Wretch

Year six just starting... The hate and disrespect our guy gets is just downright...bizarre.

I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand this... We GOT one. We finally got one and he's absolutely amazing. We have to do what it takes to put the right team around him. You know GM's and fans around the league are salivating....just waiting for the door to crack open on his availability.

I mean......................... I like Draymond. A LOT. I think he's the kind of venom that every team needs. Much as I dislike him. I love him. That said.... LOL...c'mon man. My guy is out here kicking dudes in the nuts, stomping ninjas out, snapping necks, and tornado back-handing cats. ROTMFFLMMFAO...this the same jive turkey that gave his own teammate the absolute coldest and cleanest fade the NBA has EVER seen. I'm sorry dude, but he's being penalized because he's trying to take out half the basketball universe and he has to be stopped...!

Missed this update, thanks Soth. My thoughts here... I would only include AJ on a blockbuster upgrade. I am not a fan of "throwing in" players to make it work for lateral moves - where the throw in player has legitimate upside. The idea that a backup guard and 2 tsps of defensive dust is going to magically transform this mediocre team into a contender is absurd. I agree 100% with Trae. Hopefully we're monitoring availability to pounce on something. There's a small (and shrinking) window of potential with a few assets on this team. Not that I want to include JJ, but him + the pool of available guys around him could make for a solid deal. At this point, it's just PT/opportunities and some mental blockers. There's no way this dude has forgotten how to shoot in a single offseason. Lastly, about Siakam... I have coveted Siakam for years. His ability to move the needle defensively for us might be questionable (going by @Sothron's comments re: Toronto fans). However, I've watched him for a long time and his reputation for being a solid defender is legit. Honestly, it may just be a matter of motivation and his current situation. His ability to draw defenders into the paint is what's key here. If he can be a reliable post option that has to be respected, he's a good passer out of the post and it will open up opportunities for Trae and others. His 3pt shooting absolutely mortifies me. To me, that is as big a "YIKES" as some people see Zion's mental/physical health. If the inside/out game doesn't work with him, then we are literally back to square one with the offense - taking turns in the midrange. His age is a concern, but a little bit less. He's got a good 3-4 years in him. IF-IF-and-IF... IF - he hasn't fallen off defensively for some reason IF - his 3pt shooting is an anomaly or just the product of shot selection/circumstance like (he has been trash out there for a few years now) AND IF - his legs are on the +side of ~30 Then we should have a good 3-4 year window to compete. I would be okay with that, but not at a premium cost. Absolutely not. That's a gamble as is bringing him here and expecting him to stay. Which brings up my final point, no way I'm giving up anything substantial for him. He is a rental. The rental of rentals who wants out and should cost pennies on the dollar. For me, the bottom line is that he helps, and it could turn out fantastic if the stars align. Otherwise, Siakam is just "help" and not the "answer" we're looking for. Especially not long term.

I mean....lol

If the trade was reversed, and Trae was putting up these numbers in any other city, the media would celebrate him. Meanwhile, we'd have this pretty good, but not great player that needs to be less selfish and play better defense to take the next step. The haters battle cry would be, "He's great regular season player. He puts up great stats, but his defense is killing us. I'd trade him for Jalen Brown in a heartbeat." It really is a case of both teams getting an elite player. Haters have just bought into the popular narrative - aka the Hype Machine as you like to put it.

Listen man...I hear you. You don't think his body will hold up. You are concerned about his work ethic. You're worried about his mental toughness. You didn't like him before the draft and you don't like him now. I hear you loud and clear. I have zero concerns about any of it. I would give Trae and DJ the gravity of this is fat/unmotivated Zion with zero hesitation (and have strippers hand feeding him wings after every game): I won't convince you and you won't convince me, so let's put a pin in it and revisit down the road.

I'm still building around Trae and DJ. I'd rather not include JJ/AJ...but it's honestly whatever. I'd pull the trigger without thinking to put Trae and Zion together.

I've been saying for a while that there was substance to the reports that he wanted out. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

This is one of the reasons why I don't treat metrics as such a be-all indicator of performance/potential. Especially defensive metrics. There's more involved with defense than simply one singular player's literal impact. I feel like people throw defensive analysis and metrics around far too liberally and definitively. There are some players who have clear physical limitations...like an older guard with bad knees trying to stay in front of his man or an undersized PF/C trying to guard bigs down low. I've got not arguments with that kind of thing. But I don't put any stock into all of the superficial parroting of the "he don't play no defense" arguments about players. Particularly from those people with very clear agendas.

This is something that I said back when it happened. At a minimum we should have collected more assets to flip. I've had the same thought honestly. Not so much to see if it lights a fire, but because he would have more impact by default. In the starting lineup, he's just duplication of at least 2 players that are producing better than pretty much every one of his metrics. Coming off the bench, He would be a primary option. There would be more space for him to operate in the paint for rebounding opportunities as well. If he were so inclined... Imagine the backlash of Trae pairing up with a contender while we're winning 20 games a season and stuck in the cellar. Yikes. Fan interest in the Hawks and overall franchise relevancy had been on life support for decades before Trae. Atlanta can ill afford another hash mark on the Georgia sports curse... No way we're there now, but if we haven't figured it out by the time we get our own picks back though...it'll be about that time.

100% agree with all of this. My thoughts exactly. *edit, not the Murray part tho, didn't see you slid that in there.

I don't think the problem is Trae/DJ either. Honestly, it's a case where we have a lot of good parts in the starting lineup that don't fit great together. Resulting in a good, but not great team. With Hunter, the problem is that defense and size aside, he doesn't bring anything better, or even different, than what you get from DJ, Trae, or even JJ now. With the backcourt being fine, and if we're talking trades, I don't necessarily think we should look at it as try to upgrade Dre. I think if Jalen can guard the 3, then you evaluate whether a consolidation of Dre + <whatever> can upgrade SOMETHING in the frontcourt. That or we just continue the wait and see if the streaky offense settles down into a consistent rhythm. I'll say this much for the record... I don't dislike anybody on this team. I love this squad from top to bottom, even as we're middling. I don't think I've ever felt that way about a Hawks team. I tune into every game excited and I honestly whish that we could get it together without making any major moves.

Yep. Shooters have to shoot and he's not going to improve by as a cheerleader. This is how good players slip through the cracks and end up shining in a different environment. Not saying all he needs is PT, but AJ was consistently impressing last season. Too much to be buried on the bench.

There's a lot to be said on this topic... If you look at clutch wins as tracked by the NBA (games within 5 points of each other in the last 5 minutes of the 4th) we rank near the bottom. It's not that hard to understand why. The game slows down in crunch time and teams tend to go more iso/pnr. For us, it means we're back to Nate-balling. When we play teams that are soft in the middle, like the Bucks and pacers, we look like world beaters. When we play "handsy" teams like NY and Miami...the headlines read "Trae Young Exposed!" Good offense and good defense are not mutually exclusive. It not an either/or situation where wholesale changes or "A Serviceable Big ManTM" are going to magically solve our problems. Not pointing this at you @Diesel, because this thread reinforces my beliefs as well. Like you, I think we're closer to being a threat than a lot of people realize. If you're just looking at W/L's, box scores, and metrics, you won't see it. If you look back over the last couple of seasons at how we dominate in stretches, especially the last couple of seasons of storming back from double-digit deficits, you start to get an idea of what we could be. Collectively, excluding the hater outliers, I think we've come to a consensus on what's needed to make the leap.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-traditional https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-advanced

ALL. OF. THIS. All of it. If you struggle to put the ball in the basket when it counts, then you do not have an elite offense and your metrics are fools gold. If we want any hope of being better than a middle of the pack team, then it starts with getting Trae open AND putting capable finishers/shooters around him. Among the things we need to fix/tweak, our starting lineup is missing the secondary threat that would facilitate this. Surrounding Trae with a bunch of big bodies that rebound and defend will surely help us get stops. It won't matter if these same dudes are watching Trae and DJ going one-on-three against the zone.

*shrugs* This is why I'm always saying sell high....but FWIW, I think OO is fine. On both ends. We just need to figure out what we're doing with our front court. What really sucks losing JJ - so Hawks-like .

Much as I go on about a sniper in the starting lineup...Jalen Johnson has crept up to a very quiet 42% on 3s.

I've been on the fence about dipping into this thread, but this right here pulled me down. It's one of those things that I have been quietly speaking up on. There is a hard truth in "offense = defense." There's A LOT of hard truth in it and we witnessed much of it last night. Now, I don't think the style that Indiana plays is sustainable - so I'm not endorsing that. But the truth is that sometimes, your offense has to be your defense. Every night there's going to be one or TWO guys that can explode like Hali did and the best teams have them surrounded by the right mix of complimentary talent. We have to be able to score when it counts and that's where we struggle (not offensively as a whole). We look like world beaters against soft interior defense and we struggle against the zone and against physical teams (and everybody blames Trae). This is because offense and defense are more interconnected than people care to admit. The game is mental and is all about runs. Good defense will undoubtedly help but... I like this team a lot and I honestly think we're close. We need a true shooter in the starting lineup ideally paired with someone who can post up...if not just a stretch 5. On the other end of the court, it's not personnel or scheming issues. It's effort and putting a lid on runs. We absolutely cannot trade 2's for 3's. Not even if we're clicking on all cylinders. So if it comes down to it and we gotta pick a poison, I say "yolo" that sh!t and run the damn shooters off the 3pt line at all costs.

At first glance, it's an eye-opener fore sure...but I'd be interested in understanding how this is calculated. If it's only tracking scoring attempts off of isolation then yikes. If it's tracking all isolation plays, then it's a tilted stat penalizing him for passing. Other than that, it's interesting that he's so low on the possession side. An indicator of Quin moving the ball and validated by our climb from the bottom of the league in passes per possession.

Man...I'd REALLY like to see more of Okongwu face up. He's got a nice way of maneuvering in traffic.

Jalen Johnson is freakin' everywhere man. I'd like to see us keep feeding him. See how much he can handle. His game is looking strong...