thesheedera

RAHMOR - if these guys are interested in signing with us after we posted 13 wins last season with pretty much the same team we'll be trotting out there this coming season, then they're certainly prepared to play for a bad team. They can't possibly expect a couple rookies to make that much difference on a team that almost lost 70 games. A "disappointing" summer league isn't going to influence any free agent. These are glorified practices, these are scrimmages, and our guys are not all healthy. Now, I do think that that 13 win total is a reason for concern when trying to gauge the interest of restricted free agents. Maybe they're interested, maybe they're gambling for more money. Even if we end up getting guys like JJ and Dally, I really hope its not because they gambled and lost. I hope its because they want to be here. A newly signed guy who's bitter they're in Atlanta is far worse than a less talented guy that will bust his tail.

link?

What do you think the Hawks would have to give up to get Watson? Any chance that Boris would be enough?

Quote: I'd still much rather have him than Collier. Even if we get Curry, I'd still like to have Zaza for depth over Collier. I wouldn't mind having all three. Post depth is invaluable.

Watson JJ Childress Harrington Collier With Stoudamire, Diaw, Marvin, Josh S., and Stewart coming off the bench might be fun to watch, improve our win column, but keep us in th lottery for more nice picks in the next draft.

I agree that if we get JJ, he should be our primary SG, who could also play some point. I also agree that Childress should split his time between the 2 and 3, and is the best small forward at this point. Josh Smith would still get plenty of time at the 3 and 4. And if we keep Al, I think bringing Marvin off the bench to get minutes at the 3 and 4 would be wise.Throwing these young guys to the wolves with major minutes can both help and hurt them, but the risk of hindering their development outweighs speeding up their development in my mind, because this is a long term build. I'm not a D. Stoudamire fan, but that idea is better than Marbury. I'd rather get someone like Watson, who has the potential to be exactly what this team needs, and will come as a cheap experiment. Your big man rotation scares the crap out of me, but short of getting Curry, I'm not sure how much better we can do. If we can solidify 1-4 this offseason, and worry about the 5 on down the line, we would have still accomplished alot. 1-Watson-Diaw-Stoudamire-Ivey 2-JJ-Childress-Diaw-Stoudamire-Ivey 3-Childress-Smith-Marvin-Donta 4-Al-Marvin-Smith I hope that Smith doesn't become a malcontent over playing time. With JJ, Childress, Marvin, Smith and Al at the 2-3, you have all you will need at those positions for a long time. Ivey and Donta might not have jobs for too long.

capstone, I've thought about those two as well Knight's a great stop gap guy if we can't find the long term franchise type guy. Jay's a low cost gamble who could turn into a huge payoff for us. I think these guys are last resort types, but I coul live with all of them for a season. I don't believe we have any chance of fulfilling every long term need in this offseason. We're still a LONG LONG way from being competitive.

My vote's for Earl Watson. Inexpensive and young, and with the right opportunity he could flourish as a starting PG. If he's no better than a stop gap guy for a year, he'll at least be an improvement on what we have, and he could platoon with the other less natural point guards on the team. I agree that this is a huge need for us. I disagree that Deron or Paul would have been the end all be all. Great college point guards don't always translate to great NBA point guards. I'd like to get a guy who has shown some success in the league when given a chance. Jaric or Daniels would be great, but we don't seem to be targeting them.

I haven't seen the games, but from what I've read at InsideCarolina.com, he's not hitting his shots in the lane. Marvin's "great shooting" refers to his ability to hit jump shots, which he really hasn't had a chance to display since highschool. Other than some open threes and 15 footers in college (which he converted at a good percentage) and his NBA workouts, he's been confined to the low post. He played almost exclusively down low in college, where he had a lot of shots blocked and some very poor shooting nights to go with his great games. His knack for drawing contact and getting to the free throw line, where he's automatic, made you feel a lot better about his shooting percentage. Marvin's very raw, especially in the post. He still had a long way to go to be a dominant college player, but no one doubted that that is exactly what he would become this season. He doesn't have any polished moves down low, so all of his production comes from being aggressive and attacking the rim. Fortunately that draws contact and results in lots of boards and tip ins. Unfortunately, it also gets him in awkward positions with the ball from time to time that make it difficult to finish and gets some of his shots blocked. Marvin can hit jumpers, but the Hawks seem to be keeping him inside right now where we need some help, and frankly, where he needs the most work. Just try to remember that summer league games are not played to showcase talent to get fans excited. This is like spring training, wins and losses mean very little, stats mean very little. Learning to play the right way and learning to play with your teammates are the most important things to accomplish. As a huge Marvin fan I selfishly sort of wish he was shooting high percentages and draining long range shots, but I know that the Hawks probably need him to be a post player more than they need him to be a perimeter player, so I'm glad that they're focusing on developing his big man game. Be patient with him. He's not LeBron, but he sure as heck ain't Darko. He's not ready to be a star in his rookie season. If he becomes one, I'll be pleasantly surprised, but that's not what he was drafted for. he was drafted to be a long term fixture for the organization. He is smart and focused on working hard. He's not gonna flake out on this organization, so don't flake out on him after some summer league scrimmages. Remember that they don't even allow guys to foul out in summer league. This is valuable game like practice for our young guys, its not even a preseason exhibition situation.

MrH is right. It takes a lot to get talent at the 1 and 5 in the NBA. Childress and Harrington are considered expendable now because the SF position is the only position we have talented depth at, and the front office would be afraid of trading Marvin in the event he becomes a top 10 type player. Keeping those guys AND getting guys like Curry, Johnson and Watson is really ideal. I love the problem of too much talent at the forward positions. Realistically, most of our current players are ideal 6th men and/or role players on contending teams. Having Marvin, either of the Joshes or Al coming off the bench (if they can handle that role) would mean we've stockpiled enough talent to be a really good team. If we get the guys I want, and keep the guys we have... Guys who can play point: Watson/Johnson/Diaw/Stoudamire/Ivey/Childress(?) Guys who can play the 2: Johnson/Childress/Stoudamire/J. Smith(?) Small forwards: Al/J. Smith/Marvin/Childress/D. Smith Power forwards: Curry/Al/Marvin/J. Smith Centers: Curry/Collier I'm not worried about the starting lineup, that might change from game to game depending on who we're playing, and I hope we're building a team that's unselfish enough to accept the roles that give the team a chance to be great. That team, plus another big man with a truly physical presence that can play PF and Center, is a very very good team. But if we sign Curry, Johnson and Watson, and we still need more interior depth, something might have to give to stay under the cap in the long run. Our team's strength is that we have a plethora of young talents at the small forward position. Sure, they can play other positions, but I believe Al, the Joshes and Marvin would best reach their potential as a 3 on a very good team. They have value and long careers ahead ofthem It would hurt to lose any of them, but that's all we have to offer to fill in the huge holes in our lineup.

Disappointing start for the Hawks, its definitely gonna take a while with the youth on this team. I'm hoping that Marvin's "lethargy" is a combo of first game nerves and needing more conditioning. I don't think its a matter of heart. The comments about Smith are disturbing. Who was he arguing with on the team?

sounds like a steal for where we drafted him - best of luck to him, hope he continues to develop and gets over to the hawks as soon as he's ready

What position(s) does he play for this team? Thanks for the info. Also, anyone know of a realistic time frame within which we should expect to see him in the US?

We've done too good a job collecting guys without any issues to bring in someone who could potentially disrupt chemistry. At his best, Bonzi would be a great addition. At his worst, he could undermine everything we've been building since Knight came to town.

The AJC's reporting that 750 dropped the Hawks, not the other way around? http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/haw...5hawkradio.html "The Hawks, dropped by their longtime radio flagship station after last season, have found a new spot on the dial." Hurts getting dropped when you're the hometown team! 680 The Fan would definitely have been a better choice for broadcasting reasons, but I like the Zone's programming much better these days. The best option would be Z93 or 96 Rock picking them up on the FM dial. As for Randolph Morris, something just ain't right about that guy. Watching him in high school against Howard a couple times, he never seemed to impose his will and his intensity was completely vacant. I only watched two games, but it seemed like he just took what was there for him (which at 7-0 tall, was plenty to put up big numbers), rather than being the aggressor. At Kentucky, he's been strange, too. Doesn't seem to work hard, and his relationship with Tubby has been so odd. Who faxes their coach that they're leaving the team??? His talent and potential are unquestionable, but until he snaps out of whatever he's in, I think we're better off without him. I agree on Curry, he's the only guy I think we can get, especially at a decent price. Hopefully the older he gets, the more he's willing to improve his D and rebounding. A change of scenery can go both ways, but I love it when a guy leaves a town with something to prove, especially if he's going to a town with nothing but upside and a solid young foundation.

And don't forget, he's still the youngest player on this team, even the summer league squad.

Look for Marvin to grab boards and get to the line, especially if they're playing him in the post. He'll do everything he's told by the coaches in order to help them win, because frankly, that's all the kid cares about. He's the kind of player that won't take credit for personal accomplishments, if you see that as a weakness, then you have your own problems. He converts from the line at an 80+%, and it seemed like most of his double digit scoring games came off of 5 or more foul shots made. At UNC he was almost exclusively relegated to the post, since we were so thin down low and so loaded on the perimeter. If he gets a chance to play on the wing in the summer league, I have no idea what to expect. He could go off, but I would expect him to be pretty messy at first if he's trying to take guys off the dribble for the first time in real games since high school. The kid's gonna take a while to get his sea legs I would think. But if he's been polishing his perimeter game, who knows? maybe he'll go off. His ability to draw fouls comes from his aggressive nature with the ball down low. He has a lot to learn about getting clear shots down there so more of his attempts go in, but his ability to draw contact made up for his impatience and rawness in the post all season. He converts the free throws, and puts other big men in foul trouble. Once the season starts and fouls count this part of his game will pay more dividends as opposing players are sitting on the bench a lot, but we still should see some benefits to it right now when he's going 5-6, 7-9, 8-10 from the line. I can't wait to see what he does, but if he struggles early, don't freak out. His learning curve is steep.

Boris ain't exactly the back alley type, either.

It would be night and day if Stoudamire proves he's capable of playing the point and we land JJ at the 2. Now if we have to play Boris at point and Childress at the 2...yikes. I expect both to improve their outside shooting, though.

Anyone else concerned about having a shooting guard that just finished a season making only 13 3s at a 23.2% clip? I don't deny that Childress will be our starting SG next season if the roster remains the same, but in the long run I think he's much better suited as a 6th man who can come in and play various positions. I hope he's putting serious time into his jumpshot this summer if he's gonna be a successful 2 man.

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/19/192792.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/19/194521.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/19/195377.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/204133.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/204682.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/206091.jpg http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207516.jpg

and in sequence:http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207572.jpghttp://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207573.jpghttp://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/207574.jpgthe kid will bring it hard, wish the season started tomorrow

http://www.uncbasketball.com/ic/marvin020605.jpg memories...

First of all, sorry for the length. Could have written more to tell you the truth. I had to register here because of Diesel's comments about Marvin's competitiveness. You clearly didn't follow UNC closely this year, and that's fine, I don't expect everyone to be a Carolina fan. But had you paid attention to their season, a couple things would have been obvious to you. Here are just a few:1) Marvin didn't start, but he was the first sub, and usually came in for Jawad or May within 3 or 4 minutes of a game. By the end of the season, he was constantly on the floor at the end, in the place of a seasoned 4 year starter (Jawad). It was obvious to everyone that Marvin had more talent and competitiveness than Jawad, but he was also young in the system, and had to learn what to do out there from Jawad and Sean. Marvin took a backseat not because of talent, but because of experience. and just because he gives pc answers doesn't mean he was pleased by sittying on the bench. He just made the most of it, and he knew he was getting plenty of minutes to do his thing. Name another 6th man in college basketball that averaged his numbers off the bench. Not easy to do. Jawad and Jackie Manuel were not as talented as guys like Marvin and possibly Reyshawn Terry, but they started, because Roy knew they deserved it after enduring the 3 most painful years of Carolina basketball, and they understood the system.2) All of Marvin's teammates and the former Heels that were in town for the summer last year talked about Marvin's fire in preseason scrimmages. Stackhouse in particular was quoted several times talking about how ferocious of a player he was even then, before he'd played a single college game. Sean May NEVER went after rebounds in his first 3 seasons like he did this season. Not even close. Guess what happens when you add a kid like Marvin to the mix? The daily intensity level rises in practices, and you get more out of the guys you already have. Marvin gave the team a spark it didn't have before he got to Chapel Hill. It wasn't his "numbers", it was his attitude that I believe put the team over the top. And I LOVE the other guys on the team. And I do think Marvin has weaknesses, but attitude and competitiveness aren't his weaknesses, they're his strengths. Luckily for the Hawks, his weaknesses can be improved with coaching and time in the gym.3) The bit about wanting to have fun over winning was from little league baseball, give the kid a break, I don't think a 19 year old's competitive nature should be judged by how he reacted when he was 10, in a completely different sport. That's just a garbage argument. The story is meant to show that the guy has a huge heart, not a negative thing. He certainly didn't take himself out of any games in college, especially the Duke and Illinois games, when had had the winning buckets in both. Those shots were tip ins, being in the right place at the right time, attacking the basket after a shot went up, and beating everyone to the ball. Not exactly passive plays.4) He's not polished around the rim, but he's the most aggressive guy we had inside since Jamison, maybe even Rasheed. When he learns a few moves to add to his effort, he'll be very dangerous down there. Even in transition (like against FSU, going through a guy to finish a dunk when it looked like an obvious layup) he attacks the goal. The only finesse part of his game is his outside touch and his passing. Everything else is beastly.5) He will improve, because he works hard and he' a smart kid. Roy Williams said if he could coach 5 Marvin Williamses out there that he'd coach for free. Also has called him the most unique player he's ever coached. oy's not the kind of guy that blows hot air up his player's aises. He means what he said. 6) Marvion does things on his own schedule. Not playing for the better Seattle program was just like choosing college over the NBA. Its not because he's afrai of competition, he just does what feels right. All season long us Heels fans thought he would be around another year. He repeatedly said he wanted to stay in college, his dad did too. Marvin realized along the way that he was ready for the NBA, and made up his mind quickly after the season ended. He still has plenty to work on, but decided to take it to the show. We hould be glad he did. He's not one to make a decision based on outside influences, this came from his own mind. Marvin's ready for the NBA, and us Hawks fans are lucky that he is. He couldn't be a star in every game, he had 3 other lottery picks around him who could all average 20/game on other teams. He also had 3 seniors around him with enough skills to deserve time, and who had big games. Its not like he wasn't a factor. Even when his box score wasn't amazing, he made huge plays in every big game.Marvin does have superstar potential, eveyone who has coached him, played with him, played against him and watched him as a fan sees it, and soon you will too.I think he'll be an all star eventually. He's different, he's unique. Don't take snippets of stories or quotes and pigeon-hole the kid, just wait a little while and you'll understand that he's a very special player and person.Anyway, not trying to attack with my first post, but I am very confident that you will agree about this kid after he gets some time to learn the NBA game. I feel strongly about it, and had to say something. Go Hawks.