JustSomeGuy

Good post and agreed @AHF.

People only think Siakam isn’t legit because he doesn’t talk and isn’t media hyped but his game is nice. He’s 29 but the way y’all make it sound he’s on his last legs. Even with some slight regression over the next few years he’s still reliably a 20/8 guy who can create shots, handle, and pass, with championship experience which is more than the net zero he would be replacing.

@Peoriabird so superstars must be efficient? I guess Allen Iverson and his 42%/31% shooting splits make him less than a superstar. How about Carmelo Anthony who had several season shooting under in the low 40s/low 30% from 3? Russell Westbrook? D. Wade’s career 29% 3 pt percentage. Luka… career 33% from 3. Efficiency only tells part of the story.

Did anyone say he didn’t need to be more efficient? @Peoriabird

@Peoriabird again, nobody would disagree with that statement. Trae being better only makes the team better. But you know what also makes the team better? Trae being as good as he is and everyone else getting better. Your statement being debated though was that Trae wasn’t a superstar which is what is generating debate. And to respond to your statement, Steph and Lebron are arguably two of the 10 players of all time and easily the two best and most impactful players of the last 15 years. If that’s your litmus test then A LOT of players fall short. Including Dame who might be widely considered a better player and more efficient but has won less (arguably making him less impactful than Trae). Nobody was talking about Jokic as anything than a regular season stat stuffer until this past spring. Sounds like your superstar meter is just broken

I like the Usman pickup btw. Would’ve preferred Sengun but it sounds like Houston only wanted CC if he was to come with Harden and with no Harden there was no deal to be made.

@Peoriabird your statement assumes he’s only a superstar if he is an MVP caliber player. Which might be your criteria, but to most others is generally a false assumption.

And people think Trae is overpaid

@Watchman i don’t understand your commentary. Under what scenario do we not need veterans? And you’re saying you’d rather overpay unproductive players than let them go if they aren’t contributing to winning? And in what world is valuing your own homegrown All-NBA player an overpay, especially compared to attracting someone else’s talent? I can understand if you don’t have confidence in the FO to make the right choices, but you can’t argue against the logic in either the selective investment or the salary dump.

@Diesel The Belkin model sounds ideal. Problem is in the player empowerment era your best young talent will force their way out of town before to construct the right mixture. What I like about that approach is it understands that while every asset is valuable, every asset isn’t going to get you closer to the goal of winning a championship. Talent evaluators can’t (or shouldn’t) get emotionally attached to players (as has been reported that TS did here). You can’t pay everyone and not everyone is not going to contribute to winning at the highest level. This is what got Atlanta into this situation to begin with, overvaluing it’s own middling talent. JC was known to have his limitations. He wasn’t consistent enough to be the second best player on a championship squad. We knew that and paid him anyway. Deandre didn’t even play in our ECF run and brnefitted as being “the missing piece” to a championship core which was really Trae and a group of solid veterans (more on this in a moment) Part of being a championship program is knowing when to part with talent that’s 1, blocking the pathway to playing time by younger talent with higher floors, 2, knowing when to sell high on talent that has plateaued and 3, knowing how to supplement your young talent with veteran support. Someone gave the example of Golden State. Before that team won a championship they sold off productive players like Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, and David Lee to make room for for guys like (Number 1 bust) Andrew Bogut, second rounder Draymond Green, declining Richard Jefferson Kevon Looney, etc. Those guys all played a major role in their championship DNA. The foundations to that team weren’t laid by simply valuing guys they drafted but by knowing who did/didn’t fit. In some cases you had to sell low on guys, or let guys walk, but that’s part of the game because if you don’t have dealmaking flexibility you’re fxcked. When you pay everyone, yes you retain assets but lose roster flexibility and restrict your ability to compete with non-championship talent. But when nobody wants to (or has the ability to) take back their overinflated contract or give you equal or greater value in exchange, you’re stuck with guys (like JC and Hunter) who have some ability but are too inconsistent/major flaws in their game to contribute to winning at the highest level. In our attempts to lock up our own talent for cheap, we overbid ourselves on the RFA market, not once but TWICE. Arguably those two contracts are the biggest albatross on our ability to compete right now. Like, let’s be real. Does anyone see JC or Hunter as starters on a championship level squad? Would they make the starting 5 for any legitimate championship contender? Would you replace anyone in the Nuggets starting five with these guys? What about the Warriors? Or the Bucks? If the answer is no, then stop crying over spilled milk. Which brings me to my last point. This team needs VETERANS. I think Trae and DJ will be fine. But we need guys around them who know and can play their roles at a high level. That’s what makes Bogi and Capela so valuable to this team because they know their roles and play them well. This is why Gallo and Lou were so big on that last ECF team. Even Solomon Hill, as much as he had no business playing, knew his role. If a couple of our young dudes develop and we add the RIGHT veteran piece or two to our rotation (namely on the wings) I think it greatly changes the trajectory of this team very fast. This is going to likely come from that TPE or trade pool. Now Capela is beginning to decline, now is the time to sell on him while he has value that can return us AT THE LEAST an equally talented role player and preferably a positional or asset upgrade. Thats the FO job to find that player(s).

John Collins is not and will never be an All Star player. If you told me he might contribute to them winning more, yeah sure, but the hyperbole needs to be given a rest. Most of his perceived values comes from playing with an elite shot creator in the first place. He was a net negative on the court on both the eye test and metrics test. We upgraded by letting him go if for nothing else than clearing pathways to PT for talent that fits better.

Everyone misses the point about the LT. It’s not about paying just to pay, Ressler has said continually that he would be willing to pay under the “right”’conditions. For the right team. Paying the LT for a non championship team is stupid and wasteful.

His trade for Bey is also what allowed us to salary dump JC

@Watchman correction, JJ hasn’t yet produced it but his ceiling is 10 times higher than JCs as a shot creator, passer, defender and scorer.

@Diesel can that also not be attributed to JJ playing in his first postseason compared to JC? And I recall outside of that game 5, JC was a complete non-factor this postseason so it’s not like the bar for JJ was that high. Nonetheless he had more moments this postseason than JC

@Diesel can you elaborate on your JJ take? Yes he came off the bench but it wasn’t like he only played in garbage time. He got quality minutes against NBA rotation players and produced. Sounds like he’s trending upwards to me

I think Hawks fans overvalued John. He’s a dunker who doesn’t handle the ball/shoot well enough to be a true stretch 4 and too small, injury prone and not a good enough interior defender to be am enforcing big. Great guy and I wish him well but this trade only increases our long term roster flexibility necessary to compete. Important to note too that we will only have this exception for the year and either we use it or lose it so there’s definitely another deal on the other side. Maybe for a one year rental?

Trae has his flaws like any player but he is also heads and shoulders our most talented and consistent high end performer. He’s one of the few players in the league who raises the offensive floor of the entire team. That is not debatable and any poster willing to die on that bill loses a lot of credibility in a basketball discussion.

*Deep sigh*

Whitmore is the guy

Dallas can trade Bertans for a pick in a salary dump but we’re stuck with JC’s contract?

Coulibaly at 7 feels rich

How does Trae feel about Capela trade rumors? Didn’t he actively campaign against them moving him in the past?

There is a bit of a misnomer within this convo considering he’s never had an actual offensive coach or system to play within. Since he’s been here the literal offense has been “Give it to Trae” not to mention not playing with a lot Of equally talented players. Nate was not a player or ball movement guy, Lloyd Pierce didn’t offer much of anything at all. So it’s more accurate to say I am interested to see him play within a system. HopefullY it will help him get some easier looks.

If there was ever a time to make a deal for Brown, it’s now. C’s don’t know if they want to pay him, questions about roster construction and long term fit make him about as available as he is going to be.