Packfill

13 hours ago, kg01 said:

 

If we can't get Trae his Robin, let's get him his Bane .....

Desmond Bane would be a great fit in the backcourt next to Trae.  I doubt, however, Memphis moves him.

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Projecting skill level wasn’t an issue when Wemby was a 27% three point shooter in France.  

Wemby had a whole lot more production in a better league at the same age and as evidenced by his rookie year results, will be impactful whether or not his shot develops.  Sarr's skillset suggests his outside shooting will be more important to him becoming a positive offensive player.

All that said, Sarr's game could easily change (particularly his level of physicality) as he matures so the shot may not be as important to his profile as it seems now.

5 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

I agree.  Bridges (and Claxton) are the only two pieces on Brooklyn that may interest me.

Cam Johnson is a good player, so he is interesting and would fit on the Hawks, but he is a complementary player.  As a second piece in a trade he works but not as a centerpiece unless it is a deal not involving a player the caliber of Murray.

3 hours ago, Hawkish said:

My thought, too.  Is Cam Thomas a good defender?  Maybe confusing the two…

Cam Thomas is a terrible defender.  Cam Johnson is a good defender, but far from elite.  Not a shot creator though and not someone I would center a Murray trade around.

22 minutes ago, Afro said:

Definitely agree with all of this and what @REHawksFan said above. 

The real problem was having the Gallos, Huerters, Collins, Snell, Reddish(to an extent) that made a cohesive team with a vision and replacing them with also rans like the Holidays and Matthews of the world.

These last few years the Hawks have had rosters that maybe had 5 total guys that were functioning and fit together. Thats real bad lol. 

They need to trade DJM away for pieces that create an actual team again. 

The most straightforward approach to building a consistent winner is having two stars that fit together.  Hawks tried that with Murray (just like the Mavs tried with KP) and now need to pivot. How good they do in that endeavor will shape the team over the next 3 plus seasons.  

Maybe they can try an ensemble cast instead but that requires a lot of puzzle pieces to fall into place.  I prefer a star coming back for Murray and if I need to package OO, Kobe, the #1 pick or some other assets to get the right star I would do it.  

11 minutes ago, Afro said:

Egg-zactly.

I hate to keep beating this same drum.....but Trae has won before? DJM hasn't done anything really in 7 seasons? What are we doing here lol. Some people just need to say they hate him for his haircut so we can move on. 

Plus, Trae won with a roster that really isnt all that difficult to replace. It's not like he made the ECF with a bunch of superstars we can't afford anymore. Just a bunch of quality role players who could play team defense and hit shots. That's not that hard to build lol. 

Also, that run wasn't a fluke. Hawks beat a decent and healthy Knicks team. Beat the Sixers with a functioning Embiid(as much as he ever is in the offs) and a Ben Simmons who was still elite. Went toe to toe with the Bucks. That wasn't a mickey mouse run. Trae really did that shit. 

Im gonna keep saying this until people acknowledge it and stop with this "how do you compete with Trae"? BS. Tyler Jones says it best. The problem never was Trae. The problem is the Hawks had no idea why that team was good.....and its been years and they STILL dont know why that roster was good. 

 

Asking a front office that cant put a minimumly competitive roster around a superstar.....to build a roster without said superstar.....is stupid as hell lol. 

Let me start by saying I don't mean to diminish what the Hawks accomplished by advancing to the ECFs.  That was a great run.  

That said, lots of teams get on a heater and advance in the playoffs to their conference finals.  Very few teams, however, get back there.  The Hawks and Trae have to get back there to prove it was not a one time outlier.  

This season showed the east is wide open.  The Hawks can pull a Mavs/Pacers and get there - and maybe even beyond, but they need to make some serious tweaks to the current roster to do that in my opinion.  

I would make trading Murray (alone or as part of a package depending on the return) a priority this off-season.  I don't think running it back will get the Hawks where they want to go in the short or long term.  Whether that trade be one of the New Orleans iterations we have all seen or a trade with another point guard needy team (there are a few - Orlando (trade return ideally centered around Suggs), Phoenix (ideally with the return being Booker), Nets (with return centered ideally around Bridges), Lakers (would need a third team involved), etc.).

If the Hawks could trade Trae for someone like Devin Booker I am all in on that type of move (since I am getting an alpha scorer back and ), but I would not be in on a trade for a package of good players and future picks.  

IF I were GM I definitely would be prioritizing a Murray trade this off-season.  I don't think the Suns would do it but I would move Murray and the #1 pick (or OO) for Booker if I could.  

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think that is a false equivalency.  OO's biggest stumbling block in terms of performance has been his health.  He has consistently put up nice numbers and lineups around him have been strong performers.  When the Hawks have important games, he is absolutely an important part of the rotation.  Even as a rookie, OO had some big playoff minutes.  Fundamentally, there might be things you'd like to see better from him but he doesn't have any holes in his game.

Daniels conversely gets cut out of the rotation in the important games for NO.  He also has a huge hole in his game with his jumper.  31% 3pt% isn't going to cut it.  Somehow even OO had a better 3pt% than Dyson this year.  As a guard that is a pretty massive issue for him.

I just don't see them as being on the same level right now.  Dyson has potential for sure but he might not be part of your playoff rotation at all next year like he wasn't this year.

Dyson definitely needs more development than OO - that makes sense given their relative ages/experience.  He is less of a sure thing. 

Hawks are going to need to take some chances.  I don't think NO parts with two rotation pieces in this deal.  Frankly, I would not do an Ingram deal period, but if the team is determined to bring him in I think this is an approach they could consider.

1 hour ago, Afro said:

It's fun to compare Supes(? sorry if I have the wrong person) latest report about Center options this offseason with Pels fans thinking OO is just some throw in level player lol. 

In the proposed deal OO is only a throw-in if you consider Dyson a throw-in.  Both are young guys with talent that have been blocked from taking on bigger roles.

Daniels has real talent.  He has the makings of a high-level wing stopper that also provides secondary playmaking/ball handling.  If his shot comes around he could be alot better than Herb Jones.  Big if obviously, but OO has question marks as well.

18 hours ago, Threezus said:

I have never wanted to take him as a 5 i have him as a 4 all day long.  Onyeka is strong as a ox and can handle 5's in most cases just like Bam can.  If you get Edey as a backup or swap in on much bigger 5's to help onyeka then even better.    Now if Sarr gets stronger as he grows into his grown man body and keeps his athleticism still at like 240 to 250 then sure let him slide to 5 at times when needed.  But to me  as i just said in another thread with jaybird.   Jalen at 3, Sarr at 4, and Onyeka/Edey at 5  is about the best big man group you can hope for around Trae with length, defense, and size at 3 key positions.   Then find a really good offball 2 way SG like Caruso or  maybe even ingram at the 2 for a tryout with that group and i think you are cooking. 

I think it is okay to dream on a JJ/Sarr/OO front line but I think that will be a disaster on offense from a spacing perspective for at least a season or two.  OO and Sarr still have a lot of growth needed as shooters from an accuracy perspective and both will need to show they can shoot with enough accuracy, and with enough volume, to stretch defenses.

On 6/7/2024 at 12:57 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Ron Holland, the No. 2 overall recruit from the 2023 high school class, could slide completely out of the lottery, per @DraftExpress
httpsory/_/id/38788364/2024-nba-draft-rankings-espn-top-Holland has recently scheduled pre-draft workouts with the Heat (No. 15) and Lakers (No. 17). After an inconsistent season with G League Ignite, Holland’s potential draft range is massive.

Holland is a tough evaluation. To me he has a lot of upside.  Probability is low but I could see a scenario where he ends up as the best player from this draft, as I think he could become an alpha scorer and plus defender. He has a lot of work to do to reach that ceiling though. 

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I thought we had a few Risacher and Clingan guys on the board.  Where you guys at?

I really like Clingan and think he is going to help someone next season. If I thought the Hawks were in position to make noise in the post season next year he would be my pick. 
 

Too much uncertainty now though with the Hawks roster but hopefully a Murray trade clears that up. 

Sarr, but I have a lot of concerns about him developing into a real starting caliber player let alone a star.

51 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

This ain't the NFL where EVERY draft pick has real value.  2/3 of every NBA first round is potential garbage. You don't trade what is supposed to be a definite (No. 1 pick in the draft) for a bunch of maybes.  This ain't spades.  If the Hawks front office can't figure out who the "definite" guy is at 1st overall in the draft they need to not be in the front office.  This ain't about needs either even though Sarr lines up with a need.  You get the best player, period, end of discussion.

Unfortunately there are no definites in this draft.  There is no Wemby, Lebron or Tim Duncan where there was 100% consensus that they were going to be stars.  Sarr may be the best prospect just because of his potential upside, but in my view the reason he is not more well regarded is because the probability that he hits that upside is low - which is why some other prospects, like Clingan and Risacher, who may have lower ceilings but higher floors, are being considered at the top of the draft.

At the end of the day though, we have no idea.  There are disappointments in every draft and players that surprise.  Jokic was a second rounder and now he is on his way to the hall of fame. 

4 hours ago, therealist said:

i agree that this is a possibility. do any big brain hawks fans have any other ideas for pieces that could immediately improve a trae young-centric roster? lots of teams vastly improved last year by making small moves or regressed due to letting role players walk. i'd love to start thinking about ideas like that rather than swinging for the fences. giannis, KAT, siakim talk is obviously more exciting, but i feel like all that discussion has been run through

personally, i think KCP is out of denver and would b a great defensive piece next to trae. he's a georgia guy too. we'd still have to move DJM in this scenario, but i feel like that's an inevitability at this point (if the FO has decided to keep trying with trae, which i think they have)

I would love to see the Hawks cut a deal with Orlando with Murray going out to Orlando and Suggs being the main piece that comes back.  Murray fills their need for a point guard and they can presumably use recent lottery picks Black and Howard to backfill the guard position (Black in particular to provide the defensive presence Suggs provided this season).  Orlando will have a lot of pay dates in the future and Murray provides some cost certainty going forward along with more shot creation which should take some pressure of Paolo from a shot creation perspective.  Atlanta obviously wants Suggs perimeter defense and his improved 3 point shot.  There will need to be some other pieces involved but those would be the principals.  

Alternatively the front office can look to target some pre-breakout two-way wings.

10 minutes ago, Afro said:

To further your point 

If 5-6 seed isn't even in the realm of possibilities for some folks..... Why were they so mad that we were a play in team? Isn't that what should be expected then? Especially accounting for all the injuries. 

The Hawks had a lot of injuries this season but a bunch of teams above them in the standings were hit even harder - Cleveland, NY and Philly to name the obvious. Those teams are where the Hawks want to be despite the injuries. 
 

We know the current pieces don’t work together so rolling it back makes no sense if the goal is to be competitive. Hawks need to flip Murray for a better fit. 

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

...never gets old.

That is the only thing I really remember about him!

17 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

He appears faster but footwork is more off in my opinion.  Really like I've said over and over, this is like comparing Jon Koncak to Patrick Ewing.  No way you consider Clingan when Sarr is on the board.  If the Falcons can get it together and put WINNING over optics (which they have), the Hawks can too.  They have put marketing secondary and winning first.  Drafting a slow Clingan doesn't even help Trae Young for the many folks who want to keep him.  Too slow for pick and roll.  Teams have already figured out that you put fast guys on Trae and either hard hedge him or blitz him.  Then you want to compound that with a slow Clingan?

 

I don't quite understand the comparison between Ewing and Kontract.  Ewing was the no doubt #1 pick.  Kontact wasn't -  and he wasn't even the second center off the board, albeit in what was then a center dominated draft era.  

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

I can give you my reasoning.  When he had decent point guard play with Lonzo Ball he was a much better shooter.  Trae Young's playmaking is much better than Lonzo's so some think he will shoot more spot up threes and improve his efficiency while defending a bit better than Murray on two's and threes. 

Not saying this will happen but explaining the unfathomable to you. 

I really do not think Ingram can guard 2s.  To me, a Trae Ingram backcourt would be trash defensively and forces Trae to guard the point guard even if he is the tougher of the matchups.

2 hours ago, terrell said:

Yeah OKC trade is weird..

They'd have to give up Dort too to match salary, and that ain't happening.. lol

Unless they're throwing in Cason Wallace, Kendrich Williams, and Josh Giddey....

 

Given how the playoffs went for OKC, I think they would move Giddey in a deal for Hunter.  His shooting would be beneficial to them.  I would not want him on the Hawks though at this point unless they think they could fix his shooting.

34 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

I'm not sure why people think that Sarr can't contribute like Mobley early.  He's over an inch taller and 15 lbs heavier than Mobley was.  His per36 numbers are similar to Mobley's one year in college.  The NBL is better probably better competition than the NCAA too.  Every player in the NBL is a pro.  Every player in the NCAA is not a pro and most will not be.

Coming into an established offensive system with a player like Trae he's not going to be forced to do things.  He can play defense, press the break and rim run.  Not saying he will put up 15/10 next year but I think 12/9 is an absolute possibility if we give him minutes.  

While LaMelo and Giddey were able to translate production at in the Australian NBL to production in the NBA very early in their careers, I think Sarr is going to need more development to get there as he was not as impactful in the NBL as those guys were at the same age.  Hopefully, Sarr's development is a lot quicker than Ousmane Dieng.

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I see a lot more creation ability with Wagner, and if Risacher isn't a legitimate 6'10", then any comparison to Wagner goes out the window.  

Agreed, but I think there is some upside to get to a Wagner level and that would also be great for the Hawks.

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Maybe, but I'd argue that being an Evan Mobley type is definitely within reach for him, and that is a positive outcome for a #1 overall pick.  

Let's look at the player archetypes of both of these guys and which player within that archetype is the most likely outcome.

My vision with Sarr has his floor as Nic Claxton with a very likely outcome that he's another Evan Mobley.  I am listening to a podcast though that compared him to Clint Capela at the same age and feels like Capela is his floor.  I thought it was interesting, because I think Sarr has a better base of additional skills.  

With Zaccharie Risacher, I'm thinking a Trey Murphy type is a likely outcome.  

I don't disagree with your assessment of outcomes, but I do think it will take Sarr longer to get there then Mobley - meaning I think he is not as likely to come in day one and be a plus contributor like Mobley.  Over time, yes, I think he can get there and that would be a great outcome for the Hawks.  I do have some Brad Sellers vibes though which I hope I am wrong on.

Risacher I see more in the mold of someone who will ultimately guard 3s and 4s, rather than 2s and 3s like Murphy - so maybe more Cam Johnson or Franz Wagner.  

1 hour ago, deester11 said:

This is a secondary viewpoint for me but I feel this post.  Sarr is almost the no brainer pick in a draft where 3-30 could be the same players: depth and nothing more.  Scouting is inexact but for once, there is more consensus that Sarr has the biggest upside of anyone in this draft than those who think he'll never reach it.

I get it. He has a lot of work to do, but he's exactly the type of prospect you dream on and plan for.  The overthinking with this organization has always been an Achilles heel.  For once...I would like to see A Falcon-esque "screw you" by taking the player no one saw us being able to get:Sarr. 

Sarr has considerable upside but he is not the type of guy you dream about being able to get when you have the number 1 pick.  He is not Wemby, Shaq, Lebron, etc.  That is okay - obviously there isn't anyone like that in this draft - but let's be honest about the opportunity here.  

And please do not do a Falcons style pick!  Sarr, to be clear, would not be a Penix like pick at all.  

33 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Sarr ceiling has got to be higher than Evan Mobley, just a question of if he gets there.  Risacher feels more like MPJ than Mikal but I admit I haven't watched a ton of film on him

I think if Evan Mobley was in this draft (and I am am talking Evan Mobley the prospect coming out of USC) he would be the clear cut number 1 pick and it would not be particularly close - and that is not to say Mobley was a generational talent like Wemby, just that he would be the easy best prospect in this draft.