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That's right. I think the point still stands though. When Rider got here as our, "rebuild" project after our change in philosophy we were done. As for if we should stay put or not I am not saying that we should but I hope that if we do decide to make some changes that they are well calculated. Keep in mind we did once trade Nique for a one year player in Danny Manning.

Throughout this thread there seems to be alot of trade, "Horford for a guy like this" or, "Smith for a guy like that", but it seems like no one really has an idea of what is available. As for blowing up the team let me take you back to a time when we were making it to the second round back in the nineties. We were a consistent good team but we couldn't get over the second round hump. So we played a Knicks team that was the feel good story of the year. A returning Spreewell after the PJ Carlesimo incident and they were the 8th seed. Management decided it was time to, "blow it up" after we lost to the Knicks in the second round and out went class guys like Jim Jackson and in came trash like Isaiah Rider and soon to follow was disappointment after disappointment. Years of low win totals and no hope of ever getting to the playoffs. So throughout this thread people seem to be doubting Sund's ability to judge talent etc etc and with an ownership group in chaos perhaps we may want to just be happy with where we are at since some of us have been down this road before. Having said that I can still see potential in this team. Teague impressed me a great deal with his ability to aggressively get to the hole and I feel that we could do worse then a starting five of: Teague, Hinrich, Johnson, Smith and Horford next year if we had to go that way. If and there are a lot of if's but if we could get Teague and Hinrich and Smith to aggressively go to the hole Johnson and Horford could feed off of that. I think that Larry Drew deserves another year with this team and I do agree that some things need to be tweaked but for everyone wanting a center you need to realize that there isn't much out there.

Funny thing is last night I was thinking about the Stoudemire to GS rumors and I thought, "Smith and Crawford to Phoenix might work well." It gets Phoenix back closer to it's run and gun style that they were successful with before Shaq and it also gives them some flexibility with the Crawford contract I do believe. I would prefer to not have to give up Smith but as the old saying goes, "to get something you have to give something." Just trying to make myself feel better about alternatives though I would certainly give up Marvin, Childress and next years draft (unprotected if needed) to get the deal done. The bad part of the deal either way though is that it's probably going to leave us pretty thing past the starting five. I don't see how we can have much money left over if we get Stoudemire if we go with the latter trade. Wouldn't say that it's not a championship team however.

You can tell that Marvin is much more confident this season compared to previous ones. That shot last night was nothing but clutch and if he can keep up this shooting pace the rest of the year the court should really open up more for Joe and the rest of our cutters. The 3 Marvin hit last season wasn't legit either. It was from halfcourt at the end of a quarter. Good to see that the reports were right on him though because he really has added that 3 to his arsenal and perhaps this season Marvin can take a step towards shutting up those Chris Paul lovers. I admit that I wanted Marvin over CP3 but after the year Paul had last season I was finally thinking that we did make a mistake. Now maybe Marvin can prove me right even after I thought I was wrong.

If Joe Johnson played for one of the big market teams he would be an absolute superstar right now. People may just start noticing this year because it looks like the Hawks may finally be ready to make a run at 50 but the guy has been playing solid since he came here. Scratch that because, "solid" isn't fair...the guy has been amazing. He just keeps taking and making the big shots and scoring night after night after night. He is no doubt the man on this team and hopefully he will start getting his recognition and this year nobody will be able to question his all-star selection. Joe is the man! I can finally admit that no matter what we gave up for Joe it was worth it. After what he did in the playoffs and the past seasons and the first two of this year I am thrilled that he's with us. Right now I would trade him straight up for LBJ or Kobe but I wouldn't give up anything else. I think Joe means just as much to us as those two guys do to their teams. Josh Smith is probably my favorite player and I rarely have favorite players but the guy just plays harder than anyone I have ever seen. He puts his body on the line every single night and I mean he sells it out every single night. His timing is incredible and while he layed an egg in game 7 and that might hold him back in the eyes of others I think he's learned from it and is ready to take another step towards the next level. You have gotta love Josh if you like the Hawks and while Joe is the man Josh may be the heart. I even have to commend Woody on the job that he's done so far this season and while the jury is still out on him so far he's doing his best coaching job and I think saying, "he finally has the right pieces to do the right job" is a valid statement. This is the year that Woody needs to prove himself (year 5) and he's doing it. The two year contract probably really means, "you have one year to make this thing right" and so far he's doing it. Za Za, Josh and Joe get the game balls tonight and it was nice to see Z just step in there and battle and energize this team. I didn't want to see him come off of the court because of the way he was keeping balls alive tonight. It was interesting that Marvin wasn't on the court in crunch time tonight but Flip was. Flip was the man in game one and his scoring punch off of the bench has been and will continue to be needed. Josh who? Flip is a better player than Chillz and he's going to mean more to us than Chillz did so the Hawks payed less money to get more....that's a win for the Hawks. I'll leave you with this. The Hawks have gotten off to solid starts before and lost it so don't blow this out of proportion but be proud of the team because they deserve some serious pats on the back. Love the PA announcer too by the way. He's kind of like the And 1 announcer and I love how he keeps the crowd going and lets you know the game situations. I just wish that Steve Smith was still with us because I loved hearing Smitty and Dominique commentate together.

Sorry but I have zero faith in Kwame. The guy has been known to have a bad attitude since day one and he hasn't proven anyone wrong. He has small hands and he's soft down low. He's a big man that wants to play like a three.

It's exciting considering that as of right now we don't have any picks in this years draft to think that we may still get some fresh players on the roster for next year. I wonder when Cenk Akyol will come over.

Quote: Not really. It just takes more than giving a few minutes of energy over a season to get me excited over a player. Again, there is a reason nobody other than the people on this board seem to think Mario is anything special. He is not very good or very skilled. That's why he doesn't get to play and that's why he probably wouldn't be in the NBA if it wasn't for the Hawks. Not sure what you were looking at but I can't understand how you didn't notice the offense flowing more smoothly with Mario West in there. Is it just coincidence that with Mario in there they scored 40 in the first. To you I guess it was. Mario West out hustled everyone in the 1st quarter and if you don't want that on the floor I guess you may be Mike Woodsen. If it were up to me Marvin would be coming off of the bench or Marvin would be at the 4 with Josh hurting and seeming unable to lay off of the outside shot but Mario West makes something happen every single time he gets out there and if others outside of ATL don't see what the big fuss is about West then I can't say that I blame them since you really have to pay attention to the Hawks to ever see him getting any PT. The guy is a pro, he's always ready to play and if you watch you will see that almost every time he is the 1st guy off of the bench to greet a player coming off of the floor during a TO. How many players have you heard of that were vouched for by their teammates? The Hawks team went to Knight and Woodson and said, "you better not cut this guy." That says volumes and alot more than you have said.

I'm interested in Ratliff but it was a buyout so I'm pretty sure he's looking to catch on with a winner and not a team in chaos trying to figure out how to win.

I could propose a million deals from my own head but what I am saying is that I feel that we are giving up too much for just Bibby. It's 1/3 of our team gone. Bibby has been injury plagued and unproductive for a while now. Maybe if this deal included Brad Miller I would be excited but that's not what's happening.

Why are we giving up Lue and Williams in this deal? It seems that Sacramento has been looking to deal Bibby for a while now and Lue is a part of our rotation. I don't like us giving up his sound decision making and points off of the bench or giving up on Williams so soon after we used a high pick on him. However this does do one thing and that's tighten the rotation more so that Salim and Acie can get more playing time possibly but right now both seem to be low on confidence.