cyman3

Ok, think about our roster from last season. No theo, kukoc, henderson (all who could have contributed in a big way). with a TERRY/ABDUR-RAHIM show we ended up missing the playoffs. Yet, if i remember correctly- take out our first half of the season... and we were playing .500 ball (can someone confirm me on this?). Now we have Theo + kukoc + henderson (a vet backup PF, he does a good job despite what people say. His only criticism seems to be his salary) back. On top of that, we are playing .500 ball without these players. But the hawks do have what i call "NO LUCK!" what i mean by this is: 1)half our team is injured last season 2)we finally go to the playoffs to vs the EASIEST SEED (8th seed knicks) and get swept 3)theo hasnt played more than 20 games as a hawk for 1.5 seasons. therefore i will say, with the IMPROVED ROSTER + .500 BALL CHEMISTRY from last yaer + our history of having NO LUCK... i will say we make the 7th or 8th seed.

Cuz babcock is excited about Leon Smith. He is totally convinced that hes a changed man. Smith views life and basketball in a different way now - according to media and the hawks staff. If he caused any mischief, im sure Babcock would just tell the kid to pack his bags cuz he cant sure get rid of this kid in any second. But im not hearing about this, whats ur source?

Have u heard what he has been doing since he left the MAGIC? Did he play CBA or overseas? Hes a great shooter and freethrows are his speciality. On our team, i can name only couple players who i can count on the make the important freethrows when the games on the line (my safest bet is JT). But isint he a PG? Where would he fit in our organization?

by no means did i mean to say TRADE DJ. I think we had a little misunderstanding here. what i meant was that DJ does the same thing as Posey, whats the purpose of having 2 DJs?

This debate can last forever and we are both stressing the same points. Im going to live with your opinion and thats the best i can do U do have the rite to have an opinion and im just gonna respect it even though i dont necessarly agree with you. btw- u still owe me a list of 25 players that are better than Dirk. You're not gonna get away with that. hehehehe last thing- whats up with u and tony parker? why u so cool with him and not a big fan of other euros? he doesnt have monster dunks (which u love) and his defense is at best decent. so whats up with the love of tony parker?

where 1)"Now you want to start insulting African American players" let me tell u something about myself. Im korean, my best friends are either african american or koreans. Those the people i like watching movies or playing ball with. We joke around, play hard, and its fun. Yet my best friend in the world is white. I have absolutely no problems with any races. tell me where im insulting african american players? As mentioned in almost all my posts here, all my scenarios are used for examples to counter ur messages. 2)"Hey don't dis the WNBA I am actually becoming a fan" i had a feeling u were gonna say this. therefore i said "thats why i dont watch WNBA (just a joke guys)." just a joke, some people dont read the fine print. all im saying is, if u can appreciate the shooting and dribbling of WNBA players... why not the same with EURO male players? WNBA players dont dunk (though i heard some can). By no means do i LOVE this euro players. In fact i was sooo happy that we got SAR instead of an unknown GASOL (and still am). All im saying is that these players DESERVE to be in this league and that they can run with these NBA players without looking like fools btw- ill check out Tamera Stocks on wnba.com after finishing up with this board.

"What has race got to do with it?" - it has to do with everything we're talking about. Euro players are a race of bball players u dont appreciate. That sum it up for? How many dunkers do u like in the NBA as of now? The common NBA players will appreciate the dunks of the following players Webber or Martin (allyoop), Oneal (on others), Bryant, Carter, Francis, McGrady, Jordan (they appreciate everything he does, even bricks). I prob left some players out. And the rest? When other players dunk, to the common NBA fan... its just a dunk - something all professional nba'ers should be able to do. "I DARE YOU to name 3 Europeans that bang inside, make atheletic moves to the hole and dunk" - Peja takes it strong to the whole, Gasol fears no one, Nowistki does take it strong and draw fouls. Im sorry that they cant finish the play when they are going towards the whole and get fouled. No everyone is like SHAQ and CARTER. I just named 3 players out of a small portion of NBA players (euro). Im almost about to give up. Plain and simple- if dunking means everything to u... lets trade all our players for dunkers. Get Brent Barry here and as well as Vince Carter. Who needs Ratliffs shot blocking when we have dunkers? trade him. he doesnt do spectacular dunks. Trade Terry, cuz i havent seen him do a 360 dunk. Trade Kukoc, cuz hes a great passer but doesnt dunk with style. If u only like the game cuz of the dunks, i guess im wrong and ur right- u have the right to hate EUROS as they are unfortunately soft as labeled. BUT IF u are like me and enjoy a varity portion of the game (the blocks, the steals, the money shots, the dunks, the rebounds) then lets not bash on the EUROs.

So ur telling me that ur major hate on EURO players is 1)too much Media attention for those non-deserving. 2)sissy ball ANSWERS: 1)I can totally understand why u would think like this. But hey, i think Webber got more attention than DIRK (sure he deserved it, he played better and reached further in the playoffs). By no means do the press think DIRK is the next MJ. He gets as much press as he deserves. Everyone gets Media attention. They also get it when they choke and the games on the line. Its part of the game. High school players who never did a thing get much media attention as well. So far, what did LeBron James do in the NBA? He scored as many points as I did thus far in the NBA (0). Im not saying he sucks, all im saying is that all athletes get attention. 2)Sissy ball? So if all the Euro players were athletic dunkers and not pure shooters, u wouldnt have much of a problem? I like diversity. I think we need both slashers and dunkers in this league. I agree that the game is boring when its all about the shooting, thats why i dont watch WNBA (just a joke guys). But sissy ball? Gasol taking it strong and dunking on KEVIN GARNETT is not IMO soft sissy ball/rich kids type ball. Thats straight up basketball! Dunking on a person (Carter on Weis) is just as fun and exciting as watching MJ shoot an "in ur facer" on __________ (fill in the blank with any NBA player). I like both, and we need both in the NBA.

After i read the MOTTOLA part. It seems to me like Babcock doesnt plan on adding him with a full roster of players. Looks to me like hes one of them "add-in players to make the deal go down" type players now.

Man, i usually agree with u whether im hawksfan1, cyman3, or defense3. But i gotta correct u on this: "You mean like Peja shooting up the big Airball when the game was on the line? " Diesel, would u rather have 1)a SHARPSHOOTER on the team that missed 1 important shot badly but makes it consistantly every other day.... 2)a BRICKLAYER 364 days a year, and makes 1 important shot in his life? which player would u want on the hawks? If u ever get this kind of opportunity to select 1 option, do the right thing!

"Tony Parker and Dik Novitzky, but overall most Europeans play that sissy ball I see rich Kids in the burbs play. Shoot, cry foul if someone breathes on you to hard, and run around showing how unathletic you can be." thats almost like saying i dont like black people playing ball cuz of RIDER and ODOM (which isint true, just used as an example). That comment above is just as bad as saying "american players play that IM-ALL-THAT-MR-SUPERSTAR play i see in the NBA. Win, smoke weed... say sorry to the media and smoke some more (Odom). Then Run around bitching about how they hate playing for this coach or this organization (Iverson). And then they go thinking they all that and decide to miss practice cuz they feel like it (many players, esp RIDER)." I was wrong to say what i did above and i dont agree that all players are like that. Only used as examples!

"It's about the american players decline in talent level and that IS happening." - i totally agree. The overall skill is dropping but the athleticism + strength is increasing. Look at ONEAL for a nice example. He can dunk on anyone. But after 10 ft, he has no skills. And Diesel, talking about FADS. I too agree that a dramatic increase in EURO players are a fad. But isint it same with NORTH CAROLINA PLAYERS, DUKE PLAYERS, HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS? Roshown McLeod, Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith imo are selected with the same FAD as selecting EURO PLAYERS. These days POTENTIAL is better than ACTUAL TALENT. If the went by talent, SHANE BATTIER would have been selected higher. Its all a fad. Lets not "put down" the EURO because of FAD, because its unfair. Everything is a FAD these days. They are just one of them.

"I am a immigrant myself so its not a hatred of Europeans that drives my post" - by no means am i calling u a racist or bigot so lets totally exclude this concept from our debate. EVERYONE - why are u guys comparing SHAQ, MCGRADY, CARTER with the Nowitski, Peja (im not even gonna try sp his last name), and Parker? Why dont u compare them against the Chris Dudleys or Ostertags? Its not fair to anyone comparing them to a SHAQ or MCGRADY. These guy are exeptional players. All im saying is that these players should receive some RESPECT. Lets not call Stoyakavic a total brick layer cuz of his airball in one of his most important minutes. I bet he gets it hard from the press enuf, the fans dont need to help. Would u put ur life into 1 shot? He messed up, but many players have. I remember Bryant airballing couple 3s his rookie year. By no means do i think Euro players are better than American players (in general). I love the way the bring the PURE SHOOTING back in the game. How many dunkers do we have in this game today? Carter, Bryant, Oneal, McGrady, list goes on. How many pure shooters are there in the NBA? At this time i can only think of 2, Ray Allen and Reggie Miller. Back in the day there was 1 pure shooter on every team. Wheres all the CHRIS MULLINs and old STEVE SMITHs? Like i said, i love the way these guys bring in the pure shooting. I love the dunkers as much as the shooters. BLACKHAWKDOWN- u say that Dirk isint a top 10 player. I can easily agree with you. But not a top 25 player, please list 25 players better than DIRK NOWITSKI- thats all i ask!

They have a questionmark with HILL and Ratliff isint exactly the toughest guy in the league. They need MILLER as much as we need MOHAMMED. What if Ratliff did go down this year (it would break our hearts, but wouldnt be too big of a surprise)? In that case we really need Mohammed more than Miller. I like Millers game, but the trade just doesnt make sense imo.

He was all over MOTTOLAs name... Barkley was saying that Mottola is the BEST PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY with the little dots above his name ('umulauts' as he called them). And after SAR made that 3, Barkley looked stupid- but hey its not like he cares. Even though it didnt shut him up (hey what can?) it sure made SAR look good!

I too believe POSEY would be a nice addition to the hawks. He was improving like JASON TERRY and for a while they pretty much had equal trade value. But now i believe Terry has more trade value. Posey would be a nice addition, but i too think one DJ is good enough. But if a good situation came up we gotta take it!

"and having Theo healthy all season will be the equivalent to having made a 'big move'" - thats EXACTLY what im thinking

My bad about his contract. Guess i was wrong. I guess he could workout in ATLANTA, but if we do have a straight up JV for HUGHES... then we are left with many players on contract. We also have an unofficial "Newble will be back" comment from Babcock.

What was the most memoriable game last year? Which game or situation got you out of ur seat either crying or screaming? Post your favorite moments and hateful moments. Favorite game: Abdur-Rahim shot up 50 points on a center by the name of BEN WALLACE aka DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR. I remember that day well, Wallace was getting FRUSTRATED! He wasnt playing bad D either, SAR was just having his night. Another favorite: McGrady calls us a CUPCAKE team. Terry just lites it up on the whole team. I dont think Orlando will ever again call us a CUPCAKE team. Post ur memories!

Think about this for a second. How many powerfowards are gonna be at the allstar game on both teams? Most likely around 3. Abdur-Rahim has the best chance on our team, but he wasnt exactly the first player selected to the team. With competition with Knickss NEW PF and Oneal, i hope theres room for ABDUR-RAHIM. - Ur missing TRACY MCGRADY on the list.

Im pretty sure that many teams are willing to throw a min contract to $2 million at VAUGHN. He'll find a new home as a quality backup PG. I hear he complained about the $$$$ last season on hawks? But could be rumors, so just ignore that. As for Dan Dickau... Bobby Hurley Jr? Majority hawks fans love our addition to Dickau as well as NBA/ESPN analysists. I hope ur wrong about Dickau. IMO- worse case, we got a FASTER MATT MALONEY (which isint too bad).

Good idea, Hughes has potential to have a 40 point game. In fact, didnt he have one vs LAKERS one time? Anyways heres some reasons why this wouldnt work 1) Last time i checked, Hughes was at 4.5 million or so a year. No teams want Vaughn for 4.5 million. So to tweak your trade idea - how about VAUGHN + GLOVER for HUGHES? Glover is pretty cheap and Vaughn could be signed for a 1 year deal or 2 which makes the GS cap even better. 2) Who do u want starting? Hughes vs Johnson? I think Hughes will start complaining about a bench role (didnt he have a past about that?). Babcock doesnt want any trouble makers. Although- PG: Terry, Dickau SG: Hughes, Johnson SF: Newble, Kukoc, Crawford PF: Abdur-Rahim, Henderson, Smith C: Ratliff, Moahmmed not bad?

BlackHawkDown, why are u trashing the euro players? I could understand if its some scrub but DIRK NOWITSKI(sp?), PEJA STOYCAVIC (sp?), and Vlade Divac (perfect ) are very good players. They have the talent to play in this league. Also Divac (despite his flopping play, hes a very good center. Hes been top 10 center every year. He has a good career going. Sure he flops, but if the calls going his way... i dont see why not? Thats like telling Shaq to shoot further b/c his shots inside are going in or because hes getting fouled when he shoots close. DO WHATEVER WORKS i say. Besides its the refs job to call whether or not he flops, we shouldnt hate on him for that. But back to my point, whats up with u and the EURO players? Let me guess, u not a big WANG or MING fan either?

First of all- with 13 players under contract... i donno why we are thinking of trying to get more players. But here we go 1)Savovic got game and wasnt drafted! plain and simple. This guy should be in an uniform soon. I think he will eventually find his way to the NBA. 2)No to Collins... has problems so i hear. Babcock doesnt like anyone with problems, ask RIDER. 3)Cooke, i cant judge him. I havent seen or heard enuf on this kid. I should do more hw before saying anything on this guy.

I see Battier as being an allaround better NEWBLE with more offensive skills. Only problem with ur trade is that PAT RILEY doesnt like no-defense type players (Kukoc). He likes defensive minded or athletic players (which is not kukoc). But Memphis sure loves JONES, and im guessing they're working rite now on a plan to get him. your second trade option seems more realistic. C- Wright, Mohammed PF-Abdur-Rahim, Henderson, Smith SF-Battier, Kukoc, Crawford SG-Johnson, Glover PG-Terry, Dickau imo- Wright is a bigger poormans ABDUR-RAHIM.