SalvorMallow

I'm sure win shares are a great way to get a summary of how a player performs on the court, but I feel there's no way that that should be the ONLY thing that is considered when evaluating a player. If that was the case, it would be super easy to evaluate talent and there would be no room for questions about the value of players.

^fixed

Don't discount the fact that we were basically a brand new team with a brand new system and brand new coach.

That's a great point, and it shows that having a superstar no where near guarantees a championship. You have to have the winning organizational culture established FIRST. Houston had Yao Ming AND Tracy McGrady and STILL couldn't win a championship.

It's time to check our dignity at the door, dump everything we have, and dive head first into the lottery GM. That's what I did and look at me now!

So I'm confused now. Is the goal to win one more game in the second round, or is the goal to win a championship? If making the finals is all we're looking to do, we just lowered the bar a whole lot.

That's a bit hypocritical. I thought no playoff game mattered unless it was the NBA finals? FINALS OR TANK!!!!!!!!!!

Duncan was drafted in 97 by an already extremely good Spurs team that had David Robinson, and of course the hall of fame coach didn't hurt. What about now, though? Duncan has about the same stats as Horford but 2 of their big three are late draft picks. Tony parker was drafted 28th in 2001 and Manu Ginobili was drafted 57th in 1997. A string of good decisions and fantastic coaching has kept them in championship contention. The Heat drafted Wade in 2003. The Heat are probably the best example of going from a mediocre team to a really good team by drafting a player, but if they hadn't made the free agency moves that they did (i.e. adding Shaq, Gary Payton, Antoine Walker, and Jason Williams), they would never have had a championship. Add to that the fact that they had a hall of fame coach and you have a recipe for success that extends far beyond the draft. Just drafting a good player does not a good team make. What about the Utah Jazz in 98? Malone was drafted at number 13 and Stockton at 16. They also had a hall of fame coach. Or how about the Los Angeles Lakers? They traded the 1989 26th pick to get Kobe Bryant, added a bunch of talent through trade a FAcy and of course, the hall of fame coach to get it done. They have won more championships than any other team in in the past 20 years and they sure as hell haven't done it through the draft. I hope you're beginning to see the trend. The draft is an important piece of the puzzle, but it doesn't necessarily have to be the top 5, and drafting in the top 5 doesn't guarantee you a championship any more than making the playoffs every year. The lost revenues from tanking hamstrings a teams ability to get free agents and make big trades to get the pieces needed to put a good team together, not to mention purposely tanking fosters a losing culture and makes your good players want to get off of your team, and drives away free agents. What Ferry is trying to do is build a hard-working, winning culture that attracts free agents while still maintaining the flexibility to make moves to improve the team. If you ask me, or most of the analysts who do any research on tanking, that is the best way to go. The Lakers and Celtics haven't figured out how to stay on top? smh...

Here is a great article about tanking and how it doesn't actually work. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/40055/does-tanking-even-work TL:DR, building a winning organizational culture and making lots of good decisions in a row is how to win a championship, not tanking.

You're right, because drafting great players means you're guaranteed a title. Just ask New Orleans when they drafted Chris Paul, or Cleveland when they drafted Lebron James, or Orlando when they drafted Dwight Howard, or Portland when they drafted Greg Oden, or Chicago when they drafted Derrick Rose, ...oh...wait a second... In fact, looking back 10 years all the way to 2004, the only teams that drafted top 5 and have won championships since are Miami (Drafted MIchael Beasley at #2 in 2008), Boston (Drafted Jeff Green at 5 in the 2007 draft) and Dallas (Drafted Devin Harris at 5 in the 2004 draft). There is something in common with all of these teams, they were all formed via trades and free agency, with none of the players actually on the team when they won the championship. Of course, one could argue that the draftees were used in trades to help get the pieces needed to form the championship team (not the case with Miami, who salary dumped beasley for 2 second round picks), but I think that shows that having a top 5 pick, even in a super deep draft (i.e. 2008) doesn't necessarily give this huge advantage that you and many others are claiming. No player over the 34th pick (Chalmers) in the 2008 draft has won a championship. I don't want to wallow in the lottery, draft top 5, then wait 10 years hoping he actually materializes into something good (skill or trade) in order to get a championship, meanwhile loathing how crappy my team is and watching ticket sales fall down the tubes, which means less money to make moves.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/03/15/korver-has-been-historically-good/ He also has the highest eFG% out of anybody in the past 32 years, behind only Wilt Chamberlain and Artis Gilmore, but yeah, you're right, he sucks...

Here is an interesting article about how Carmelo increases the offensive efficiency of players around him.

The fact that someone would have to compare Carmelo to Lebron and Durant to show how "Bad" he is must mean he is tremendously good.

We were out-rebounded by 17. Sounds like our lack of depth in the front court was to blame for this one.

They had 13 more FTA. Pretty hard to win against that.

Yes because west teams play west teams more often, increasing the SoS.

'nuff said.

One thing I find hilarious about sports forums is how knee-jerk every single post-game thread is. "Millsap is garbage we only have him to trade him" after one bad game. Next time he has a good game "YEAAAH THAT'S MILLSAP THE ALLSTAR let's keep him around!"

Woah give lou some props, he is dominating right now.

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/11/07/hawks-Schröder-suspended/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts

I think anyone in their right mind would want D12 over Harden. The proven number 1 center in the league or a 6th man who choked in the finals. hmm...

Is Zaza going to become a top 10 center as well?

And then tack on the assertion that our 7th or 8th man Zaza Pachulia is "Even" to Brook Lopez and you easily have one of the wonkiest posts I have ever seen on this forum.

To say the LEAST!