troubleman

I like Horford, especially after he measured 6'10".

Mr IP Address said my analogy was stupid, but then turns around and says OJ was innocent. Is he actually comparing a man who was on trial for murder, with a man who has not been charged with anything? Oh Boy!!!!!!!!!

Quote: Go root for him. You kind of disgust me with your tacit support of this activity. Hopefully, you will understand when I tell you that I don't give a rat's a** if I disgust you are not. Hopefully you don't give a rat's a** if you disgust me. You're an ip address, a simple name on a messageboard. Who gives a sh*t if we disgust each other. Quote: Unlike the Vick nut suckers, I believe that if a man is involved in the culture, owns the house where 60+ dogs are found, is being investigated by the FBI, and has failed to say he is appalled at dogfighting or that he is innocent of any allegations against him, is not worthy of being the QB for our team. Great, that is one man's opinion. You are entitled to that, and I'm sure Michael Vick will cry in bed at night because you believe he is not worthy to qb the Atlanta Falcons. lol Quote: I don't care if we went 15 - 1. We will never respect him. I don't root for people that I can't respect. If you do, I hope you don't have children. Who is this "we"? Again Mr. IP Address, I don't give a damn what you "hope". Quote: Please explain how Vick could not have any knowledge of this situation. Unlike you, I let the facts play themselves out. I'm not law enforcement, a judge, or a DA. So, I don't give a sh*t enough to explain how he could not have knowledge of the situation. Quote: Even if somehow Vick is innocent, I still don't want him as a player for the Falcons. His decision making skills are terrible. Yeah, this organization is a well oiled machine. When Vick came to the Falcons his decision making turned them into a horrible organization. Oops, I forgot, we are talking about one of the worst organizations in Pro Football. Quote: He bought a million dollar house and never goes there? It is insulting to me and everyone on this board to suggest that. But that is exactly what you and Hawkfanatic are doing. Actually, I'm not suggesting anything except letting the facts play out. There is a reason why nobody has been charged yet. Quote: What is so hard? He raises the dogs. 66 dogs will be killed from his house. Dog fighting evidence has been found at the residence. What dog fighting evidence? The treadmill? Blood "spatter" on a piece of carpet? GTFOH Quote: He just happens to raise the kinds of dogs found to have been fighting in a mansion he owns in his hometown, where I assume he had no other residences. And you say to wait for more information. What a joke? The joke is, you "assume" he has no other residence in his hometown, but you are not willing to wait for the facts. lol You sir, are a joke. lol Quote: Grow up. He did it. This is no about innocent until proven guilty, it's about the murder of dogs and being associated with it. Culturally or actively. Of course there is no innocent until proven guilty, when you are a Michael Vick hater. lol You hate a man you probably have never met, but we need to grow up? LMAO Quote: You guys are pathetic. Again, we need to grow up? LMAO.

Great, another unidentified source. Let me make this perfectly clear for you all, if Vick is convicted then f*ck him, and I'll root for the next Atlanta Falcon qb. If he lines up behind the center in September, then that's good too. Unlike the Vick haters around the country, I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Quote: Quote: It was a dumbass pick. It was dumb then,It's dumb now, and it will forever be viewed as dumb. Until he gets a starting quality pg on this team, he will be dumped on by the fans and media. Hindsight. Again, as this year that draft was viewed as a two horse race (did I say race?). The entire NBA nation had Bogut-Marvin as 1-2 or 2-1. BK can redeem himself this off-season. Hindsight for some of you and the media, but I know I wasn't one of those who saw it as a 2 horse(player) race.

Quote: One of his closest friends said he did it. You have to make the choice to assume that his friend was either lying or incorrect to not believe what was said. You can't say you are standing on the middle ground when your statements very strongly imply that you believe he is innocent. Where did one of Michael Vick's closest friends say he did it? Link please?

Quote: or can you just not see because of MV's nuts in your face? Nah, but I know I'm not blinded by hatred, as apparently you are. I can honestly say that I have never hated a person I have never met. Quote: Mike Vick is the problem. So says the sports fan who needs the media spinners to validate his opinion of a person he probably has never met. Quote: I'm real glad for you. I don't care how many of your business cards his "posse" let you give him. I hope you guys go build dog cages together or something. Couldn't care less if you are happy for me or not. Quote: What is so difficult to understand? Your idiotic ramblings Quote: Your Kerney analogy is stupid. Just like Hawkfanatic's Duke one. Of course it is, just like your apparent hatred of a professional athlete. Quote: If you are going to defend him, you better be prepared to defend the dog fighting culture and people. He's one of them. I'll keep that in mind. Anything else, you want to give me advice on? Quote: I'm still waiting to hear Mr.Vick say that dog fighting is horrible and not something he would watch or enjoy. I'm waiting on Beyonce to propose to me, but we don't get everything we want. Quote: Grow up. We got screwed as Falcons fans. Deal with it. Beside the point but, would you defend him if he played for someone else? Yeah, sort of like how I defended Shaq when the media said he would never win a championship. Never played for any of my favorite teams, but I defended him anyway. I grew up a long time ago, right about the time I realized people are innocent until proven guilty and also when I stopped relying on the media to tell me what is right and wrong. We have one poster relying on ProFootballTalk.com for information, and another poster who is telling me the Miami PD lied about testing the water bottle. lol Honestly I don't give a sh*t what Mike Vick or any other professional athlete does in their private lives. That's between them, god, and if it's illegal, the law. I'm laughing at your "we got screwed as Falcons fans" comment. Like the Falcons haven't been screwing their fans for 40+ years. It's all Michael Vick's fault that the Falcons are one of the worst franchises in the NFL. It all started when he was drafted. It was all downhill from there. I check the record books, and all I see is success. The Falcons have a history like the Dallas Cowboys or Pittsburgh Steelers. lol Some of the fans in this city are jokes. So desperate to win, they abuse the only good players they have. Yeah, I still remember a good portion of this city was all for trading D. Wilkins when it happened, but now EVERYBODY was so against the trade. Talk to me when the Falcons decide to build a team. Talk to me when they decide maybe we should upgrade this offensive line. Or maybe we shouldn't have a former offensive lineman as our receivers coach. When Michael Vick is given the tools to succeed like any other qb on a "good" team, then and only then can you fairly judge his play on the field. As far as that off the field crap, you do the worrying for both or us, because I don't give a sh*t.

Quote: Actually it does. He spends a lot of time at center where his opponents per is much lower. And they use him primarily for his help D. If you watched them play you would know that their entire defensive scheme is based on funneling any driving player towards Duncan. That is why opponents score 6.6 fewer ppg when Duncan is playing, even though they are a good defensive team without him. Thanks Stat guy. Fortunately, I don't need stats to prove to me that Duncan is a good defender. Simply using him to prove that the opponent PER stat is flawed. The Pistons are a good defensive team right? So using your logic, shouldn't Wallace have a good opponent PER? How about the Bulls? Good defensive team right? Shouldn't Ben Wallace have a good opponent PER?

Quote: Yes, your post was sad. Really. You Vick nut huggers crack me up. That couldn't have been his weed in the hidden compartment. I'm sure he didn't even know he had a hidden compartment. I'm sure Vick didn't know about the dog fighting that was going on at his house. I'm sure his ole pal that ratted him out was just making stuff up. I'm sure that when Vick flipped off the entire dome that made it easier to excuse since it wasn't just a single fan he flipped off, only every Falcons fan in attendance. Yeah, he is a class act, just like his little brother the nut stomper rapist. Great family the Vicks are. Now, I'm a Vick Hugger? GFTOH. What weed in the hidden compartment? Oh, the one that the Miami PD tested, and said wasn't weed? Then again, I guess Arthur Blank paid them off. lol I don't know what you are talking about, when you say Vick's friend ratted him out. Is that one of the "un-named sources"? Yeah, Vick flipped me off when I met him at the Pro Bowl in Hawaii too. He was probably flicking those fans off at the airport after the 10 hour flight, but then again kinda hard to do that when he was signing autographs while waiting for his luggage. Took my brothers business card too, despite the fact one of his "posse" said he shouldn't. Yeah, he is a horrible person. Using your logic, I should hate Patrick Kerney too, since he owned a home, better yet was asleep in a home were a rape took place. I should hate Matt Schaub too, since he was arrested for assualt a couple of years ago. How dare he defend himself. Nah, the "vick huggers" aren't the problem, it's the Vick haters who like to twist things to fit their arguments that are the problem.

Quote: The Hawks are a bad defensive team, as you pointed out, so that works against him. He is 20 which also works against him as far as knowing how to play D, knowing the rotations, etc. Plus he is weak and can be overpowered. However he has good footspeed and is able to keep guys in front of him, even when he gets switched onto pgs. But you said Marvin is a good defender, right? Being on a good defensive team doesn't work for Duncan? Can you explain the PER to me once more? Quote: So naturally the answer is to take one of the best shotblockers in the league and put him on the perimeter while bringing in a guy who can't defend in the Chinese league. OK You go me there. lol One things is for certain, they need to improve the frontcourt, because right now it's not working. Quote: We know that Smith had his best production at the 4 spot. I can't because we don't know how much he was affected by the injury earlier in the season. I don't know if it was the move to the 4 or the the recovery from the injury, plus another year of NBA experience. I also know that Josh had some pretty good games at the 3 in 2005/06. Quote: I agree, as far as i am concered Zaza is nothing but a backup. They need a defensive upgrade at center in the worst way. As a side note i think Solomon could be very effective as a backup 4. He might be as good a shotblocker as Smith. I agree with you to an extent. I'm not as down on Zaza as you are, but his lack of athleticism concerns me. Solo was one of the great picks by BK.

Quote: Yes, donation is donation and all donations are good. I suppose I am simply tired of hearing about the real Vick and about every way that he disgusts me, especially the dog fighting. Him flipping off the fans and not taking accountability for his off-field actions don't make me appreciate him any more either. <b>Call me deranged but if my alma mater had something horribly tragic happen and I made as much money as Vick with his contract, endorsements, money from dog fighting, etc.</b> I have no doubt that I would actually make a donation that could make an impact, not a guilt donation like "Mr 10k" has become infamous for making. So you are one of the "guilty" until proven innocent people huh? At this point Vick has not been linked to dog fighting, except by the media and people like you. Also I wish people would stop saying he "flipped off the fans" nonsense, like Vick stood at the 50 yard line and flipped off the entire dome. I've been a season ticket holder since 1996, and I didn't take it personal. If my receivers and offensive line performed poorly in a game, and some drunken a** decided to take out their frustration on me, I'm not certain that "fan" wouldn't have received a finger too. The donation topic is dumb as well. If I've just lost my son or daughter in a tragedy like the Va. Tech massacre, I wouldn't give a sh*t how much money was donated and by whom. It's not bringing them back, so why are people around the country, who didn't lose a love one, so concerned about the amount given by Vick? If you don't like Vick, that is fine. If you think he is overrated as a qb, that's fine too. But some of the stuff I read in the media and on messageboards like this is amazing to me. Sad really.

Quote: My point is you don't know Yi. How can any self respecting poster crow about wanting a guy you have never seen play in a game? I LMAO at the people who are all over Yi as the next great Dirk or International savior. You don't know Yi and yet you defend his selection to the depths. There is something a little crazy about that position. Now, if he blows people away in workouts and becomes a huge buzz because he outplays other top players in workouts then that could change things. I am still for Conley either way but, based on evidence, supporting Yi is a defensible position. Right now, every poster who is advocating drafting Yi is doing so based on blind faith. You have watched him dunk on pitiful competition on Youtube. This whole Yi stuff is pure nonsense. We have all wanted a young franchise PG to take the helm of this team and now that we have a chance to take a great athlete with brains and a real PG mentality...some want to grab another forward. And, as if that isn't crazy enough, they want to take a player they have never actually ever seen play, based on Chad Ford and Youtube. That is the epitome of irrational fan behavior...with a twist of stupidity. If you railed against BK for taking a forward last year without even working out SW, then how can you be an advocate of taking a player nobody on this board has ever even seen play a game? I said this in an earlier post: The Hawks have two lottery picks, so not taking Conley is not the end of the world. The Hawks are still a bad team, which means taking the BPA. If that is Conley, then fine. If that is Yi, I'm fine with that too. Unlike many of you, I'm not stuck on this one guy bandwagon right now. I've stated several times that my mind can change, but I will say that you can save your keystrokes and insults, because you won't be the one changing it. I've watched enough basketball in my life where I don't need you, Chad Ford, and all the other "expert" opinions to make a decision on who I want. I watched Shelden Williams for 4 years at Duke, and once I saw his measurements I knew at that point that I didn't want him. As far as my defending Yi, I can do that for the very same reason that people are against him. You all have not seen him play either. So you can rely on the negative aspects and not want him, but I can't rely on the positive aspects and want him? GTFOH. I respect the posts of many of the Squawkers, including Exodus, and I like debating those who like to use "stats" to prove their point.

Quote: Josh cannot defend the 3 worth a crap. Because he shoots too many 3's people assume he is more cut out for SF. WRONG!!! He is weak guarding SF's away from the basket. Well, I don't assume he is a 3 because he shoots 3's. Da hell kinda logic is that. According to the stat man (exodus), Marvin is pretty weak at guarding 3's. So what is he? Quote: This Yi crap makes me sick. It would be one thing if people had seen him play ONE GAME. A few highlights and we have to draft our 12th forward. EVERYBODY said PG on here all year and now all I hear is another forward. BK is not the only one with his head up his ass. The Hawks have two lottery picks, so not taking Conley is not the end of the world. The Hawks are still a bad team, which means taking the BPA. If that is Conley, then fine. If that is Yi, I'm fine with that too.

Quote: And yet you automatically assume he will get stronger and better, but Marvin won't. marvin is 2 years younger than Yi and doesn't struggle defensively at the 3 in the NBA. Wow, Marvin's Opponent PER is 17.2 at the 3 position, but he doesn't struggle. Maybe I'm not understanding it, so can you break it down for me again? This is also a part of what I said about Marvin: Again, that doesn't mean that Marvin might not be the better player in a year or two, but right now Smith is better. Quote: Yi could very easily be a bust. If he was as productive as Durant i would have no problem bringing him in to replace Marvin. But that isn't the case. You are right, Yi could easily be a bust. Like so many other highly touted College, High School, and foreign kids. Wouldn't shock me at all, but as of 05/26/07, I'm willing to take that risk. Doesn't mean my mind won't change before the draft. Quote: If your argument was against Marvin why have you been railing against smith? My argument has been against Smith at the 4, not against Smith the basketball player. Again, Smith brings more to the table than Marvin at this point. Quote: We know that Smith had his best production at the 4 spot. We also know that Smith isn't quick enough to guard the 3 spot. He gets beat off the dribble too easily. Plus he led the league in blocks so it only makes sense to have him near the basket. How many players in the NBA at the 3 don't get beat off the dribble easily? The NBA has screwed with the rules so much, that a team like the Hawks, with only one legit shotblocker in the starting lineup, is doomed defensively. Quote: The Hawks problems are at center and the point . They don't have anyone on the roster who can guard the 5 or play the point effectively on offense. As I have stated several times, it's Zaza or Smith. They cannot play the majority of the minutes at the 4 and the 5 together. The Hawks are going to be a bad defensive team because of it. Quote: Yi addresses neither problem and even if he does turn out better than Marvin it is highly unlikely that the gap will be big enough to justify taking him at 3. I feel it is better for the Hawks as a team in the long run. Hey, I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong, but I've been right about the Hawks moves more than not.

Quote: Why are you harping on Smiths defense while at the same time saying we should draft a guy who can't guard players in the Chinese league? Smith is a terrible low post defender, but it's not about him. I want to replace Marvin Williams, not Josh Smith. Josh Smith simply brings more to the table at this point than Marvin. Again, that doesn't mean that Marvin might not be the better player in a year or two, but right now Smith is better. Yi struggles defensively in the Chinese League because he is weak. As I stated earlier, he needs to get stronger, which I believe will make him a better defender. Not a great defender, but a better defender.

Quote: I will attempt to explain opponents per to you but i really don't expect you to understand it. Lets say player A is an average defender. An average PER is 15 so if player A is playing on an average defensive team that would mean his opponents PER would be around 15. Now lets put him on the Spurs. Now that the team around Player A is better than makes it tougher for the guy he is guarding to score. Therefore his opponents PER would be well below 15. Conversely if Player A is on a bad defensive team (like the Hawks) that makes it easier for the guy he is guarding to score. Therefore his opponents PER would be well above 15. The weak defense surrounding Smith on the Hawks makes his opponents PER higher than it would be on a good defensive team. To make a long story short you have it completely backwards. Ok, I get it. Duncan's opponent PER is 17 at pf position, and the Spurs are a better defensive team than the Hawks, so Josh Smith is a better defensive 4 than Tim Duncan. Thanks Bro. I'm not a stat guy, but I believe I will get it with your help.

Quote: Dude 10k to Vick is like 5 bucks to most people. Go read <b>ProFootballTalk.com</b> sometime and see how many articles there are that talk about Vick and his "contributions" which are never more than him trying to fix his "image". You lost when you mentioned the National Enquirer of football websites.

Quote: One of the draftees come out and blow everyone away to the point that Portland/Seattle think about trading down. Do you see anyone who could do that? Possibly Yi? Ain't going to happen.

Quote: Quote: We have A LOT of options! This doesn't bode well for BK. That's one reason I wanted the #1 or 2 (obviously because of Oden/Durant), but more importantly it would give BK a no-brainer decision. I don't want BK having options, he tends to pick the worst one. I was pissed when we didn't get the #1 or #2, because there are too many variables involved with pick #3.

Quote: Again that is ignorant. Who do you think held Dwight Howard in check when he played the Hawks? Zaza? No, Jameer Nelson and Carlos Arroyo did a good job of holding him in check. Quote: Your insistence that he is a terrible post defender means that either -you don't watch the games. -you don't know basketball. -you argument is so weak that you are looking for something to cling to so you won't look so clueless. It's all of the above. Quote: Smith will never be the man defender that the Wallaces are and he can certainly do a better job of denying initial post position. but he is far from a terrible post defender. You have nothing to back up that nonsense. Nothing like stats?

Quote: He's one of the better defenders on a bad defensive team, so wouldn't that mean that his position isn't in the most pressing need of an upgrade? No, it wouldn't, but I've also stated several times that either the 4 or the 5 need to be upgraded. It doesn't matter which one, but one needs to be upgraded. Jeez!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote: Calling him a "terrible" post defender is flat out dumb. I would guess you saw about 5 Hawks games last year. Ignoring that bullsh*t.

Quote: Nobody knows for sure if Yi will be a better 4 than Smith. We do know that Smith is already very productive at the 4 and is only 21. The only justification for picking Yi is if he is a safe bet to be significantly better than Smith at the 4 (just like Durant is obviously better than Marvin at the 3). If he can't defend the post better than Smith that is one more reason not to pick him. I believe in drafting the player with the biggest upside, but I also understand that there is no such thing as a sure thing when it comes to the draft. I can't remember the last time I was wrong about a Hawk's draft pick, but I'm sure it's happened. My mind can change, but as of today 05/25/07, I want Yi.

Thanks stat guy. I'm sure Josh Smith's Opponent PER would be pretty good, especially when he is one of the better defenders on a pretty bad defensive team. It still doesn't take away from the fact that he is a terrible post defender, who makes up for it with weakside shot blocking ability.

Quote: I didn't think you would have a comeback for that since you were making absolutely no sense. Yeah, you got me. Josh Smith is not a terrible post defender at this point in his career, and Yi will never be a better 4 than Josh Smith. You are 100% correct, bro.

Quote: Dirk is 7'0", does that help his defense? Nope, but it doesn't hurt either. Also doesn't hurt that he has Diop and Dampier next to him either. Quote: Ben Wallace: 6'7 Zaza: 6'11 Sheed: 6'11 Smith: 6'9 We still have the advantage over Detroit's championship team, since the only thing that matters to you is SIZE in the frontcourt. It's not the only thing that matters to me, but it has been proven that it works more times than not. Quote: PJ Brown only plays 20 minutes per game. Chicago also plays Tyrus (who is 6'8) and Ben together. Atl's frontcourt is bigger than both of them, and WAY bigger than GS or PHX's, except when GS puts in Biedrins. Kurt Thomas is only 6'9. Thanks, for proving me wrong. I retract my statement. GS, Phoenix, Chicago, and Detroit are able to get away with playing an undersized 4 and 5. Quote: I still agree that we need an upgrade, but it needs to come at the center position, unless you want to bench Marvin and move Smith to the SF. It needs to come at either center or power forward. I don't care how it's done, it just needs to be done. I'm not convinced that Marvin or Smooth will be the answers at their positions. Quote: It's good to know that you're on the BK bandwagon of drafting a forward at all costs. I've already spoken my piece on how I feel about Billy Knight's drafting. I'm not on anyone's bandwagon. I know for a fact that this team is flawed, and not just at the 1 and the 5.