Wretch

I watched him play all season long VERY closely. He's not a flashy, playmaking wizard like Kidd. But as far as a guy who you can plug into the point and have him effectively execute the offense? Yeah, he can do that. He knows how to find the open guy, and he makes excellent passes. He's got good handles and he's atheltic and on a few occasions, I've seen him attack the basket. If he's going to be more effective at the one, he needs to break down the defense more often. I've seen him make some NICE plays off the dribble; and he's made some great passes to guys that couldn't finish. Boris needs time playing point. If he works at it, and they give him PT at the 1, I am 100% confident that he can be a better than average PG. He's got the instincts, the court vision, and the physical ability to do it. His aggressiveness will be the determining factor.

Like I've been saying... I like Kenyon, but that's A LOT of money to throw at a guy who hasn't proven that he is indeed a max player. For a team like us, who is rebuilding, it just doesn't make sense right now to lock up POTENTIAL max talent to a long term deal. Especially when you have NO idea who we'll be drafting, and who could be busting out... Which could be either or BOTH of those guys if we sign them.

He's only earning around 6 - 7 million per season.

This is an excellent trade. I've been stuck in neutral on Billy Knight for a while now, but I'm letting go of some of my reservations now. I didn't think we'd be resigning Jax and it didn't really bother me considering where we're going (with the players we drafted) and how much money we'll have. But the biggest reason that I wasn't too concerned, and why I'm stoked about this deal, is because we basically signed Jax for peanuts. So we pick up a guy for nothing and now we've dealt him for a player that could break out for us and fills a need. We come out WAY ahead on this. Great move Billy Knight!

They have the right to match any offer sheet he signs. So that would be the signing...and if he agrees to be traded, I don't see why that wouldn't work. Regardless, KMart hasn't signed the contract. So, I'm speaking of an either or situation...as in... Either NJ decides to match the contract or KMart and NJ come to terms on a SNT. Either way, I think there is much more to this than what's being said. Jay's got a good writeup on it.

Bad contract. I love Kenyon's game, but that contract is too fat for me. I don't care what anyone in the Atlanta camp says, this is mostly about creating buzz. New Jersey may very will match the offer or come to terms with Kenyon on a SNT (very likely), so tossing out a token max contract offer just to show the city and potential free agents that we do exist and we are serious about winning is a VERY good move. That is...if the intention was simply to create buzz and if they don't expect KMart to actually sign...and if they don't expect NJ to match or pursue a SNT... Else, I'm not very comfortable with that fat contract... I like KMart, I don't think he's worth that much. Not to us.

Is that KMart doesn't strike me as a "must have" talent. If he were putting up the kind of numbers that justify a max contract, that would make him a "must have" commodity. You could even argue that coming to Atlanta, with no other scoring options to take the heat off of him...playing beside the antithesis of the league's premier point guard that his numbers might even decline. What I'm saying is this isn't a guy that we can't live without. This isn't a Kobe Bryant, Duncan, or McGrady entertaining free agency. This isn't even Jermaine Oneal. This is a guy whose own team isn't sure about his worth and I can name AT A MINIMUM 10 guys who I would take at PF over Kenyon Martin...AT LEAST 10. And this doesn't include guys who have just come into the game like Okafor, Howard, or Amare... That's not saying that he isn't good. I like his game. But when you are talking about dropping 85 million over 6 years...this guy needs to be in the upper echelon of players, especially at his position.

Quote: I got some questions for Wretch, Diesel, and whoever else wants to reply. 1. If we need a competent front court, and Kmart costs too much who, specifically, will be a part of it? And if you say Swift break down how much you think he is worth, and how much you think he will actually sign for. We don't need to build our entire team of the future in one off season. We don't need good or great players in the post. We are trying to compete and we are trying to develop these players. If we were trying to win, then we'd be out courting all these 2nd tier front court players at ridiculous prices. If we sign Kenyon Martin I can guarantee you one thing - it will be less about how much he "fits" and more about making a big splash. Signing him to a reasonable contract probably won't happen, because New Jersey will match any reasonable offer. I'm not an agent. I'm not a GM. I'm not an NBA player. I don't rattle off player contracts. I could go around and break down raise percentages, contract lengths, CBA specifics and whatnots...but it's a waste of my time. Swift is a player that I would pursue and he will cost HALF of what KMart is asking for HALF as long. If KMart were a legit 20/10 guy, this would be a no-brainer. But he is not. And dropping a max contract on a player that may or not give you the production of a max player when you are not even one full season into rebuilding is f#cking stupid. Quote: 2. If the Twolves and Lakers can afford to pay Shaq and Garnett $30 million per year, why can we not afford to pay Kmart $13-14 million per year? We are in 2004. We are in a new collective bargaining agreement. NOBODY drafted into this CBA is getting more than our current player MAXIMUM. That means that Shaq is a max player as is Garnett. Their value under the new CBA is 6 years/85 Million...or 1/4th of the payroll. The Twolves signed Garnett to that huge deal and it was a mistake. Dude, the salary cap is JUST now reaching 45 million dollars and KG takes up 30! That means they have exactly 15 million dollars to divided between 12 positions. The difference here is that KG is MINNESOTA'S free agent. They resign KG, and most of the players on that team, through Bird Rights - they exceed the cap for certain players and either keep them or deal them for players that they need. But if Sprewell left right now as a FA, they would be powerless to replace his 14 million dollar salary slot. They'd have to rely on an exception. Same with Shaq. The answer to your question is simple: they cannot afford these contracts, but they cannot afford to lose these stars for nothing. They have been shrewd in manuvering around them. We can't afford Shaq or KG at 30 million and we can't afford KMart at 14+. Quote: 3. Let's say the Hawks do not overpay for a front court this season, and play Collier, Rebraca, and Pryzbilla. Wouldn't this whole season be about developing 2-3 players we just drafted, and what if they turn into busts? If they bust, then we'll be looking at drafting 1 through 5 for the next couple of years. So, we'll get equal or better replacement talent somewhere (frontcourt/backcourt). Not only that, but maybe we can work a trade like Cleveland did...trading a frontcourt "bust" for a backcourt "gem." Who KNOWS who'll be available in free agency next year... Who KNOWS who'll have a breakout season that we can sign. We don't have to have a perfect team on the floor next season and we DAMN SURE don't HAVE to pay Kenyon Martin 14+ million a season. Quote: -This is another reason I'm for signing Martin you are not putting all your hopes for the team on unproven players. I don't want to risk wasting another season, and have to go back to the drawing board again. We would only be doing this for a matter of months. It's not like these are the only players that we're going to have for the next 5 years. We are rebuilding. We're building a house from the ground up. Hastily dropping all that money on KMart is the equivalent of dropping a mobile home on an empty lot. It's a quickfix. Quote: 4. Let me give some examples of contenders that have players with bad contracts: Minnesota- Wally Sczerbiak; I don't even know how to start approaching this... Minnesota's payroll is over 70 million dollars. They have some very high priced players that are not worth what they pay them. They did this for a PUSH at a championship. This push will lose it's force over the coming couple of seasons and Minnesota will find itself with one player taking 67% of it's payroll and unable to surround that player with others to get them back to that playoff level. Quote: Dallas- Fortson, Bradley, Walker, Finley, others Dallas has a billionaire owner who wheels and deals pieces to fit what they need. These pieces have been swapped around and redealt for better or equal talent that they were already paying for. Cuban has no intention of keeping most of these guys longterm nor is he inking most of these deals. He's aquiring pieces for pieces he already has and then he deals them until he get's something they can hold on to. The exception would be Finley as Dallas' own free agent. Not only that, but many of these moves were made SO THAT DALLAS COULD WIN. Cuban has MUCH money and his team is in a WIN NOW MODE going for the championship. Our situation is almost exactly the opposite. Quote: Sacramento- Webber, Bibby Webber was signed under the old CBA, just like Garnett. BUT HE WAS A SURE THING WHEN THEY SIGNED HIM. Still is. Bibby is not overpaid in my opinion. But both of these players are essential to a team that is trying to win a championship. Quote: Detroit- Sheed Detroit acquired Rasheed for spare parts and mid 1st rounder. They just won the championship and are resigning Rasheed to a fraction of his current deal. Quote: New Jersey- Mourning, Kittles Kittles was signed under the old CBA, but his deal is only worth around 8 million a season. Before his knee problems, he was probably worth that. Mourning was supposed to be on the road to recovery...but NJ just came off of a finals appearance and they were looking to make a run at the championship. Quote: Miami- Jones, Grant *LOL* *LOL* *LOL* *LOL* *LOL* *LOL* *LOL* Miami is not a contender...but I bet they'd like to dump both of these guys to make a stab at Kenyon Martin, Kobe Bryant, Gary Payton (if he had opted out), Rasheed Wallace, Okur, or Swift...but they are capped out. Hmmm...wonder why... Quote: If one bad contract can totally cripple a team, how come so many teams compete and go deep in the playoffs in spite of bad contracts? These are all championship teams that did their rebuilding through the draft and were making pushes toward a championship when they signed their bad contracts. You take that kind of risk when you are going over the top. If Chill was averaging 20 ppg/7 rpg/6apg... Diaw was the point man averaging 15 ppg/8 rpg/and 7 apg... JSmith was averaging 25ppg/8rpg... I would probably sign Kenyon Martin to a max contract in a heartbeat. We just drafted these guys...there is no need to try bring in a questionable talent for MAXIMUM money. That would be taking a gamble that is not neccessary talent-wise. To attract buzz...maybe. But not to build the team. Quote: 5. All teams take chances on players. There are only a few unquestionable superstars in the league. Do you think you can build a contender by only signing superstars to big contracts? NO CONTENDER IS BUILT IN ONE OFFSEASON. NO CONTENDER IS BUILT IN ONE OFFSEASON. NO CONTENDER IS BUILT IN ONE OFFSEASON. NO CONTENDER IS BUILT IN ONE OFFSEASON. NO CONTENDER IS BUILT IN ONE OFFSEASON. NO CONTENDER IS BUILT IN ONE OFFSEASON. These teams are built over YEARS of shrewd drafting, dealing, and free agent signing. We have JUST BEGUN our rebuilding. There is absolutely NO REASON to invest 6 years at 85 million dollars in Kenyon Martin...other than to make a splash with the community of Atlanta. In 4 or 5 years when we are looking at trying to retain our own free agents we will have 14+ million dollars less to deal with...and 14+ million dollars less to spend on free agents that we KNOW we'll need then. Quote: Everyone thinks Detroit won a championship the right way. They had team play, defense, no superstars, and no heavy contracts, but what about Rasheed Wallace? He was making like $17-18 million. They took a chance, and won a title. Why shouldn't the Hawks do the same thing with players that become avaiable to them? Because the Pistons were not built overnight and Atlanta Hawks are not trying to win a championship next season.

He'll hire someone else to harvest it. No sense in bringing in a big name coach who you'll fire for not getting results on a developing basketball team.

Quote: true enough...but it also began long before that, when mgt. realized that Ricky was stemmying (sp) LeBron's development, primarily because LeBron deferred to Ricky too much, and this wasn't usually best for the team or his development as a leader or playmaker in his own right. I don't think it was as much about winning as much as it was about development. The Cavs were to be LeBron's team and that couldn't happen as long as Davis was there - or it would have taken longer. The real change came when they dealt away Darius Miles. If they were strictly in development mode, they would have held on to the kid. But they made the trade for McInnis, a veteran PG, to stabilize the club and make a push for the playoffs. Quote: Additionally, the Cavs would have beat out the Celtics if McInnis hadn't gotten hurt...because that subsequently led to a huge meltdown, as the team no longer how to function properly, most likely because they're young, plain and simple. Yep. They need him to anchor the young team and to win. Quote: It's not just about "leadership." It wouldn't be like we're getting a bad player, or even a mediocre one. We'd be getting a guy well known, marketable, and with great desire (similar to that of Artest)...not to mention he's athletic, thus fitting the playing style and demeanor of this team. In many ways, I would liken it to what the Mavs did several years ago in signing Finley, or even the Suns signing of Marion... The big difference was that these were their own players though. They had so much already invested in them. It's the same situation with NJ and KMart; he's asking for a lot of money but if the Nets don't pony up...they could be looking at losing him for nothing next season. What do we really lose if we don't sign him to big money? Quote: you get a guy that is a very good player, all-star calibre. Plus, he does all the little things. His personal production value may not warrant the contract...but he would provide championship experience and a desire to win. Two things that are often difficult to find...especially in a guy not even "entering his prime" in terms of years of age. I don't disagree with any of that. But I don't think we are in a position to take a gamble on a large contract. For Kobe...for TMac...for Kidd...for Duncan...yes. For Kenyon, I think we can wait to see how things play out in the next season or so. If we could sign him for a reasonable price, I'd have no objections...but then again, he'd probably get matched just as soon.

Quote: Even if childress turns in Tracy McGrady he is not going to win anything without a talented front court. Agreed. But when is it important that we start winning? We don't have to win sh#t next season - whether that be 10 or 15 games, it just doesn't matter right now. We need to compete, and we need to have a competent front court; but we are not so desperate for a front court player that we have to drop a huge contract on Kenyon Martin. Quote: The Bulls and Clippers are great examples of teams which are/were stockpiled with high draft picks and talented youngsters. Neither team, despite 3-4 years worth of development have been able to improve because of the lack of leadership. And that leadership starts in the front office where both teams have failed miserably. The Clippers are victims of BAD DRAFTING, poor player relations, and ILL MANAGEMENT. The Bulls have been trying to build exclusively through the draft - relying in players with poor work ethic. Quote: No lets look at Cleveland, with young stars Lebron, Boozer, Wagner, etc. They made a playoff run this year because they made a trade for veteran leadership, i.e., Williams and Battie. Indiana turned over a veteran ladden roster a few years ago by getting rid of the Davis' and adding youngsters O'Neil, Harrington, Bender and Tinsley. The team was able to continue to win because the remaining veterans on the roster were able to bridge the learning curve. But things only really took off in Cleveland when they shifted LeBron from 1 to two and made a move for McInnis. Nobody expected LeBron to play that well. If they did, and if the plan had been to win, then these moves would have been made MUCH sooner - and the Cavs would have been in the playoffs. Quote: The Hawks currently have no leadership in place. A good coach can help with the youngsters development, but you also need some on the court that can give someone a kick in the ass every now and then to work harder. Martin could do that for the hawks. But at what price? I'm not saying that we needn't sign Kenyon Martin or that we don't need a player like him. However, we are coming up with all kinds of reasons to justify signing him to a ridiculous contract. There is only one reason to pay a player that much money - AND THAT WOULD BE THE PLAYER BEING WORTH IT. You don't spend a max contract on a guy just so he can come in and provide leadership. Quote: I am not suggesting that the Hawks need to win now, or even next year. But the attitude with many of us right now is that this guy is a MUST HAVE. And there is absolutely NOTHING must have about his game. NOTHING. I like him and he's a good player and he'd fit perfectly for us, but that doesn't justify paying him the money that he is looking for; nor does that mean that we need to commit the future of our frontcourt to him. If we sign him, that's basically what we're saying. We don't know who to build this team around. We don't know who will be available next season. We don't know how good our players are going to be. We don't know anything except we need to get these guys on the court and break them in. We need front court help and we need to surround them with vets - but development should be the focus, not winning. Any decisions made with intentions towards winning are premature - unless it involves a sure thing. KENYON MARTIN IS NOT A SURE THING. He is not neccessary to properly build this club.

It is SOOOOO not important for these kids to get out there and win right now. EVERYBODY loses. The guys that are drafted high are the best players in the league, but they come to the WORST teams. Unless they are the type of player like Shaq or David Robinson that can turn a team around overnight, then there will be MUCH losing going on. Losing doesn't stop players from becoming good or great; nor does it keep a team from winning in the future. In the end, it is the players that have to determine their own destiny. Either they are capable of winning or they are not. But they must first be allowed to develop. You can't have both. It just doesn't work. Honestly, we need to not get ahead of ourselves and just give these guys enough time and space to grow. If we can sign Kenyon for a decent deal, then go for it. If he wants too much, let him go and keep an eye out for the future. You don't know who we'll be drafting next year, who will be available in the years to come, what our players will become, or what we may trade to get what we may need. Just let our players develop before we start talking about what we need to compliment them with.

Quote: To Mr. Wrench I understand your hesitation, Wretch. Quote: but don't compare Martin to Alan Henderson or even SAR. We have a desperate need here in Atlanta not just for talent, but also for community interest. So, what you are saying is that the decision to make a major free agent acquistion should in our case be based mostly on desperation. I understand the need to spark interest in a team with no identity. Though I question how desperate we are. For sure, there has been little interest in this team for quite a while; yet, you can not convince me that 2 or 3 more years without Kenyon Martin is going to significantly damage our forgotten franchise. You can not convince me that it will really matter if we don't turn things around right now. I'm not convinced that K-Mart is anything more than a complimentary player, that he can carry our franchise, or that he is worth investing 1/4th of our payroll into. Will he get better? That is the gamble that you drop a max dime on, but not one that we desperately need to. Quote: If we sign Swift or Thomas they are both commanding at the very least the MLE, I think they will get over that. Don't you think those could be bad contracts as well? True enough. But this is also a MUCH smaller gamble than a max contract. It's easier to swallow now, still leaves MUCH flexibility, and is easier to move later on. Quote: So if we don't sign them then we have a front court of stiffs for the year, and highly inexperienced wing players. That's why it's called rebuilding. The project is never as pretty as the finished production. I could give a sh#t less what this team looks like over the next couple of years as long as the talent that we acquire shows promising development. Quote: I'm excited about our draft picks and Diaw, but these guys are learning on the job. Next year who will want to come to the Hawks as a FA? Well, taking into account not signing KMart, not having our rookies, or next year's rookie(s), we would have the exact same team as this year. So if our chances right now are good or even decent at landing a marquee free agent (as we are suggesting KMart is) then our chances would be exactly the same next year. But who knows how this club will develop next year? Who knows who we might sign in free agency... Who knows how good our next coach (Woodson?) is going to be? So chances are, we could be a much better team next year, which would actually make us a more attractive team to free agents than we are currently. Quote: The Hawks have to do something as a franchise. They need to sell tickets and jerseys, as well as build a winning team. This is not going to happen over night. That's what the rebuilding process is for - and why the analogy was made to turning a ship around. Sometimes it is best to swing it wide, rather than try to make the sharp 180. Throwing a max contract at KMart is an act of desperation that may or may not pay off. I wouldn't gamble a fourth of our payroll on it. Quote: It is debateable whether or not Kmart is worth the max, but for our situation I think we have to do it. He is a position of great need, and seems to fit in to the style of play we are building for. KMart would definitely fit here, no question; but he is not currently worth a max contract...not to us. We have our own players to groom and develop; eventually, we'll have to pay for them too. At which time we'll be limited in our flexibility with them and if KMart does not become a cornerstone then we are saddled with his salary and excluded from acquiring the big ticket that we KNOW we'll need then. Quote: All of those top players like KG, Duncan, Kobe, and O'neal are not coming to Atlanta anytime soon. Kmart maybe isn't a cornerstone of a franchise, but we need to make Atlanta a place that players want to come to. IF we have the money available to do that after signing rookies, free agents, and Kenyon Martin to a MAX deal. The better route for us would be to put faith into the players that we drafted and pursue guys that could be special that we DON'T have to drop a max dime on. And who knows? We might have drafted or might draft the next top player that everyone wants to play with...I'd like to have as much money available as we can at that time. Quote: I just don't think that signing Lorenzen Wright's backup, Swift, is going to help in that department. Signing a big name player to a big deal says to the league, and the fans, we want to compete and we want to win. We don't know what Swift will be any more than we know what KMart will be. We do know how much it will cost us in both situations. Regardless, until we start playing the games that matter it doesn't matter WHO we pursue in the post. Quote: And for those who think signing Kmart is being excessive, please tell me who you want to bring in and for how much? I think you would embarass yourself answering that question. The point is not for us to win next season. It would be great, it would be positive, it would attract attention. Realistically, we are rebuilding and we can't expect these guys to go out and bring us an 8 seed. So honestly, it wouldn't matter if we put a scarecrow down there in the post. We can't spend like we are going over the top either. That would be a mistake. With all that being said, there are guys out there that will command much less than a max contract. Most of the names have already been discussed, Swift, Okur, Foyle, Dampier... We've got guys that we can throw down in the post too in Collier and Pryz. There are a ton of big bodies that we could sign just for the hell of it, just to get by and even more that we could make a deal for. It's just not neccessary right now to go out and try to build our team of the future in one off-season. Getting KMart would be an absolute POSITIVE for our franchise. As a player, there is NOTHING wrong with him and I would be ecstatic to watch him play in a Hawks uniform EVEN IF WE PAID THE MAX FOR HIM. But this is nothing more than a case of grocery shopping when you're hungry. In two years there may be MUCH better options for us in the post - it could even be Josh Smith; but we won't know until we get there and I would settle my future on Kenyon Martin not at a maximum salary.

Whether it's 8 million for Hendu, 7 million for Mo Taylor, 3 million for Chris Crawford, or 16 million to Alan Houston. It's a waste of a precious cap space. Big spending teams that are looking to go over the top can afford to take on contracts like that. These are teams that are pretty much set and know exactly what they need. For a team trying to rebuild, the last thing that you want to do is hand someone a max contract without knowing that they are indeed a max player. Regardless of what teams were paying under the old CBA, the new agreement has set a limit on player salaries. This maximum salary currently eats up 1/4 of a team's yearly payroll - that's a huge chunk. You don't pay that to good players, you pay that for great players. Unless the league agrees during negotions to eliminate that cap on player salaries, this isn't going to change. KG might be making upwards of 28 million per year, but that doesn't change his value to a team under the new CBA. If KG were the same player, hell even if he averaged 50 ppg and 20 rpg, if he were drafted into the new CBA he will get no more than the league max. Bottom line: Kenyon Martin isn't worth half of 30 million and KG, regardless of his ridiculous deal (that sparked changes in the CBA), would get no more than the league maximum now. All that being said, regardless of how much cap space they have, the Hawks are not in a position to overpay for free agents. We need to build this team, draft wisely, develop our talent, and approach free agency cautiously - unless there is a sure thing available for the max. There are very few players that are worth a maxium salary and right now, Kenyon Martin is not one of them.

Is how often Vince is injured. Seems like every season there is something that puts Vince on the bench for extended amounts of time.

He's gone after the season and he's our asset. So the reasoning was give him up for nothing, or hold on to him for another season to see if we could get something. With K-Mart, it's only about the length of our commitment to him. I LIKE HIS GAME! He would be an absolute PERFECT compliment to this team...but that could change in the coming years as could his ceiling. At which time, we'd be saddled with the next player who's salary continually pops up in the dump list. I'm sure the Knicks thought Houston was the perfect fit and I'm sure Miami thought Brian Grant would get them over the hump... While I am torn on K-mart, I just don't think I'd drop all that money on him. MAYBE at a deal starting around 9 - 10...but I don't know.

If we dealt JT, then it'd be like picking up 4 - 5 million in salary... Still doesn't justify giving K-Mart the max, but surely takes some of the sting out of it. Just throwing that out there for sh#t's sake.

Yes, there are plenty of young guys coming into the league and yes, there are spoiled veteran players who act like boys - but these guys are still miles above the competition faced at the college level. Most of the players coming into the college system are raw and are desperately looking to get to the next level. It's a different set of players. The pro game is faster, lasts longer, and it PAYS MILLIONS. You have to have guys that understand that and can effectively manage it.

No matter how much the rules change or what type of players come in, the NBA still represents the creme of the crop. These guys are highly skilled and highly paid. It's a different set of egos, ambitions, and competition. You need professional coaches that can manage professional players through professional basketball.

I REALLY want to see him at the point.

But I say that half heartedly. I respect K-Mart's game and I would LOVE to have him in Atl. He's energetic, quick, and rough. Every team needs an enforcer and Kenyon is that type of player. His numbers, however, just don't justify that kind of spending. The problem is mostly timing. A team like Dallas would pay him the max in a heartbeat...a team like Atlanta is still trying to figure out what it is. In 2 or 3 years, we may know exactly what we need, but Martin's max deal could potentially cripple us - think Houston, Brian Grant, Antoine Walker, Eddie Jones. Productive players that, if were paid half of what they are making would give certain teams SO much flexibility. I don't want to be the next team shopping the newest unmoveable commodity. Max contracts are for sure things. They are for the guaranteed impact players - Garnett, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, McGrady... They are not for players that you HOPE will become the next big thing. There are better options. It just takes patience and better gambling.

I've been saying it forever - the Hawks have no identity and no history. That is why the fans have abandoned the franchise. Even when we were winning, and making the playoffs, visiting fans (and home grown defectors) dominated our arena. Why? Because since we traded Nique, there has been nothing basketball-wise for this city to identify with. We're talking TEN YEARS here. We were successful at times, but we were boring. No Jordan, no Magic, no Stockton/Malone, no Barkley, no Shaq, no Penny, no Garnett, no Hill, no Iverson...no athleticism, no excitement, nothing. Just the occasional finger wag from Deke that actually became a staple promotion for opposing teams when they dunked on him. We couldn't excite, we couldn't get passed the 1st round, and when we started to rebuild...we made every possible mistake you can think of. There truly is a "culture of losing" surrounding our franchise. The only way to change that is to COMPLETELY rebuild this franchise and rebuild it around an exciting team that can go out and win games, that has a marketable identity.

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In all of the clips that I've seen. They've got him playing the post in HS, and his game really resembles more of a post player right now. On his drives, he takes a couple of long strides then he takes off. For a PF he looks quick and he could be devastating. But he just doesn't look like a springy SF that could take a wing player off the dribble.

He looked pretty quick in those clips and that quickness (and strength conditioning) will be the determining factor in his development. He's going to be fun to watch. Smooth does seem kinda slow. MUCH slower than Howard... I know he doesn't have the handles yet, but he'll either have to develop that or refine his game down on the blocks. His game down there resembles a PF...off the glass, the put backs, post up game. He's tall so they had him playing the post in HS, but I think he'll grow a little taller and put on a little more weight and he'll definitely play some PF. I've been worried about his development though. I can see why so many teams passed on him. The only thing NBA about his game right now is his athleticism. Granted, he can jump into the clouds...still, he'll have to take it to the glass more and nail that J consistently if he's going to be a 3, if not, he'll have to bulk up and play the 4. Honestly, I think he has more potential there.