Packfill

29 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There is only one that combines all of that.  Filipowski.

I am not sure on the defensive piece, but I am intrigued by Filipowski generally.  

My instinct though is the Hawks should lean more into defense then anything else in the off season.

According to ESPN:

Atlanta is 5-3 since losing Trae Young to injury mostly thanks to its defense. In that same span, the Hawks have held opponents under 101 points five times, something they only did once in their first 56 games.

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That's the conundrum.  Where the Hawks will likely be picking, the value for the "big" three may not be there.  Especially one that can play right away.  

That is why I would be aggressive on the trade market.  

Unless JJ because Tatum 2.0 (and going from "good" to "great" is exceptionally difficult, so I don't think that is something the team can expect) I do not see a path to championship contender with this Hawks roster so I view a retooling as essential.  I would have absolutely no problem adding Kobe, AJ or OO as trade filler if it gets me the right return.  

Reed Shephard and Dalton Knecht are very interesting prospects but I don't see how they make sense for the Hawks unless they are trading one or more of their existing back court players.  If the teams moves Murray or Bogi then drafting a guard would make more sense.

If I were the Hawks GM I would be actively looking to move one of Murray or Bogi along with Capela, ideally for a defensive oriented wing or a defensive oriented big with length, and then I would use the draft to fill whichever hole I have left after that trade.

If no trades, I would focus on finding a defensive oriented 3 to replace Bey and a big with size to ultimately replace Capela.  

Knicks are absolutely decimated by injuries.  Making the Hawks look healthy.

Is Kobe hurt?  Why is he being held out.

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I'm indifferent. It just depends on the situation. For the last 3 years. I've been go team upside. JJ and AJ were that. Kobe was the first pick in awhile we went BPA that fits. 

Now, we have two years of Trae. We need production and impact. I am for guys like Edey, Knecht, and a young guy like Risacher. 

I think the Hawks made a mistake with the Kobe pick.  They should have taken one of the available wing players like Whitmore or Jaquez.  Unless the Hawks make some trades Kobe will be the 4th guard next season, unless AJ beats him out for that honor.

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Defense ain't their biggest problem, as long as Trae is here, it's not gonna be anything to write about. It's offense. I've been saying it for years on here, offense is our biggest issue. We have an on ball offense 60 wins impact guy, there is no reason why we shouldn't be a truly elite offense that's hell on defenses. We can't keep focusing on improving something that got little upside. If our offense is truly elite, guess what is limited? Transition baskets. Guess who is insanely horrible in transition, Trae. Guess what limits transition, picking the ball out of the net. 

Elite offense alone will not with the Hawks a championship.  They need some guys who can lock in on defense.  Even the Warriors needed guys who could get it done on defense, and the Hawks are a long way from having an offensive machine like that.  

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I disagree. Most of our problems are due to our offense at the 5. You fix that, you turn this team into one of the best in the NBA. I remember Chicago with Lonzo, with him, they were one of the best in the NBA. Without him, they sucked. They needed a floor general like Lonzo who also could defend his ass off. Without him, their team basically is like us now. Just there. 

I think the Hawks biggest problem is their absolute crap defense. Edey won’t fix that. 

Very uninspired basketball this afternoon. Nets stunk less today. 

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

 

Imagine this projection with either keeping Collins at $27M or adding Thybulle @ 4 years $14M.  We’re a few million away from the second apron without those guys.  

The solutions you guys present for this year actually do create roster questions that are hard to manage for next year.

The funny thing is everyone wants to play Kobe, AJ, and I’m sure whoever we draft in 2024, but if we cut guys like Bey, Capela, and Bogi you guys will complain they are salary dumps and we’re not trying to add talent.

Apart from spend more money, I never hear a legitimate idea.  Signing Thybulle or keeping Collins pushes your cap allocations to $198M or higher for next year.  

So the proposal I hear is play 4 draft picks as much as possible while also keeping guys like Bey, Thybulle/Niang, and Bogi for the bench.  Not to mention the issue with what do with Capela/Okongwu.  

Looking for real answers going forward.  It’s not an easy fix.  

The team may need to take a step back before it can take two steps forward. I would trade Murray and whomever else it takes to find better fits (and that has to include more defense) around Trae and JJ (I would even trade JJ in the right deal) and then hope to get some hits in the draft. Will take at least two years of development and roster tweaking from there to know if those moves paid off. 

On 2/28/2024 at 10:27 AM, KB21 said:

It's about the process over the results.  While the Hawks don't have a winning record, they aren't intentionally doing things that will lose them games.  Such as playing young players before they are ready to actually contribute to winning basketball.  From a developmental standpoint, they are still developing habits that lead to a winning culture.  It will pay off in the end if they stay the course.  It's much better for this team to get a chance to earn a playoff spot than for it to get a high draft pick in a draft that lacks great talent at the top.  That would be the case even if the draft had great talent at the top.  

Which player projected to go in the top 3 at this time can come in and make this a better team in 2024-2025?  IMO, not a single one.  Yeah.  I'd love to get Cody Williams as a developmental wing.  I'd love to get Alex Sarr as a developmental big.  Neither player helps us in 2024-2025.  Regardless of what anyone actually thinks about this team, this is a team where it's going to be tough for any young player to get minutes early on anyway.  That's why I don't have any issues towards taking a developmental guy with the two picks we will likely end up with in the mid to late teens when it is all said and done.  I'm not even sure a seasoned guy like Dalton Knecht would get a lot of minutes in Atlanta next season.  

If the Hawks are just going to roll back the same roster as this season, perhaps minus Bey (and even if he is resigned), I do not see a reason to expect different results.  The team needs to make a meaningful change in the off-season to reverse a steady trend of declining mediocrity.  

26 minutes ago, terrell said:

Disagree with what?

25-10?

Yall give Trae too much credit for that 2021 run. IMO(some deserving of course.)

Our bench was spectacular.. Not to mention we had MVP Capela..

Trae fg and 3 pt shooting was ass..

I dont even think we beat the Knicks if Mitchell Robinson was healthy

Kev star performance saved us in Philly game 7

Trae was like 5-25 or some shit

 

 

 

I agree with AHF.  DJM is a nice player but the only way he is averaging 25-10 is on a bad team.  

I also agree with AHF that a silver lining of Trae's injury may be the opportunity to showcase DJM to enhance his trade value in the off-season (with the idea of bringing in a better fit alongside Trae).

Trae has his warts for sure but he offensive talent that makes the Hawks uniquely dangerous - and gives them the ability to win a playoff series.  I don't think they have enough defense currently to do that but if they can get that part squared up then they can be dangerous in the playoffs.  It will require some very meaningful roster changes, including in all likelihood moving on from DJM to get a better defending guard to play alongside Trae.

24 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I mean, those stats tell the story.  It doesn't matter how many points you score if you can't stop anybody.  Thats the Hawks dilemma. If they are really trying to win they have to address it.  IF THEY ARE REALLY TRYING TO WIN. The first step is to evaluate EVERY player.  The next step is to come up with the solution.  Right now the Hawks front office appears to be trying to stradle both sides of a fence and it can't be done.  You have to address the lack of defense in your backcourt and it doesn't matter If Trae Young OR Dejuante Murray doesn't like it (thats player evaluation). 

If you have to go with a bigger point guard more often and in key situations to slow down the other team then so be it. I'm not adverse to playing Jalen Johnson in the backcourt (either guard position).  He has the skillset to do it and would be the player they SAID Bill Simmons WAS suppose to be. 

Dejuante is just out there.  He doesn't care anymore.  Thats the problem with players when they see no vision from the front office. It rubs off on the players and they just show up.  This isn't about Trae Young himself, its about the message you are sending your team.  The Spurs long success was based on treating every player equally and as a cohesive team unit.  The Celtics success is also like that.  The Warriors long success was based on that. They play TEAM ball on offense and defense and nobody is bigger than that.  It starts at the top.

JJ would get roasted trying to defend guards. He is barely adequate defending small forwards. 
 

The Hawks need a premium defender at center, another defensive oriented big wing and a strong defensive guard, and they need those players to be real top 8 rotation players. 

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

It's odd that people just ignore reality to make their criticisms.  Trae has arguably been our best perimeter defender this season.

But folks see him fail to challenge a 6'8" guy at the rim like, "SeE, sEe TReY cAnT GaRd a ChAiR!!!!"

Dafuq is he supposed to do in those scenarios?  And, because everybody else is so lackadaisical, these physical mismatches happen more often than they should. 

Teams still hunt trae on defense. That won’t stop and teams will keep pushing switches so Trae ends up on those wings who can then score effortlessly.  

To be clear the rest of the teams defense is total crap too. Rudy Gobert or prime admiral in the middle can’t solve all our issues at this point. 

43 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

His metrics been so awful this year. The lack of center production is the biggest reason for our failure this year. Murray and Trae actually been fine

Biggest reason for the Hawks failure this year is the WOAT defense across the board. This is one of the worst defensive teams ever. They will not win consistently until that is fixed.

On 2/20/2024 at 4:15 PM, AHF said:

This is what I'm seeing:

 

Manute - 200 pounds

Biz Z - 238 pounds

Smits - 250 pounds

Gobert - 258 pounds 

Edey - 300-310 pounds

Ming - 310 pounds

Priest Lauderdale - 325 pounds

I bet Ilguaskas was at least 260 at his peak performance level.  But maybe I am wrong.

My personal belief is that if the Hawks are going to retain the Trae/Murray backcourt and want to invest in another center they need to get one with size and major defensive upside.  Clingan would maybe be a fit but I doubt he is ready to play in year one and he seems injury prone.  

On 2/16/2024 at 10:27 AM, AHF said:

I haven't watched him so I have no opinion on him one way or another.  One question though is around the size thing.  There aren't many players who have been 7'4'' in NBA history.  Today's Sabonis is 6'10'' a size for which they are hundreds of successful players but his dad was a real outlier at 7'3'' and was a generational talent (who came to the US too late in his career) with his mobility, touch, and skill at that size.  Jokic is 6'11'' which is quite common.  Nurkic as a 7'0'' player becomes somewhat more scarce but still a good number of guys who have had long and successful NBA careers at that height.

I guess I just don't really think of guys who are 6'11'' or 7'0'' as being in the same category as guys like Bol who are significantly taller many of whom who seem to struggle more with their size.

7'4'' is really rare.  I can think of Rik Smits who made it work by being quite athletic for his size.  Yao Ming was even bigger and the only thing that really held him back was health as he was very coordinated and mobile for his size.  Arvydas was a unicorn as we discussed (nobody had reservations about him - just a matter of him being eligible and available to play).

There is no doubt in my mind that a guy like Edey (if he delivers like Supes and some others suggest he could) would bring something to the table that CC and OO cannot.  I would also guess if he had the tools of an Arvydas or Smits that he would be a no brainer lottery pick so that he probably doesn't have those gifts.  Who would you guys think are the comps for Edey just from a physical tool standpoint (mobility, strength, etc.)?  (And I'm not talking about 6'11'' or 7'0'' guys but the guys who are the true outliers at 7'3'' or higher.)

For comps I would say Zydrunas Ilgauskas - really tall, skilled, not very mobile.

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This team really ain't that hard to fix. 

Atlanta needs a better fit at 2 but they have to shoot and defend with plus size. 

Hunter needs to be back in the starting lineup for defensive purposes. Offensively, the 2nd unit is better for him but defensively, we are trash without him. 

JJ offense is where his upside is. Defensively, he's probably not going to be more than a +5. 

Atlanta needs an offensive 5 who can score at a high clip and make easy baskets. The Hawks lack of making easy baskets is the death of the offense. 

The Hawks need to learn to play defense. They would give up 120 points to a g league team. 

Someone forgot to tell Tre Mann that they are trying to NOT win games. 
 

Tanking is no match for the Hawks defense though! 
 

If the Hawks win and evidence real upside and potential to contend the team will have no problems attracting free agents to fill complementary roles. 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Ryan Dunn is probably the top target for our 2nd 1st. He's flawed but we need a stud defensive guy extremely bad

BPA on first 1st. Reed Sheppard is my top prospect. 

Reed is good but unless there are some trades this summer he duplicates what the team already has (offensive oriented combo guards).

Generally for this team I would lean towards a more experienced college prospect that can step in immediately to a bench role. 

Assuming they are not resigning Bey (due to cap considerations) has to be a big like Filipowski (though he is probably long gone before the Hawks pick) or a big wing that can play defense (because we cannot rely on Hunter as the only big wing defender as we have learned this year).

11 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yes!  And i mentioned in the game thread but ECF team was really good.  It wasn't a fluke.  It was the sign of things to come.  One star with a bunch of really good players.  That's the NBA we're in now.  We're lucky to have one of those stars.  We just started subtracting more than we added. 

Think about this for a second.  Knicks are going all in on Brunson and Randle and Randle is out for an extended period of time.   So they are basically throwing everything they can because they see a chance to contend with Brunson as their best player.  No knocking him.  He is legit.

But we're scared to spend money around Trae. 

To me the ECF Hawks team is looking like a fluke.  They got hot for two to three months and have not been able to replicate that for years now - in fact they have arguably been getting worse every year since. 

Trae is an amazing offensive engine but it seems like the team needs a defensive engine to make this work consistently (similar to how GS had Draymond to anchor and orchestrate the defense while Curry could drive the offense).

14 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I agree.

Don't wait until next season to start to give Bufkin and whomever meaningful minutes.  Build for whatever role they're going to play on the team next year, today.

I agree with all this as well, but realistically if the Hawks are keeping Trae, DJM and Bogi next season Kobe and AJ will need to fight for the 4th guard minute scraps unless they make a deliberate move to cut down on the vets minutes.  There will of course be opportunities when injuries arise.

Right now I am really wishing the Hawks went with Whitmore over Kobe in the draft but time will tell.