Wretch

You know what's crazy about this...? The fact that we protected our picks. Had we not, it's pretty eye opening evaluating what the deal could have been. We gave them the Lakers pick in the 2006 NBA draft - that became Rajon Rondo. We took Shelden Williams, but there's a lot of talent from 1-14 they could have selected from LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, JJ Riddick, or Thabo Sefalosha. Diaw + Rondo + the lesser of the talent pool available is an even swap. The higher side of that talent pool makes this a better deal for Phoenix. But say we only protected the pick in 2006 though. Now that package is Diaw + Rajon Rondo + Kevin Durant, Al Horford, or Mike Conley (asset since Pho already has a PG). Joe Johnson is not worth that. There are a couple other considerations here. First, all of the lottery picks have "potential" value as an asset. So while in hindsight we can see the total valuation, if you look at these as assets in the context of the timeframe...there's no telling how they could have been used. More importantly though, Sarver kept a tight payroll. Although JJ was a breakout player, he was still a 4th option in Phoenix. There was a strong belief that Phoenix would not match a max contract offer. There was no negotiation from our end though because Billy Knight was enamored with Joe Johnson. JJ was to be the point guard in BK's all 6'8" vision and why we passed on all of the fantastic PG options when everyone in the world knew that we needed one. He would have paid any price and he did. Also in our favor was the fact that Joe Johnson asked out. There was no competition for him. Clevlend was the only other real suitor. They got cold feet and went after Jerry Brickhouse. Boris Diaw + 1 declining protected pick is a fair deal (and unnecessary IMO) and less risky deal than we gave up. We could have been singing a different tune had there been no protection and Durant or Horford landed in Phoenix. Yes Joe Johnson was an amazing signing for us. Yes we overpaid for it. The two points are not mutually exclusive and there is never a reason not to negotiate a deal as best you can. In both cases, we failed.

If that just don't say it all for me...

I was suggesting the same for a long time. His injury history had me slightly concerned, but not enough to pass him up. I was really upset when we missed on that. All of this.

He small doe...

These are fair points, but it honestly feels like we're talking past each other here. The "overpay" (for lack of a better word) and mismanagement you're drawing attention to have areas of overlap.

Too often, I think we forget the human side of the whole game. These aren't robots that have 100% predictable binary responses. They're not parts that you can just swap in and out. There is very much a mental aspect of this game that IMO affects things moreso than anything else.

Trae is Trae. Regardless of whether people think he's 1A or 1B (and he is one of those), Trae is no different than any other star player in that he needs the right complimentary star and the right environment. Nobody does it alone.

So, it's not a bad trade as much as it looks poorly negotiated. IE - The car is great, we just paid the sticker price for it. Same as the Joe Johnson trade IMO.

The only thing that is right about this team is Trae Young. Bring all the hate. Bring all the trash. Bring all the "bad" stats. All of it. I don't care. Mostly because I'm drunk and bucket nekkid in Jamaica RN...but also because, Trae is a rare breed and he is literally the hardest piece to find among the ridiculous amount of things you look for when building a contender. Book mark this, because I'm going to be positively... O B N O X I O U S ...when someone figures out what to do with him and that team breaks the NBA. I said what I said. Don't @ me. *Sober edit - I'm withholding judgement on Quin until we assemble the right team. I am leaning towards him also being a good thing.

People are always think that there's "this one weird trick" to building a contender. It's the player or the coach or the defense or the offense...it's always one thing and everybody has their one thing they reach for. Truth is, the game is very nuanced and there's a chemistry that makes it work. It's the right combination of elite talent surrounded by supporting talent with the right philosophy on both ends of the court. We have some really good parts in that. They just don't fit together the right way. The front office has only compounded this issue. Leaving the tank early, and switching GM's are the two that don't sit well with me. The DJM trade was fine, but I was never comfortable with the overpay on those picks. The 2025 pick is fair with the pick swap mostly fair. There should have been lottery protections on that 2027 pick and I'm sure I said as much during the trade. That's a straight up yikes for me and the way it's set up, keeps us from exploring our rebuilding options should we have to. I still think with some smart moves and the interest in the guys we have that this is salvageable one way or another. Just no more reactionary bullsh!t.

Incoming: Over usage of the following words/phrases: culture, competitive, hard work, works hard, good player WLOC "With the 17th pick in the <20XX> NBA draft, the Atlanta Hawks select..." Smart contracts 1 Nationally Televised game Every single Squawk thread: Tank/No We need a star/We had one We made it to the ECF's with Trae/We did it in 2015 without him Insider thread: "Don't expect the Hawks to do anything significant" Defanse!TM, Quality VeteransTM, Serviceable Big ManTM .ESPN's obligatory Annual Hawks story: Hawks backup PF involved in DUI stop "We welcome you back to <NOT ATLANTA> where the Hawks look to stave off First/Second round elimination, down 3-1.."

Oh well... Gonna try rolling the dice on a scummy pirate link I guess. Since the only relevant Hawks fans are those living in ATL... Why do I even pay for this Bally Sharts App

I can't even find the link to stream it...... Where are ya'll watching it at?

You guys are special too! Dude, you're no lower than my 675th favorite poster and @Spud2nique is...my...um...he's..........has a cool screen name!

This is why you are my favorite poster my man (even when I disagree with you lol!). Your points are always balanced between statistical and observational analysis. I'm a security engineer and advanced statistical analysis is literally what I do all.....day....long....every...day. There is so much nuance to basketball though that I just avoid getting sucked into the polarizing arguments. I will literally sit on this board F5-ing all day on a merry-go-round. The downside of that is I have to watch through gritted teeth while people use stats to make obviously tilted arguments - so I appreciate seeing seeing you (and @AHF too) drop these kinds of logic bombs.

fixd

Reading between the lines, everything is making sense now. All of it I think...

You know why I'm here...

Hold on. Say what now @Wretch...? Oh. Yeah, that's what I thought Wretch said. Wait... Did I just refer to myself in 3rd person? Well yeah but before that you tagged yourself. Dude, who are you talking to? Who are YOU talking to? (Awkward silence) I dunno honestly. I was just coming to this thread to find something I thought I said and toot my own damn horn...but it's just gotten weird now. Jalen Johnson is dope y'all.

I'm just now getting around to watching the Wiz game. I've been high on Jalen since his SL debut...but after watching this game and the growing synergy between him and Trae, I'm starting to REALLY believe. My Spidey-sense goes off every time I see those two start off on the break together.

I know Soth. I'm not worried about them making bad moves as much as I'm lamenting the fact that I actually like THIS team and it sucks that it's not working. I know that we have to do something, but I have a strange attachment to this squad top to bottom. I honestly just like this group of guys and every game I tune in hoping it will be the spark that turns things around. For those who would chime in, I'm aware that I am living in the past. I know the ECF fairytale is over - been over and time to let it go. Still stings...especially with the high hopes I had for DJ. I wasn't as high on his game as most were, but I loved his attitude. I thought for sure we were there man.

I know we are getting conflicting reports and whatnot...but I really want this to be true and I want it to turn out for the best. It sucks watching one of my favorite Hawk teams slide into mediocrity and get pulled apart piece by piece.

I'm also on "team believe." There is nothing wrong with Trae and DJ. JJ does look like a star in the making and if he is, then he's the answer to what people perceive is wrong with our offense. I don't know if we can win the East, but the potential in JJ is a start. I would only add that if JJ isn't going to be that player, then we have to find him - and not turn down an opportunity to bring him in if it's on the table.

Also...if we trade Jalen Johnson for a Siakam rental, I'm out for the season and for the foreseeable future if it turns into just a rental.