troubleman

Quote: Quote: Is Smith a great post defender now? Was I wrong? Is English your second language or something? You said Smith was a terrible post defender which is flat out ignorant. Then you try to say i am claiming he is a great post defender. WTF Quote: Did I say Yi is a better post defender than Smith? No you said you want to draft Yi and that he will be significantly better than Smith. It would be hard for Yi to be significantly better than Smith if he is a worse post defender. I guess that logic probably escapes you. I'm done with it. Save the internet insults for those who can't debate without using them.

Quote: I am reposting this since you probably didn't see my edit. Quote: And lets not forget if we draft Yi that will be the 3rd year in a row we have drafted a player in the top 5 to compete with Smith for minutes. That goes back to my point about Billy Knight. His drafts over the last two seasons, especially the Marvin Williams pick, have set this team back. Unfortunately, the Hawks cannot afford to allow those "mistakes" to force them to go against taking the better prospect out of Conley, Yi, or whoever. I must stress this, because if you say something about Marvin you are automatically this Marvin hater. I believe Marvin is going to be a good NBA Player, but I truly doubt his impact on a team will be bigger than Paul or Deron. I was never convinced Marvin had the biggest upside in the draft, because the 2 and the 3 are the easiest positions to fill on a basketball team. Outside of Josh Smith, I have not agreed with a single 1st round pick Billy Knight has made as the Hawks GM.

Quote: Quote: And yes, Josh Smith is undersized, and a terrible post defender at this point in his career LOL u call Smith a terrible post defender and yet you want us to draft Yi? o m g Is Smith a great post defender now? Was I wrong? Did I say Yi is a better post defender than Smith? If I did, I apologize, since I've been responding to these posts and working at the same time. Don't think I did tho.

Quote: Quote: Quote: You said you are basing your opinions on highlight clips and now you are discrediting highlight clips? ok I can easily make a clip of Ivey that doesn't show any of his weaknesses. He has made enough great shots, passes and defensive plays to look very good in a 2 minute clip. I'm not discrediting hightlight clips, I'm saying I look at more than just the highlights. There are lots of things you can look at that will give you an "idea" of what kind of weaknesses and strengths a guy may have. And what are those "things" that make you think Yi will be much better at the 4 than Josh Smith. I need to post them from home, since I can't access YouTube from work. Don't hold your breath waiting on my response, since this is Memorial Day Weekend, which also doubles as my birthday celebration weekend.

Quote: Quote: I just don't see how the Hawks will be a successful franchise with an undersized 4 and 5. Josh Smith is a legit 6'9 and has put on about 10-15 lbs of muscle in both of the past 2 offseasons. He is not undersized for the PF position. Our Center position is what needs an upgrade. Size doesn't matter if you can still defend the position, and Smith can. Chicago, PHX, GS, do fine with an undersized frontcourt. Detroit is still fairly undersized, and won a championship being extremely undersized. Size is not what matters, ability does. How many teams have 7'0 or even 6'11 PF's? Not many. People want to draft Brandan Wright to play PF, and he's the same height as Smith, but about 30 lbs lighter. Uh, Detroit is not undersized. Rasheed Wallace is 6'11", which made up for Ben Wallace. PJ Brown is also 6'11, which helps Ben Wallace. I said you can't have an undersized center and power forward. You can have one or the other, but both cannot be undersized. And yes, Josh Smith is undersized, and a terrible post defender at this point in his career.

Quote: I really wonder how good Shelden, Marvin, Smoove, and Chill could be if they were properly coached. They might all be good players for another team. I'm not a big fan of Woodson, but it is not his fault that he was given a team that has an unathletic/undersized center, undersized/weaker power forward, and a trio of backup point guards. Throw in a 6th man who can't create his own shot, and an undersized/unathletic big man on the bench. Even the best coach in the world would have a hard time with that combination over an 82 game season.

Quote: You said you are basing your opinions on highlight clips and now you are discrediting highlight clips? ok I can easily make a clip of Ivey that doesn't show any of his weaknesses. He has made enough great shots, passes and defensive plays to look very good in a 2 minute clip. I'm not discrediting hightlight clips, I'm saying I look at more than just the highlights. There are lots of things you can look at that will give you an "idea" of what kind of weaknesses and strengths a guy may have.

Quote: So who does he replace? Or is he drafted to ride pine for 2 years, then he MIGHT turn into something. I guess you are content with Josh Smith bolting after next year or the next, and JJ asking for a trade because our retard GM won't stop drafting project forwards. If it's Durant, then I agree with you. Otherwise, we are SET at forward. I'm all for drafting Yi or Wright if we have a trade lined up to get rid of a forward(s) for a legit PG. Well hopefully he replaces Smooth or Williams in the starting lineup. I just don't see how the Hawks will be a successful franchise with an undersized 4 and 5. Especially when the only elite athlete on the entire front line is Smith. Williams is average at the 3, and Zaza is below average athetically at the 5. The Hawks will consistently get dominated in the paint with their current group of frontcourt players.

Quote: Quote: How many of his games have you seen, where you can say for certain that he would not be a better player than Smooth? The only way you can justify taking another forward is if he is much better than what we have now (like Durant). There is nothing to suggest that is the case with Yi. He can't finish with his left or defend post players. His shot is inconsistent. He didn't dominate against Chinese players. Meanwhile Smith excelled at the 4 in the NBA. So how can anyone say Yi is better than Smith? They can't. Therefore it makes to sense to pass up the top pg prospect in the nation just to draft another forward who isn't better than what we have now. My concern with Yi is he needs to get stronger. The left hand will come, as long as he continue to work on it. So far nobody has convinced me that the Hawks would be better off with Conley/Hawes(Noah), than with Yi/Law.

Quote: Quote: lol I like certain aspects of Yi's game, based on the limited footage I have seen Exactly. I could make a highlight take of Royal Ivey that would make him look like an All-Star. That doesn't make him one. Yeah, unless you are focusing on other aspects of his game that not even the greatest highlight reel can hide. Sorry, I've been watching and playing basketball for too long for "wow" plays to move me.

Quote: OMFG what a bunch of retard fans. Who the [censored] wants to draft ANOTHER forward? Are you [censored] serious? ANOTHER Forward? Drafting Marvin was overdrafting the forward position. Drafting Shelden gave us an astonishing surplus of forwards. Now y'all want to draft ANOTHER? BK has done his damage to this team, but now it's carrying down to the fans. I suppose all y'all are happy with BK being the GM too, right? No, you have a retarded GM who put the Hawks in this position. That doesn't mean you can't pick a possible better forward, because the idiot GM decided to try to make the entire team 6'9". If Yi has a great workout, and he measures ok, then he helps the Hawks correct one of their problems, which is a lack of height. Name a successful team outside of the Phoenix Suns who start an undersized 4 and 5?

Quote: Quote: Instead of focusing on the negatives, all of which can be worked on, I tend to focus on the things I like. I like his footwork, his ability to fade away at 7 feet (making his shot virtually unblockable), and his ability to put the ball on the floor. And how many of his games have you seen? *crickets* There is absolutely no way that Yi is a better 4 than Smith. He wouldn't get off the pine. Actually, I mentioned the limited footage I have seen on Yi in an earlier post(maybe a different thread). How many of his games have you seen, where you can say for certain that he would not be a better player than Smooth? Not being a smart a**, just asking a question because I would like more insight than what I've seen on YouTube.

Quote: Quote: You want to draft another forward so we can play even more players out of position. That is just plain dumb. How does drafting a power forward and playing him at power forward lead to playing more players out of position? I guess because the Phoenix Suns get away with a small lineup, everyone should be able to do it. It doesn't matter that the Hawks are undersized at the 4 and 5, and outside of Smooth and Solo, unathletic at the 4 and 5.

Quote: He would average 5 minutes a game sitting behind Marvin, Chillz, Smoove, and Shelden. It would be a complete waste of a pick and we would still need a center. Who said he would sit behind those guys? What have they accomplished that make them so untouchable?

Quote: The reason you like Yi so much is because YOU HAVEN'T SEEN HIM PLAY. It is the same crap every year with international players. Splitter with the big thing a year or two ago. People were talking him up to be a top 3 pick. Now he probably won't even land in the lottery. People always overrate players they haven't seen because they can't see their weaknesses. Darko anyone? Yi could easily the next Skita. Maybe there is a future for you in the circus, because I hear the mindreader gig pays big bucks. lol I like certain aspects of Yi's game, based on the limited footage I have seen. I never saw Splitter, so don't lump me with others here. I never bought into the Marvin hype, I never bought into the Childress hype, I never bought into the Shelden Hype, and I still haven't bought into the Boris Diaw hype. All of my Piston friends will tell you that I have dogged the Darko pick since the beginning, not because they didn't take Carmelo, but because they didn't take Chris Bosh. Never bought into the hype about Skita either. I'm rarely wrong about basketball players, and of the things I have seen so far, I belive it is a mistake to pass on Yi.

Quote: WTF are you talking about? Conley isn't even remotely a project player. He has already shown advanced ball handling/decision making skills needed at the point. He is already a very strong defender. The only thing questionable about him is his shot and a lot of NBA pgs have shaky jumpers. Actually he is a project player, simply because he is a point guard coming into the NBA. It's the hardest position to learn, ask Chauncey Billups or Kenny Anderson. He has "good" ballhandling skills, and with the Hawks he would be an average defender. In the NBA, great on the ball defenders are rare, because of the rules against handchecking. With Smith being the only shotblocker on the court, I doubt he will be a very "strong defender". Quote: Yi and Wright are the project players. yi can't defend the 4 or the 3 and has no left hand. Wright will get pushed around like a rag doll inside and he has no perimeter game at all. Yi simply needs to get stronger. Instead of focusing on the negatives, all of which can be worked on, I tend to focus on the things I like. I like his footwork, his ability to fade away at 7 feet (making his shot virtually unblockable), and his ability to put the ball on the floor. I also like the fact that he has legitimate power forward size, and as far as defense is concerned, most rookie big men are poor defenders. It can be taught.

Quote: Quote: And yet people want to add ANOTHER forward to make the glut even worse. Taking Yi, Wright, [insert SF/PF here] would be beyond stupid and solve none of our problems. Taking Marvin was stupid. Taking Shelden at #5 was stupid. Sticking your head in the ground, and not trying to make up for those mistakes is stupid. I would much rather have a Yi/Law combo over Conley/Hawes.

Quote: That is one of the points that I have been trying to make. Now all of a sudden our guys are [censored] since we got good draft picks. Let's not forget the progress of any of our young guys. It's not that they suck, it's they were drafted by some sort of mad scientist who doesn't have a clue on how to build a freakin team. You cannot win consistently with an undersized 4 and 5, unless you are the Phoenix Suns (and we see how many championshps they have won).

Quote: It isn't likely for us to find out what Shelden is capable of because we have a glut of forwards. And yet people want to add ANOTHER forward to make the glut even worse. I like Shelden, but I like Yi better.

Quote: Quote: Either the power forward or the center needs to be replaced. Our pf is the second best player on the team and just had a breakout season. Our center Zaza isn't great but center is the hardest position to fill and Zaza is the only player we have with decent size. Plus went don't need to replace him. We just need to add another center. Here is a better idea. Let's use the 3rd pick on a player we need rather than waste it on another project forward who will just be riding the pine. Like the project point guard everybody believes we should take with the #3 pick? GTFOH. The Hawks will be a bad defensive team, as long as they continue to have an undersized 4 and an undersized 5. Billy Knight created this masterpiece, and unfortunately they are going to have to piss some people off in order to fix it.

Quote: Quote: Quote: What is wrong with having 4 forwards on your team that don't cost you anything while you try to determine the best 2. Once you determine the best 2, then the others can be trade bait for the right deal in the off season! There is nothing wrong with having 4 forwards on the team, battling for the two starting spots. I'm hoping that Billy Knight understands that. That is nuts. WE ALREADY HAVE 4 FORWARDS BATTLING FOR 2 SPOTS, Childress, Marvin, Smith and Shelden. Now you want to add a 5th? Really it is not nuts. Either the power forward or the center needs to be replaced. Which one is easier to replace for the long haul.

Quote: Thank you. It's not like we would be getting Dikembe. Gasol is a good player but where would he play? I like Yi but then again how much does he help us? The Aldridge/Jack trade would be great unless we had to give a player up (Marvin or Chill) then I feel that would be too much. What has Aldridge proven? Jack has proved to be a decent player but is he a world beater? No!! Gasol would immediately become the starting 4 on this team. Gasol teaming up with Smoove/Marvin and Zaza instantly makes it a better frontcourt.

Quote: What is wrong with having 4 forwards on your team that don't cost you anything while you try to determine the best 2. Once you determine the best 2, then the others can be trade bait for the right deal in the off season! There is nothing wrong with having 4 forwards on the team, battling for the two starting spots. I'm hoping that Billy Knight understands that.

Not much a track and field guy, but I'm 99% certain that that Conley Sr broke the long jump record. Not sure about the sprinting.

Why does everyone say the Hawks need a center, when realistically the Hawks only need a center if they insist on keeping Smooth at the 4. You can't have an undersized center and power forward. If the Hawks are able to get a 6'10 or 6'11 pf, then Zaza is fine at the 5. If the Hawks get a bigger center, then Smooth is fine at the 4. Which is the most likely in this draft? I would say the Hawks have a better chance of landing a talented 4, than a talented center, which makes the Marvin pick even dumber. I hope this doesn't become another situation where the Hawks are bypassing better talent simply because they made a blunder by drafting Marvin with the #2 pick.