So what?  That isn't going to happen regardless.  Wemby isn't available at almost any price. 

At least with someone like Siakam or OG, it is highly probable that he is in fact traded so there is meat on the bone for meaningful discussion.  Luka is the franchise for the Mavs and not going anywhere.

The  more interesting discussion around Luka to me is around roster building decisions that the Mavs have made where they have had multiple studs play with him and made interesting choices with Brunson, Kyrie, Porzingis, etc.

I think my response was in line with the scope of the thread.  I don't disagree with you though. 

I think the Mavs have made more mistakes then the Hawks in terms of building rosters around their young star, but they have also been much more proactive trying to remedy those mistakes versus the Hawks.   

Just now, Gray Mule said:

Don't forget, Atlanta traded Luka for Trae Young and Cam Reddish!  If the Hawks still had Reddish, would you still do a two for one swap?  When Reddish left, he became a part of our deal for Murray.  Reddish now starts for the Lakers...

Reddish to me is replacement level, so I would have absolutely no problem jettisoning him as well.

Based on what we know today I would trade Trae for Luka if given the opportunity.  I think the vast majority of NBA GMs would as well.  

That does not mean Trae is not a good player.  

To me, a Siakam acquisition only makes sense if the team has a specific goal of making some noise in the post-season this year.  

I am not sure that is a realistic goal given the teams performance to date.

Ingles is a very important part of the Magic's second unit, and their team is winning, they are not trading him for nothing.  Mills would definitely not get it done.

This Hawks team is streaky offensively.  Hard to win consistently like that when you cannot lock down on defense, though it can lead to some good results (i.e., a trip to the ECF).

The Bucks shot almost 60% from the field.  That should not happen.

The Bucks took 12 fewer shots overall versus the Hawks.

1 hour ago, JTB said:

It’s not about dribbling it’s about controlling the ball which he can do.

Hunter is a one dribble pull up guy, similar to Paul Pierce & ISO Joe in terms of style.

i think Hunter gets himself in trouble when he starts trying to dribble like he has point guard handles.

if he learns to use his body and size against 2s he has all star potential at this position 

Hunter is nothing like Paul Pierce or Joe Johnson, in particular as a ball handler.

By significant trade, does that imply a Bey like move or more of a Murray type of move?  I definitely would consider the later a significant trade, but not the former.

Crazy stuff tonight. Both teams should be embarrassed. 

On 11/19/2023 at 3:47 PM, Diesel said:

 

I'm not as concerned.   Mainly because we're in a new offense/defense with new personnel playing with him.  

The telling things is;

Last year...  as a team, our total rebounding was 44. 4 rpg.

This year...  as a team, our total rebounding is 44.2 rpg

To me that suggests that CC's numbers may be down but somebody else's is up. 

Collins on a top 20 rebounding list . . .  

29 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Are you wrong ... A little.   Jalen's minutes have doubled and he has already started in three more games than he started last year.  Jalen plays totally different than JC played.   JC was the guy that had been on the team the longest.   Now he's gone.  The whole team has to adjust to playing with Jalen.   And as you can see, the whole team plays differently. 

Think about us before vs. us Now...   Before, we never ran a fast break.  We walked the ball up and played a halfcourt set that was really the 1/5 PNR and what we could create off of that.   Now... we run the ball up every chance we get.    Before, our 4 would come up and set up in the corner like he was doing taxes out there.   Now.. Our 4 brings the ball up and is a passer in the offense. 

Looking at another team with a new system and comparing requires a lot of inspection, critical thinking and critique.

Here's what I mean...

Going for LP to Nate was a change with a changed system.  However, that change was a lot different than the one of going from Nate to Quin.  You can change coaches and change systems and still look relatively the same.   (LP to Nate)  Like... I know that Philly moved from Doc Rivers to Nick Nurse but The offense still works off of Embiid working in the high post.    Nick Nurse adapted the biggest strength of Philly under Doc which was Embiid in the High post.   However, when we look at the real change from Nate to Quin... (I said real because even though Quin was the head man last year, Prunty still ran the offense and defense)...  Trae is not doing the same offense and defense that he was doing last year.  Our offense and defensive changes were like night and day.  So no.. they don't cancel out.  IF I bring in a new system and you still get to do what you're comfortable doing... How long does it take you to adapt?

 

 

 

I would note that Philly is playing very differently this year without Harden then it did last year with him.  

I don't think not having Collins is a big change for the team.  He did not have the ball in his hands much, nor was the offense designed around him.  Not having a high usage player like Harden was for Philly last year, in my view, have a more meaningful impact on the way a team plays.

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nah.

What we're seeing is players learning a new system with new personnel. 

People who says that Trae is on the decline....  Can you admit that Trae is being asked to play the game much more differently than he has played before.    Remember, he used to be the one holding the ball and dribbling and everything was keying off of him.  Now, he's more of a cog in a machine...  Remember, it seemed like he took time off while the team was on defense?  Can you admit that part?   His shooting woes are just woes that he will have to work through.   Some of it is just spot and spacing.  But some of it is the same thing we have seen other Novembers. 

Last night, when Trae allowed his man to blow by and he nailed a three pointer (after having all day) I said.. that's it.   Trae is in the process of adjusting his shooting for space.  Right now in Quin's offense, Trae is not 100% familiar with his spacing.   i.e. how long before he's ran down on by the defense.   You can see it in his shot, he rushes it or he's looking around for the defender.   This is the part of learning a completely new system that a lot of fans don't account for... the familiarity of the last system is gone.   PNR is easy.. he's been doing that since he was in HS.   He knows exactly where the defense is going to be if he's running the 1/5 or 1/4 PNR.   However, what we're doing now... is unfamiliar.  Even if it seems like the same floater..  It's a different offense so he has to feel for the defender because the spacing is different. 

It's OK... I'm going to apply the @JayBirdHawk 20 game rule here.   Especially with a new coach with a new system.   He has to figure out how defenses will react to what we do.. but once he gets it, he will be good.  

Yes the Hawks have a new system, but I must be missing something because their current 8 man rotation consists entirely of players that were with the team last season.  Am I wrong?

Also, the new system "defense" does not apply when you are playing another team that also has a new system.  

All that said, the Hawks lost to a clearly superior team so hard to get too upset.

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agreed.  I will also point out that Westbrook's career high TS% is .554%.  Trae's underwhelming last season was .573% (and his career high is .603%).  Very big gap on scoring efficiency.

Trae is hands down the more efficient scorer.  Prime Westbrook did bring some other things to the table though.  Look at the roster of his team that MVP year and it is actually pretty impressive they won what, 47 games?  

15 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

Westbrook main success came when he was with KD. It's obvious why.

It's too bad. Despite passing on Luka, I still thought the first two years that Young could be that guy. His persona is something the Hawks have lacked for years. I don't understand why he can't atlesst be more efficient with his shooting. 

I would take the 46% and 36% in 3's he did a few years ago. I think the Hawks could win with him if he accepted being a second option with a SF that can score big. Those don't go on trees. Or atleast two 38%-40% kind of 3pt shooter's. Guys that have that percentage that can go off.

One would argue that they have two in Bogivand Bey... However, This team needs a Gallo player badly. This team misses a guy with Size that has that mix of 3pt and Post up ability. That player doesn't have to play 35 MPG a night, but that is the kind of threat the team has been missing since Gallo has been gone.

 

Also JJ right now is shooting 47% from 3; Murray 38%; Bey 37%; Bogi 35%; and Hunter 34%.  Plenty of shooting around Trae right now, particularly if you take the view that he is a shooter too (and despite his low percentages he has gravity to create open looks for others).

9 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

Westbrook main success came when he was with KD. It's obvious why.

 

To be fair I think he won MVP after Durant left.

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not for me.  It's 11 games in.  

I just need him to be more flexible with his rotations at end of games.

Agree it is still early for Quinn but I think a lot of us hoped that his time coaching last season would speed everything up this season - at least in terms of knowing the players and what he would want his rotations to look like.