troubleman

What I don't understand is Diesel likes to point out Bogut's collge experience, or lack of big game experience, but that doesn't stop people from going crazy over the high school kids, who are 2 years younger. Bogut's biggest weakness is his lateral quickness, and it's not even as bad as some of you all believe. I also don't understand how people want to sign "potential" like Dalembert, Kwame, and Stromile Swift, who have shown flashes but haven't been consistent performers in their careers, but want to pass on the potential of Bogut.

Quote: I compared their lateral quickness (toni and Bogut) they both lack it and they both suffer on defense because of it. Yeah, but because of their positions one will suffer more than the other. Quote: Also, you say that it doesn't matter for the 4, 5 as much.. That's TOTAL BS!! As a person who played the 5, let me tell you that defense at the 5 is ALL footwork. A 5 has to be able to slide, move, body up, keep his position and when the ball is rotated, he has to be able to rotate with it. You guys thought that Deke was dominating because he could block shots, but you missed that he had excellent footwork. He was quick enough to slide to where the ball was rotated and be in position to block the shot. Not true at all. Centers and power forwards are not required to have great lateral quickness, because the area they defend (the majority of the time) is a lot smaller than 1's, 2's, and 3's. Of course they have to be able to rotate, but again the area is smaller. Your comparison to Drobs was so offbase, it's borderline ridiculous. Quote: Bogut doesn't have lateral quickness. He gets abused by faster players. In the NBA, when the ball is rotated, he will be as effective as Drobs. AND Desire does not make up the difference. Most true centers get abused by faster players. That's why the pick and roll is so popular, because most times you will get a matchup that favors the offensive players. If Deke is switched against McGrady, hell even a guy like Dion Glover, they will go around him because he is not quick enough to guard those guys. Quote: The comparison with Khandi was right on and here is why. Coming out of college, Khandi had dominated the competition he faced. He went to a small school in a lowly conference too.. For that reason you could put Foyle in that mix too. Foyle's senior year: 24.4 ppg, 14.3 rpg, 6.4 bpg. Olowakhandi's Senior year: 22.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 2.9 bpg. Nowhere is there a desire stat and you can only make a determination about Olowakhandi's and Foyle's desire AFTER the fact... Because while playing in college they both looked like they had great desire to make it as pros. It's offbase, because the only thing keeping Olowakhandi from being a good center in the NBA is his desire. He has the skills to perform at a decent level, but he is lazy. I didn't see Olowakhandi in college, so I could not make my own judgement (not some website or scouts judgement) on his desire in college. I'm sure he showed signs, but many people overlook it because they see other things they love. And let me go on record right now and say that I don't believe that Bogut will be a great defender, but I do believe he will surpass the expectations of some of his detractors on this board. Bogut has proven in college and international play that he has the desire. I'm not even going to discuss Foyle, because he has never, even in college, had the offensive skills of Bogut. I've seen Paul (who has been abused by bigger guards), D Williams, and Marvin Williams mentioned because of their "upside", but I find it strange that some people do not see the same upside in Bogut. People mention lateral quickness, which is only one aspect of a defenders game. You, and others, need to realize that one player does not make or break a great defensive team. The Hawks with Deke were a pretty good defensive team, despite the fact that Laettner and Henderson were not good defenders at the 4 spot. San Antonio is a great defensive team despite the fact that Rasho and Nazr are not good defenders. Hell, Detroit is a great defensive team, but Rip Hamilton is not a great defender. Most great defensive teams have 3 or more players that are good defenders on the court and the others simply buy into the philosophy.

I had to comment on this Toni Kukoc stuff. How in the world are you comparing a slow footed sf to a center? Lacking lateral quickness at the 1,2, or 3 spots will make a terrible defender, but it's not as big of a deal at the 4 or 5. The one place it might hurt is the pick and roll, but that goes for just about any center in the league (key point is "just about"). Also your comparison of Kandi Man and Bogut is offbase, because Kandi-Man has always lacked desire. He has the skills to perform at a good level, but he vanishes after the 1st quarter. Bogut doesn't have that problem. Kaman will be solid center in the league if he can stay healthy, but he does not have the offensive tools of Bogut. Pryzbilla was not a big scorer in college, but his rebounding and blocked shots have carried over. Honestly, I would love to have Bogut because he will solve a big problem on this Hawks team. Guys like Kwame Brown, Stromile Swift, and Tyson Chandler (hell throw in Dalembert), have done nothing in their careers to make me believe they have a bigger upside than Bogut.

What is this fascination with Chris Duhon? The guy shot 35% from the field, averaged 6 pts, and dished out 5 dimes in 26 minutes a game. I know he is part of a Bulls team that is making a playoff run, but please don't over-inflate his value. I personally don't see anything special about his game that would make me say damn Billy really screwed up that pick, unlike taking Diaw over Josh Howard which still has me scratching my head. With the right picks over the next couple of years, the Hawks will be playoff ready. I have stated this before, and apparently some people didn't get the memo, but the Hawks have only been "rebuilding" since the Reef/Theo trade. Before that, the Hawks always thought they were a playoff caliber team, which is why they always felt they could add a piece.

Quote: Bogut finished with 20 points and 12 rebounds, right at his season averages, but he made just 8 of 19 shots and 4 of 11 free throws. The contender for National Player of the Year honors had been shooting 62.5 percent from the field. Yeah, and if I remember correctly Bogut started the game 2-11 or something like that, BUT he was able to solve whatever problem the Kentucky big people were giving him and had an overall good game. Except for his free throw shooting of course. If I can play gm for a moment, I would take a big man over a similar little man anyday of the week. For some reason people seem to believe that Bogut is a finished product, when he is actually far from comlete. I like how some people on this board like to point to one or two questionable performances by Bogut, but will overlook the one or two questionable performances by Paul. I would be happy with either player, but if I'm Billy Knight I'm looking at the Hawks lack of rebounding big people and I'm taking Bogut.

I agree. Baron Davis is young, athletic, and a very good player. On the flip side, he does take bad shots and seems to be injury prone, but I would have taken a chance on him. I'm sure New Orleans would have taken A. Walker for him, but Billy Knight either wasn't interested in Baron or wanted to make sure Walker went to a contender.

Yeah but for the kind of money Kenyon Martin is making I want more than 19/9/2. Even those numbers are kind of inflated, because he seems to be more of a 17/7/2 guy. Martin is a good help defender, but I have yet to see anything great about his one-on-one defense. Overall that is just too much to give for Martin. Heck I would rather have Walker over him.

Hell no, I would not do that trade. When did K-Mart become worth all of that? The only advantage he has on Harrington is athleticism. He cannot create his own shot, which is an advantage that Harrington has on him. Martin is overhyped, and I'm so happy that he did not sign with the Hawks in the offseason.

Quote: Sure... There are trade offs, but then you got to look at what you're trading. For instance... Let's work with your theory here.... If you werer coaching the Spurs... Would you put these guys on the floor at the same time: Nesterovich/Nazr M/Tim Duncan/Robert Horry/Brent Barry... Think about it... Your shortest play is 6'7" all guys are specialized. Horry can shoot like a SG. Nazr can rebound like a PF. Duncan can play the SF as easily as he plays the PF. The trade off you're getting is that you lose a little Speed but you get a huge Size difference that will overwhelm whoever you're playing.. Would you do it? Why not? No, I wouldn't do it, because who is going to handle the ball? Brent Barry sucks at trying to play point. When he is doubled who is going to bring the ball up the court and start the play, Horry? lol Nazr and Rasho have bricks in their shoes. Duncan would spend most of the night in foul trouble, because he cannot guard the quicker smaller forwards. That lineup is horrible, and it is a totally different scenerio than what is being discussed here.

Quote: Al is ..a 3/4 tweener..Can play offensively at either, defensively at neither. Al should be at best a 3rd option on a good team Al is a good enough defender to play either position. The problem with the Hawks is they don't have a shotblocker (besides Josh Smith). Quote: Chills is..a natural 3, has a nice post game, is an excellent slasher, an excellent rebounder and has a so so shot..Keep reading posts that he can practice and improve his shot. That is true, barely..If practice could make you a great shooter then many guys would be Reggie Miller like.. Childress does not have to become a Reggie Miller shooter in order to become a good shooting guard. Rip Hamilton is a very good shooting guard, yet his three point percentage is horrible. Quote: Smoove...can jump, can dunk, has great timing on blocks...and thats it..He can't shoot, he can't handle the ball..He has no offensive game to speak of. He will improve, he needs alot of time, I don't see him being a superstar...Unless... He plays the 4..His lack of offense away from the basket won't hurt him as much at the 4. It will enhance his natural defensive abilities Josh Smith has the potential to be a superstar at the 3 simply because he is 18-19 years old with plenty of time to develope his game, and he is left handed which makes him a nightmare for most defenders. Smith needs to work on his jumper, strength, and his dribbling in order to become a great player. It is much too early to determine what type of player Josh Smith will become, because we don't know what kind of determination or work ethic he has.

Quote: I don't doubt Detroit. I think ultimately that they will defend their championship. Even against the Spurs. BUT.... Boston could give them trouble. Look at the matchups... Who stops Pierce? Who stops Pierce? The Detroit Pistons excellent help defense will slow down Pierce. I also look for Tayshaun to give Pierce problems with his long arms. Boston is no more a contender than Milwaukee was last season. I'll take Washington, Miami, and Detroit over the Celtics.

What people need to understand is, this is only year 2 of the rebuilding process. Trading Reef, Hendu, Theo, JT, Rasheed, and Walker keeps us from being a losing team and over the cap, which is what the Hawks were from 1999-2004. Like the previous poster stated, the Hawks always believed they were one player away from making the playoffs, but honestly they were a shooting guard a legit point guard, bench, and small forward away from making the playoffs. The Hawks traded draft picks because they felt they were one player away, when in hindsight those draft picks would have kept them from being the lousy team they are right now. The traded picks, coupled with the wasted picks from the 90's is the main reason why the transition from Smitty, Mookie, and Deke was so poor. Billy Knight and Hawks mgmt is doing it the right way. The Hawks have to be a bad team now, because of all the mistakes that were made by the previous regime. There is no way the Hawks should have traded two 1st round picks for Lorenzen Wright. There is no way the Hawks should have blown picks on Doug Edwards and others. There is no way the Hawks should have traded a pick for Big Dog. There is no way that Cal Bowdler should have been a first round pick. You are right in stating that none of the top free agents will want to sign here, but Billy Knight is acquiring young players via the draft, who in a couple of years (hopefully) will become special, and at that time guys like Chris Bosh might want to sign here. At least right now, they are able to contribute, which can't be said for Doug Edwards and Cal Bowdler, plus some of the other bad picks that I have forgotten. Thank god.

I hope Googs apologized to Ivey, because K-Mart was his man on the play. As far as trading for Kenyon Martin, I don't believe he is an upgrade over Al Harrington. They are both undersized power forwards. Harrington has a much better offensive game, with Kenyon getting the nod on defense.

I believe the problem with Josh Smith is he has hit that rookie wall. I also believe he doesn't have enough experience to handle the expectations bestowed upon him after his slam dunk contest performance. Smith needs to work on his strength, ballhandling, and outside shot in the offseason. I think experience will help him handle guys like Melo in the future

Yeah, and I still say he cannot play the point fulltime, which is why many people here still want to draft a point guard in the first round. I never stated that Diaw doesn't have a future here. I'm not one of the people who are always looking to trade the guy, but it is my opinion that he is better suited as a forward.

I agree bad job by Ainge, but the Celtics did make the playoffs last season, and Marcus Banks is still with the team. Other than that, great post. lol

Banks is still with the Celtics. He is not playing a lot, because he has sucked this season.

It's on ESPN.

Quote: Not only was he a decent PG, he was an outstanding penetrator, a solid passer, a good playmaker, and one of the best defenders in the league. Though those Hawks weren't flashy, they were absolutely tremendous on the defensive end. That's the one thing they had going and they were anchored by Mook and Deke. Mook's biggest drawback was his penchant for launching the ball at the arc on the break...or just whenever he felt like it. Actually Mookie couldn't penetrate to save his life. That's why he was always jacking up three's, because he rarely beat anyone off the dribble. He was good in all of the other areas that you mentioned.

Quote: Trading a low round pick like a 5th or 6th (conditionally based on performance) is not a huge risk when you consider the talent that he has. I wouldnt trade for that piece of trash, but there is supposedly mutual interest between the 2 parties and Davis is notorious for making stupid deals, so we shall see what happens. I disagree with you on the risk factor, because depth can be added with 5th or 6th round picks, IF (and that's a big IF) a team is smart. I agree with you regarding Al Davis. I was born and lived in the Bay Area for 15 years. I was a huge Raider fan, until they decided to move to LA despite the support they received from the fans in the Bay Area. It just so happens that a year or two after they moved to LA, I moved to Atlanta and have been a Falcon fan every since. Davis is a greedy piece of you-know-what, who still thinks that he can remain competitive by signing old retreads and has beens, along with a malcontent or two. I wouldn't be surprised if he traded for Ricky Williams. And I also wouldn't be surprised if Ricky Williams played a season or two with the Raiders, but I guarantee that he complains about his contract or playing time.

Quote: Well this gives them a great WR duo. Porter isn't a true #1, but now he is gonna be lining up against a teams #2 corner, which will make them very dangerous. Yeah, and they still do not have a dependable running back. Plus, their defense is still old. Oakland had the 30th ranked defense, and the 32 ranked rushing attack. Sorry, but Randy Moss will not fix those problems. Quote: Also, there might still be a chance that they trade for Ricky Williams with a low draft choice and he would complete their offense. Which is a bigger risk than trading for Randy Moss. And again you are talking about trading draft picks, which when used correctly can be very beneficial, especially for a team like the Raiders. Ricky Williams is not dependable, and the Raiders would be foolish to trade for him.

Quote: the worst part is that they only save $2 million on the cap due to Moss's guaranteed money. That stinks for them. Oakland only has to pay him 7.25 million. The Viking are willing to eat that $5 million, because they are approx $30 million under the cap. This deal is a win/win for the Vikings. 2 first round picks and cap space?!?! They have so many options it is unreal. On the flipside, what in the hell are the Raiders thinking? The Raiders need much more than Randy Moss before they compete for a championship. When the team is 5-9 (staring at a 5-11 season), I can only imagine what kind of hell is going to break loose in that locker room.