NBASupes

They had a better record and better defense without Harden. Martin was just as efficient. They lost the minute Westbrook got hurt in the playoffs. The same would have happened last year if Westbrook got hurt. Harden game is basic. He will never be any good in the playoffs. They play a run and gun style. He struggles greatly in the halfcourt and his shooting% drop by 10% in their losses. His defense is Jamal worthy and his BBIQ is average at best.

We drafted Marvin, Shelden, and Childress. Extremely awful GM skills and a weak draft with Shelden killed us. My question for you is, who would you rather tank with BK or Ferry?

Terrible PnR defender, lateral quickness is shot, can't protect the rim or the paint, and soft as tissue. Once again, what benefit does he bring to your goals? You want a good team and player development. We are playing vets and we aren't any good. What's the plan here from your perceptive?

He's not going no where. With him, GS is a potential contender and to just get him for capspace is not happening. You could get Bidenris or Jefferson for cap space and maybe a pick but that doesn't fit your goal.

Okay, that's much tougher than the opposite given our assets but I'll try. A. He wouldn't sign a team friendly deal with Atlanta. We are in the middle. No one does that to teams in the middle. B. No. He needs to be a max role player like what Leonard is in San Antonio. Atlanta can't offer him that. Lack the personnel and talent. That's really tough. Because players who could help the team is already helping their team. Gortat would get a 1st round offer. Not worth it for Atlanta. Gasol is over the hill PP is likely getting traded to Cleveland Granger is staying. They are literally Granger a legit backup PG away from contending. Hump is a bum and Brooklyn is trying to flip him for a legit PF on a bad contract like Boozer. Deng is not available for just cap space. Marion is available but the issue is, will he be available if Dallas can't get CP3? Andy is available but for a 1st. Not worth it. Hawes and Ridnour won't help and they aren't available for just cap space. It's hard, teams aren't willing to trade quality players for nothing unless it's to avoid the LT. Ferry from all my readings has all options open. He wants to be in the market for 2013 and 2014. You just never know, maybe Lebron comes to ATL lol.

OKC is still the proper way to rebuild. Cleveland is doing the same. Bad rebuilding is us. Houston just collected assets, got some high picks, and flipped it for a player who is highly productive but isn't highly effective. Joe wasn't highly productive but he was productive and he was very effective. Joe would be starting if he was on OKC with Westbrook and Durant. OKC didn't trade Harden because of the cap, they traded him because they thought he was replaceable.

Houston is in the same position as us. How is that the proper way to rebuild? They are praying that D12 signs with them. What makes them any different than us when we had a rookie Horf, young Josh, and a prime Joe? Your way of rebuilding do what we did in the past.

That was luck. The pick it self wasn't. We scouted, did our homework and took the best player left in the draft.

But Drummond wouldn't qualify under skill either. What does he do particular well? He has the ability to do a lot but what does he do well?

Just 2014 and 2015. If we got CP3 and D12, this is be a coup. If we don't, oh well.

It's only important if we were better than Brooklyn each year or in 2015. Other then that, we do not swap picks with Brooklyn.

What is your goal? If it's like KB21 which is to stay the same and hope for some type of trade and development of a mid-late 1st pick then I have options for you? One would be to sign Iggy. Glue player. Smart. Great defender. Can play PG at times. Poor offensively. Ball dominate. Good overall player. He can help you and would be a decent trade asset when he exp.

Honestly, if we suck, get a top 6 pick in an extremely deep draft. We really don't need luck. We only need luck with the lotto balls. We got Al Horford in one extremely deep draft.

That's just a risk you take. Especially when Oden has had signs of injury every season of Basketball playing days since he was in 6th grade. That means every year since 6th grade Oden has had a some type of injury. That was a red flag. Portland seem to avoid all red flags during these drafts.

You ask me to not talk about tanking here so I won't, I will say that the options are limited if you want to continue to glue the leak from the roof instead of buying a new roof when the roof is pretty damaged.

Skill in my POV is the ability to do something with consistency. MJ had a great skill on the jumpshot. Talent is the ability to do something. Drummond has massive talent. He can do a lot on a court and athletically, he's amazing. My interpretation of talent and skill. Like Cam Newton is one of the most talented QB's in the NFL. Matt Ryan is very skilled but he's not overly talented. Or my girlfriend is learning Photoshop and as an artist, she has a lot of talent but lacks the skill at the moment. Dolfan is extremely skilled at Photoshop. When companies look to hire young people, they want talent. When they hire guys like you, they want skill. Josh Smith is an extremely talented player who lacks the skills to match.

Fair enough, I didn't mean to derail the thread, I thought it was a great idea but I had a different idea for it. It wasn't a derailment but in my mind, if you can't get CP3/D12, tank is your best option if you look at the options available. My bad. For me, this thread would be like, what deals can get for contracts that can get us more assets. I seen it completely different. It can be like that sometimes. Look at me and Dolfan. He said Drummond is tremendously skilled. I was like, not even, he is tremendously talented but he's not skilled at all. We just had different terminology but were saying the same thing. You have to remember on a message board, your idea can be great but someone else could have a completely different interpretation about it.

When I think of tremendously skilled players I think of Duncan, Shaq, Kareem. When I think of Drummond, I think of massive talent but is extremely raw and is not skilled at all. I think we are saying the same thing but your term of skill is my term of talent.

While I would leave I would appreciate if you would A. Not assume my thoughts. B. Not attack my notions. C. Just reply to me with that statement (#17) this one in another thread which basically disrespecting me in terms of getting a reply and you trying to get a last shot. That's is disrespectful, if you feel I am not respecting your thread address it, don't disrespect me in the process. That's extremely disrespectful and appalling behavior. You could have done this a completely different way. As soon as you said what you wanted this thread to be about leave it at that. I didn't disrespect you once.

I think we are saying the same thing but different terms.

Bud knew we could go either way. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt_EI0vBMgI

Seattle/OKC tank job: Their 1st tank was in 2007. 2006 wasn't a tank. They just missed the playoffs with Sund and he drafted Saer Sene who was clearly a bust. 2007, they drafted their franchise player Ray Allen for the 5th pick which was Jeff Green and they drafted Kevin Durant with the #2 pick in a very strong draft. 2008, was also a very strong draft. They drafted Russell Westbrook 4th. 2009, a good draft, they drafted James Harden 3rd overall. So when they tanked, they got KD, Westbrook, Harden, and Green. With their assets, they got Ibaka, Thabo, Collision, and the rights to Eric Bledsoe and Roddy Bousbious. Talk about great drafting.

Some of you guys like KB are making this much harder than it is. Ferry is extremely smart. He will try his hardest to get CP3/D12. If he can't a quick rebuild is a great option. Scrub/Jenkins/Scrub/Horf/Scrub 6th man: Lou Bench: Scrubs. Get a lot of assets like draft picks. 2014 Draft a potential franchise player. Have a lot of picks and built them up or keep them overseas. 2015 Draft a potential franchise player. Get more picks and built them up or keep them overseas. 2016 Resign Horf, our potential franchise player should be an impact player now and make the playoffs. 2017 Contend 2018 Be favorites for the NBA title Don't tank force: 2013 Teague/Jenkins/Smoove/Horf/Jefferson Made the playoffs and crash and burn in the 1st round 2014 Try to draft the next Kahwi Leonard and trade Smoove, no one bites on Smoove. Drafts Semaj Christon. He is a role player backing up Jeff Made the playoffs to get crushed by the 1 seed. 2015 It's clear, players need to be traded. No one is interested in Smoove or Jefferson but Horf has value. We trade him for some prospects who aren't that good. Draft: At 15, we draft another role player. Great for us. We miss the playoffs barely. 2016 We are a late lottery team with contracts like Jefferson and Smoove on board with some role players who aren't that good. Horf is doing excellent in his new home and even made 1st team all NBA. Bud gets fired. Ferry gets fired. ASG sells the team for less than market value to the shegrin of Adam Sliver. Draft this prospect with potential but he's raw. 2017 We miss the playoffs again. Smoove and Jefferson are now free agents. We draft on potential again and land a decent player with potential to sell to the fanbase. 2018 We tanked badly Top 5 pick the draft The potential guys didn't develop the way we wanted.

He doesn't have tremendous skill or he would have been a starter and a lock as an All Star. He has tremendous talent and potential.

They tanked wrong. Didn't go into a full tank till recently. They landed MKG in their first full tank since trading Crash. This year they have another pick. Stop saying teams getting lotto picks is tanking. Tanking is getting a top 6 pick and playing bad Basketball. Either you don't have enough talent (Charlotte now) or you have a stud and you put the NDBL around him (T-Mac in ORL and Wade in MIA). Washington went into full tank. Traded their pick(Rubio) for Mike Miller. Then drafted John Wall, Bradley Beal and Jan Vasely. Terrible drafting but they did get to potential Stars in Wall and Beal. Look at Cleveland. Since Bron, they been tanking. They got Tristian Thompson, Kyrie Irving, and Dion Waiters. Good tanking. To me teams that tank, tank with a plan. NJ got Favors and flip their other pick with was Kanter to get a superstar in Deron Williams. That's good tanking. Extremely bad tanking is only getting Al Horford and drafting Childress, Marvin, and Shelden. We need to put the NBDL around Horf and Horf is no Wade or T-Mac. You put the NBDL around Horf, we will suck to the tenth degree. Getting a late lotto pick like Acie Law isn't tanking. After the top 7, you can't expect to get an impact player. You just hope to get an All Star player at best and everything after that is great.