thesheedera

Buzzard, I'm picking up what you're putting down. The desperate pleas for a big man and a point guard overshadowed the fact that the team needs starter quality players at every position. In my opinion, only Joe Johnson has proven he's worthy of a starting position on a true contending NBA team. The rest is completely unearned, even if you put up good numbers for a half a season, that doesn't mean more than "promise" unless you generate some wins. People expect our #2 pick to be a savior and change the franchise immediately. When was the last time a team went from 13 wins to being a truly competitive team in the NBA with one draft and a couple free agent moves? The road ahead is a long one.

Quote: Big men when titles and other than the Bulls have done so the last several years. Convenient, leaving out 6 championships. Marvin's supposed to be a great player for the Hawks, but winning a championship will take a hell of a lot more than any one player. If those are your expectations for a #2 pick, to come to a team that barely bests 10 wins, and all of the sudden give that team a legitimate shot at a title, than you are insane.

Are Magic and Kareen as good as they were without Worthy? They all make each other better. This is not a Pippin - Jordan type of debate, Worthy would have been a great player anywhere he went. If Marvin becomes Worthy, will you be disappointed? Please answer that. I would be delighted all day long if anyone on this team is good enough one day to be talked about with the likes of James Worthy.

"At no year, could you have taken Worthy and put him with what we have here in Atlanta and expect a championship... PERIOD." You expect a #2 pick to do THAT with a 13 win kind of team? You're nuts.

How about this hypothetical: If Marvin's game develops into as good a game as Big Game James' did, will you still think this is a bad pick? If so, then you have something against Marvin that's very strange and needs a psychologist's opinion. Marvin has a similar humility and willingness to learn and be coached that James had. He also has similar talents at a similar age. I believe he has the ability to be a star like Worthy was (and he was a star), and what Marvin can do for this team is exactly the kind of thing that the Hawks need to be a contender one day. You're all referring to championships. We won THIRTEEN games last season! One step at a time, folks. Marvin's a huge piece to the puzzle, and while you're bashing him and resenting him, he's learning how to take your team back to respectability. I hope you can sit back and enjoy it, instead of wasting time and energy criticising him along the way. If you choose to doubt the guy, you will be sorely disappointed.

Quote: When you think about the Showtime Lakers, is Worthy the first imagine in your mind? The Second? The third? He's the third, but that's in pretty good company. Are you saying that Worthy would have been less of a player had he started with a bad team? How do you know that for sure? You don't.

Quote: It's about championships... SF/PF's don't lead teams to championships. 1988 Finals MVP

1988 NBA Final MVP, how is that second fiddle?

Quote: Well, there's no Magic Johnson and Kareem on the Hawks to be the main guys. No kidding? Who he played with doesn't diminish the fact that Worthy is one of the greatest players in the history of the game, and that if Marvin becomes even 75% of the player Worthy was, he will have had a successful career and will be a long loved Hawk.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/worthy_bio.html Quote: Magic would recall that the way Worthy handled himself that first year showed immediately that he had the brains to go along with his physical gifts. "Even though he was the No. 1 pick in the draft, he had made up his own mind that he was gonna learn from Wilkes, and he accepted his role," Johnson told the Los Angeles Daily News after Worthy retired. "That told me he was a team player, and a winner too. Most rookies would be complaining and griping, but he never did that." By Diesel's standards, Worthy was a bum, and didn't have the mentality required to be a star.

Quote: The best Sf of Marvin's type has never come close to championship. While most championship teams have a championship C. James Worthy never won a championship? He's the best comparison I have for who/what Marvin's game is hoped to become like.

"Definitely Sounds Ira Newbilelish... However, is that what you want from somebody you draft 2nd overall?" Ira Newbill in his prime, and his maximum potential. Marvin as a rookie, still cutting his teeth. Yeah, I'll take that from my #2, especially when he gets to the line, hits his free throws, matches his TOs with steals, gets boards and puts the other team in positions where they have to foul. This is WHILE he's developing into a team leader, star and go-to player. Most guys that develop into that role with his potential kill you early on with rookie mistakes, hogging the ball, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Marvin already contributes without taking away, he'll do that from day one, and every day forward. And all the while, he will grow into the full potential he was drafted for. FYI: MJ was a "role player" as a freshman at UNC. MJ is the greatest basketball player of all time. I'm not saying Marvin = MJ in any way (but class and coachability, perhaps), but just remember that even the best will play their "role" when its appropriate and necessary.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. We have to remember that a majority fo these guys have NEVER played together in a real game. Lots of turnovers and a lack of offensive chemistry should be expected for a while. The only thing that would concern me this early on would be if we were lazy on defense, or weren't responding to our coaches. I listened to the game on the radio, and the announcer never mentioned who was defending who a single time, so I have no reference for how our D played other than the fouls, blocks, steals, loose balls and the box score. Any insight on how these guys looked defensively? Marvin did exactly as I expected and exactly what I think we should expect fro his first season. Lots of effort, loose balls, aggressive to the basket, trouble finishing, but solid production at the line and on the glass. (for Diesel) He is definitely a role player for now, and he'll handle his role with grace and production. He'll grow into his "star role" when he gets acclimated to the NBA. This is another reason why I love the pick. He's not the kind of future star that will screw up the team while he develops. He's the kind of guy that will do the little things, and will grow into the role of doing the really big things. Sounded like he moved the ball well and started the break a few times. His defense will be lowsy for a while I think. He'll be too aggressive and out of position until he learn the game from the coaches and from experince. Lots of steals and loose balls, but he'll get beat a lot early on, and he'll get a bunch of fouls. Did this look like a "team"? Not in the offensive halfcourt, but in huddles, timeouts, shootaround, etc.?

Have you taken a look at Nash's numbers when JJ was sitting?

If anything, we've only gathered the construction materials together. There's a hell of a lof of "building" left, in my opinion. But I do think we've completed the most important part, with the exception of a bona-fide big man. I like Zaza, but even at his max ptential, he's gonna need some depth to help him out down there.

The one under "marv on the fast break" is on Dwight H. and Livingston. The clip of him dunking on J. Smith gives you a good idea of his athleticism. Josh had time to get some decent lift from out of bounds, and Marvin had the advantage of a running start, but they both end up in the same place. I have no doubt that Josh has a few inches on him from a vert. perspective, but people saying Marvin isn't athletic are insane, or ill-informed. I'm out, have a great night, and I hope those links do what they're supposed to do. if anyone's got computer skills, putting all of that into a single clip would be awesome.

Last one - from this year's tournament opener against Oakland. Rough night for Oakland: http://rapidshare.de/files/5923548/UNC-Oakland.wmv.html Wish I had more, hopefully these are enjoyable. If you have any trouble, scroll down on the link, select the "free" option, another page will open, and after a few seconds there will be a new link on the page in bold. Then you can just save the file for yourself once its open.

From deep: http://rapidshare.de/files/5923397/three.wmv.html And a few looks at this tomahawk (on smoove, I believe): http://rapidshare.de/files/5923415/tomahawk.wmv.html http://rapidshare.de/files/5923434/tomahawk_replay.wmv.html http://rapidshare.de/files/5923443/tomahaw...play_2.wmv.html

Baseline dunk from one of the All Star games: http://rapidshare.de/files/5923078/baseline.wmv.html http://rapidshare.de/files/5923104/baseline_replay.wmv.html Nice shot in a cut to a commercial: http://rapidshare.de/files/5923129/cut_to_...ercial.wmv.html Marv on the fast break: http://rapidshare.de/files/5923151/fastbreak.wmv.html http://rapidshare.de/files/5923167/fastbreak_replay.wmv.html

More of a recruiting video: http://rapidshare.de/files/5923036/hs.wmv.html

nice, this is the biggest file, so it might take a little bit to download: http://rapidshare.de/files/5922617/HS_Highlights.wmv.html That's a highschool team highlight tape, but most are Marvin clips. Shows him putting the ball on the floor a lot more than he got to at UNC. Of course, there wasn't a Raymond Felton on his HS team, and there weren't ACC defenders playing against him.

I gotta run soon, so if anyone has any ideas or wants to give me their email address, send me a private message and I'll get to it later.

Folks, I was cleaning off my hard drive and found a folder of video files of Marvin. - One's a recruiting highlight clip. - One is his high school's highlight video of his senior year (mostly Marvin). - Several short clips from, I believe, the Capital Classic All Star Game (same thing as Jordan Classic??). - And a quick one from the UNC - Oakland NCAA tournamnt game. Should be fun stuff for any Hawks fan. Here's the problem, they're all just media files on my computer. I can't link them on hawksquak, but if someone knows how to upload them to the site, or how to set up a page to host them, I could email them to you. I hate to post them and have Diesel start to pick him apart and say they're great clips, but not for a #2 pick, but I think the greater good will be served if these are shared. j/k Diesel

In order to keep top talent, you have to create an atmosphere that guys are drawn to so they aren't thinking about money only. They have to be treated right, and they have to have a chance to win. Right now we can't do one of those things, but if the ownership and management can run a first class program and be smart with money over the nexy 2 years, we could become that kind of a franchise. The Braves and Falcons have created an atmosphere that excellent players want to be a part of, even if it means not getting every dime they might get elsewhere. Both of those franchises have been at the bottom of the barrell. If they can be successful, so too can the Hawks. I think money will be an issue when the young studs reach their potential, but I'm hoping by then that being a Hawk is something to be proud of. Right now, not so much.

These things are pretty hard to predict, and this assumes 3 years awaybut: I see Childress as the vocal leader, the guy with the locker room quotes, the coach's voice on the floor. JJ as the floor general, the playmaker, the clutch shot man. I don't know enough about him to understand how he works with coaches, but he could be another coach's voice on the floor kind of guy. Marvin as the backbone of the team, the leader by example type that keeps the intensity at a high level and gives maximum effort on both sides of the floor. He's the night in night out consistent production guy. He instills that calm confidence in his teammates. Josh S. as the energy boost. Marvin is more of a persistent source of intensity that keeps you going throughout the game, but Josh will provide that A-bomb kind of explosion that sparks a run to come back, or puts a team away, with the highlight dunks/blocks. He's the flashy hollywood quality (along with Salim), that will give the team its swagger.