yardbird

Quote: and Stuart Scott says "can I get an amen from the congregation" amen.

Don't you feel really bad for phxsunsfan or whatever his name was? What do they get to complete the JJ trade, like the 15th pick?

Pacers must win or they're out A loss to Hawks would knock them out of playoff contention By Mike Wells A The Indiana Pacers' situation tonight couldn't be simpler. Beat Atlanta, and the Pacers keep their slim playoff hopes alive. Lose and players can start buying airline tickets to tropical destinations, knowing their vacation starts April 17. "I like playing meaningful games and this is as meaningful of a game that we have played all year," Pacers coach Jim O'Brien said. "To a little bit of an extent, it's like the NCAA Tournament. It's one and done. You lose this game, and the last four games you're like in the NIT. You don't want to be in the NIT." The Pacers are three games behind the Hawks for the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. A victory cuts the Hawks' lead to two, gives the Pacers the tiebreaker and keeps the Hawks' magic number to eliminate the Pacers at three. A Pacers loss means they can't pass Atlanta and will miss the playoffs for the second consecutive season, something they haven't done since Reggie Miller's first two seasons in 1987-88 and '88-89. "Everybody knows what's at stake," Mike Dunleavy said. "For us, it's an elimination game. We lose, we're out. I don't think more needs to be said than that." The Pacers are peaking for the late run. They've won eight of their past 11 games. That might not be enough, however, because the Hawks are hot, too. Atlanta, which last made the playoffs in 1999, is 6-1 in its past seven games. "We've been watching what they've been doing the last couple of weeks," Jeff Foster said. "I think everybody was excited after we won in Milwaukee (on Friday) and we had real optimism Saturday, feeling like we were going to make the playoffs. But then they beat Philly on Saturday and it kind of put a damper back on us. We're in a tough situation. We have to win out and have other teams help us." The Hawks acquired veteran guard Mike Bibby in February. He gives them an explosive backcourt playing beside Joe Johnson. "They are in the driver's seat," Jermaine O'Neal said. "Those guys are playing very good basketball, especially since they got Mike Bibby. He's given them a different type of confidence. He's the catalyst that has gotten those guys going." A victory tonight doesn't necessarily mean the Pacers will catch Atlanta. The Hawks' four games after tonight are against two teams headed to the draft lottery -- New York and Miami -- and two locked into their playoff position -- Boston and Orlando. "Listen, man, we know that nobody is going to roll out the red carpet for us to just walk into the playoffs," Hawks forward Josh Smith told the Atlanta Journal Constitution. "It's like everything else we do around here; we have to fight for it. And we will do that. We're going to fight Indiana, New York and everybody else we play for just that."

For the Pacers, Tuesday is the equivalent of a playoff elimination game on their home court. They will throw everything they have at us, because if they lose they are 4 down with 4 to go, and we have the tie breaker in a 3 to 1 season series. That means they are done. If the Hawks can win this one in Indy, they truly show that they're a force to be reckoned with. Coming on the heels of the big win at Philly Saturday, that makes back to back statement games. None of us should be overconfident about winning easily Tuesday. For Indiana, it will be war. Post game, will we measure Hawks gonads in inches, yards or somewhere in between?

Quote: Quote: the problem is Salim IS NOT a PG. He is a 6' tall shooting guard. For the sake of the the team's future we NEED to develop Acie into a good backup for Bibby. Acie is our PG of the future and needs to be groomed accordingly. Playing Salim at this point is OK for the shot term but not for the long term. THANK YOU! Someone gets it. If Woodson continues to ignore Acie, when Bibby is shipped off at the end of the season next year, we will be right back where we started pre-Bibby--a team without a decent PG. We need to be developing Acie so he will be ready in the long term. I like getting Salim minutes, but he and Acie should have been rotated in and out together with consistent minutes throughout the season instead of relying on JJ (and now Bibby) to play 40+ mins every night. I agree with one asterisk . . . until this team clinches the playoffs, either Acie or Salim's playing time must be limited according to their effectiveness. By that, I mean that if they enter a game with a comfortable margin, I'm okay if the margin (a) increases, (b) is maintined, or © slides marginally while staying comfortable. If they come in and a comfortable lead evaporates due to turnovers or ineffective offense including rushed shots, I prefer JJ and Bibby playing 40 minutes plus, at least until we own the 8th seed. We see sporadically adequate play from both Acie and Salim, but neither has been consistent enough yet to risk the playoffs on their performance. I hope the last performances by each of them, which were steady if not spectacular, become something we can count on. I don't expect them to play perfect, mistake-free ball, just to hold the line at a minimum. The whole team seems to be learning to play with the big boys during this last stretch, Acie and Salim included. I'm rooting for them to keep it up into the playoffs and next season.

Quote: I think it would be very wise to keep everyone. Billy, if he is retained, will probably look to keep everyone and evaluate how he can fill out the rest of his bench without dealing either Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, or Josh Childress. IMO, it is in our best interests to keep all three of them. With David Andersen coming over, we will have a big guy that can play in rotation with Al Horford in the post. Andersen would also give us a player who is a high post threat. The potential for an effective pick and pop style is there with Andersen. I think this summer, our assistant coaches need to spend a lot of time with Acie Law, Mario West, and Jeremy Richardson to get them ready to give us minutes when next season starts. If possible, I'd like to see an upgrade by adding some veteran toughness through role players, replacing the Mario Wests and Jeremy Richardsons on our roster, unless those guys take a big step forward with their games. I think those slots need to be used for solid proven role players next year, rather than developmental guys. That will give our core someone they can learn from and avoid the liklihood of us falling apart when subs come in the game. Next year, the expectations for this team should be higher, and it will be very easy to fall out of the playoffs as teams currently below us get better. We should avoid what happened to the Thrashers this year, and the best way to do that is to maintain the core and improve the end of the bench, since we won't have any draft picks.

Quote: Quote: It might enrage some folks, and is a little off topic, but I thought Marvin brought his "A" game for the most part. Focused, strong on defense and the boards, and knocking down Js. Its a shame that you might enrage Hawks fans by saying something positive about a member of the team. But you are exactly right, some posters hate it when their favorite target does well in a game. By the way, I thought that Zaza played pretty good also. Echo that.

Quote: Quote: I was at the game, and from my perspective, Dalembert's presence was huge in the 1st half, when he shut down the lane and was pretty consistent on offense. The man is just long, and we had no answer. Just watched the 1st quarter and I don't know what you saw but it looked to me that their perimeter players destroyed ours. We turned the ball over at least 6-7 times and Joe and Bibby missed everything they shot! Horford out rebounded Dalembert and was more of a presence in the lane in the 1st quarter. So I don't know what you are talking about! I was in section 113, Row G. Pretty low, behind the Sixers bench (one row behind Louis Williams mom and dad, and surrounded by other Sixers fans). That's why I mentioned my perspective, which gave me an excellent look at the lane, but was too low to fully appreciate what happened on the perimeter because I had to look through the lane. I saw several times where Joe tried to drive the lane, requiring him to muscle through Iggy. While Joe's strength and ball handling got him into the lane, with difficulty, he didn't get to the spot he wanted and often had to go up off balance because of Iggy's strength. And when he went up off balance, he had to contend with Dalembert's length and wiry strength. Al was battling, but between Iggy bodying up and Dalembert changing shots, it made for a tough night in the lane for Joe, although he was more successful in the second half on sheer will alone. Philly is a physical, athletic team. Deep, long and with a good PG. Now that they play on the same page, a force to be reckoned with as evidenced by them winning 21 of their last 28 games. It might enrage some folks, and is a little off topic, but I thought Marvin brought his "A" game for the most part. Focused, strong on defense and the boards, and knocking down Js.

I was at the game, and from my perspective, Dalembert's presence was huge in the 1st half, when he shut down the lane and was pretty consistent on offense. The man is just long, and we had no answer. In the 2nd half, Dre did what good point guards do, he hit key shots and controlled the game, keeping it out of our reach. As for Iggy vs. Joe, Iggy is one of the few players with the right combination of foot speed and strength (esp. strength) to take Joe out of his comfort zone on his drives to the lane. Iggy's strength plus Dally's length made if tough on JJ, but he still put up decent numbers. I think Iggy's strength combined with double teams were the reason Joe had high turnovers tonight. If Bibby had been on, we'd have done enough to sneak one out, but it wasn't meant to be. That said, I expect a very competitive game tomorrow night. Hopefully the real Mike Bibby shows up and no one else disappears, so we win the season series and keep Indy's prospects dim on Tuesday.

From TrueHoops by Henry Abbott on ESPN Reason #1: The Al Horford Theory Al Horford says he tipped the ball as it was inbounded (via the Hawks BasketBlog), which means it's possible the clock started just about when it should have. If that's what happened, then it's really too bad the referees on the scene didn't talk to the media to explain. Here's a photo of the moment (via Hawksquawk). That moment isn't on the video I linked to earlier, and I'm not sure it is online. But I was able to watch it on Synergy, and my best guess is that Horford's hand did touch the ball, although it's very hard to tell. (I hear you Toronto fans: the last guy you want to trust in this situation is Al Horford, after this.) Reason #2: The Fudge Factor Even if you don't believe the "Horford on the grassy knoll" theory ... I have talked to two people who run the kind of timekeeping equipment that was used in that game. They both say that, as a rule of thumb, it is reasonable to expect about a 0.3 second lag between when you decide to push the button, and when you actually get the button pressed. Think about that. We are arguing about a tenth of a second. And it takes three of those just to get the button pressed. That's why it is common, in an NBA game, to see a ball go through the hoop, and then have a few tenths come off before the clock stops. Humans can't move much faster than that. You might say then, well why not click the button a tad before the ball hits the rim then? Why not anticipate? Both scoreboard operators say that the first rule of the business is to not anticipate, because you don't know what will happen. But it's a constant battle, between wanting to have a hair trigger, and wanting to be as accurate as possible. Sometimes, anticipation or an itchy trigger finger can get in the way. If you're talking about a big chunk of time, then it must be addressed. But when you're talking about a third of the time it takes to even press the button -- there's also a very real chance that it was just an accident. High-definition TVs and slow-motion replay have brought the game a level of precision that humans on the scene just can not match, and expecting them to will always lead to disappointment. (I suspect, in the long run, there will be a replay official courtside with Tivo, empowered to monkey with the clock as necessary in cases like this.) When I see this play in still photographs and slow motion, it's easy to imagine someone intentionally adding or subtracting a tenth or two. Talking to scorekeepers, however, makes me think that the whole operation is not nearly that precise. That doesn't make it all OK, but somehow it does make it less sinister. Reason #3: Life's Too Short I wrestle with this all the time. I want to be one of those people who does not sweep referee mistakes under the rug. I'm for honesty about these things -- it lets all of us learn, so that hopefully the same mistakes won't be made again and again. However, at the same time, if you follow basketball for any period of time, you simply can not expect the officiating to be perfect. You can expect it to be damn good -- and I don't say this out of homerism, but after watching some Euroleague and some NCAA, I challenge anyone to find better basketball referees than the NBA has -- but not perfect. When it comes to tenths of seconds and the like, well, every player who ever played the game has had to deal with some losses that they didn't find fair. It's the NBA's job to limit them, and it's everyone else's job to, at some point, either prove there's some big fat conspiracy, or accept the human error and move on. It's miserable that the Raptors have had two such snafus in Atlanta. And it's miserable that Atlanta was home to that replay. But at some point, wrong though it may feel, there's not much more to be done, other than for the league to come up with more and better ways to improve the accuracy of these kinds of tough calls.

Quote: What's up man, I think I owe you a beer! I know it's hard to know what is on the coach and what is on the players. For instance on that final play of regulation last night, who knows? I know that Woody's entire focus during the timeout should have been NO MATTER WHAT, DO NOT LET YOUR MAN GET TO THE RIM, because they have to look for an alley-oop pass with a half second to play. Maybe the players blew it, or maybe he didn't convey the message, or maybe both. I think that applies to a lot of our poor defensive play. I don't think our defense was ever as good as some thought it was. Our defensive rotations have always been poor, we frequently double team and leave world-renowned shooters WIDE OPEN when it just doesn't make sense. But even then, I'm willing to admit that we don't really know if Woody is clueless, or the players just aren't getting it done. I'm inclined to believe that Woody knows defense based on reputation, and that the players screw up a lot. I still put a decent amount of blame on Woody on this front because a coach is only as valuable as he gets the players to perform. I don't really care about knowledge that Woody has that he can't get across to the players. With the exception of Josh Smith, most of these guys were supposed to be high IQ guys on real winning programs in college, and all of the sudden they "stop getting it" under Woody. So even if you give him a pass on defense, I have never seen an offensive system that is as bare-boned and inadequate as what we've been watching for 3-4 years. I know our PPG have gone way up with Bibby showing up, mostly due to sheer firepower and Bibby making it happen. But we have never set up an offensive system to take advantage of our strengths and get our players in a position to succeed. It's all 1-on-1 and pray that Joe can carry us through. And that applies doubly in the clutch. Our offensive system overall under Woody has been a total embarassment. Then there's the ridiculous substitutions and minutes. I think everyone would have to agree here. No NBA head coach should be that bad, and if he is, he should hire someone to take care of it for him. The one real positive overall has been that he's kept the troops motivated and hungry throughout the losing. I thought he was losing the team around All-Star break, but the bibby trade seemed to give the team the boost it needed. I know he excelled as an assistant coach, and I'm sure he has a lot of knowledge. But when you look at the major components and what you expect out of your coach, I'd say: -defensive system / execution: B- -offensive system / execution: F -adjusting the system to the talent he has: D- -substitutions: F -execution out of timeouts: D -player development: C+ -season management (minutes ... ): D- -motivating/focusing the team: B+ -representing the team well: A So really, I don't see how any NBA - caliber coach could be worse. Yes, I know that he too wants to strangle the players sometimes, but I want to strangle him. I honestly don't know which NBA coaches are worse, other than Isiah, and I don't know much about Randy Wittman as a coach. Let me put it this way, I can understand where you can often say "Woody might not have screwed up, it might have been the players that didn't listen". Ok. But what do you see in Woody that you think is above average for an NBA caliber head guy? Had to put my 5-year-old to bed, so took me awhile to respond. I respect your opinion and your right to have it. Hell, I even understand why you feel that way and I agree with you on some points. I don't pretend that I know enough to say what's a good offensive strategy and what isn't, so you may have one up on me there. Frankly, unless there's a meaningful low post presence, to me most NBA offense seems like isolation of skilled players like Joe, Kobe, Lebron, etc. to force defenses to compensate against the mismatch by sending help, sometimes resulting in a great one on one play or an open teammate elsewhere. Then that teammate has to be able to convert. Pre-Bibby, the Hawks haven't been able to convert for the most part. I agree that defending the alley-oop s/h/b first priority at the end of regulation. But unless you had J-Smoove play one-man zone at the rim, I don't know how anyone could stop a player with the speed and hops of Ford from getting to the rim coming from the perimeter. Seems almost indefensible to me. Chill doesn't have the foot speed to defend it, nor Bibby or anyone else on our team unless you have Smoove camped out, in my opinion. As for players from winning college programs with high IQs, I think college and pro is just night and day. Some players game is suited for college only (Shelden). Some more for the pros (Bosh). Some quickly transition and are successful on both levels (CP3, though it's taken 3 years for serious excellence. Also Tim Duncan and hopefully Al Horford) while others transiton more gradually, but still eventually excel (Chauncey). I don't think the players "stop getting it" under Woody, just that the level of competition is quite different. I'm ecstatic about the team's recent progress, but I'm not sure I see significant strengths we can regularly exploit against other teams aside from Joe's skills. Our greatest strength is athleticism, which can be offset in the inevitable half court sets because we usually have been at a height disadvantage at every position save the 2 spot and sometimes the 3, and when we share the ball ala the Pistons. But sharing the ball requires point guard skills we haven't had until recently. On substitutions, I just don't see where any of the current roster other than Chill and lately ZaZa have done anything to convince Woody that more play would do anything but cost us games, and we haven't been in position to sacrifice even one of our wins to date. As to substitution patterns, isn't it said that players are most comfortable when they know their roles? I'm sure that players at the end of the bench would like to play more, but I believe the reason they don't isn't some dogged commitment to formulaic substitutions, rather, those players own limitations. When we have more reliable bench players, I bet you'll see Woody looking like a better substitutor, just like the offense looks smoother with a real point guard than it did without one. I can't think of a team in the league that has had as shaky a situation at the point over the last 3.5 years as the Hawks have. To answer your question, I see nothing above average or NBA caliber about Woody, except that he hasn't lost the players in all this time (no small feat, given our record). But I don't think he's ever had anything approaching a full deck player-wise. While we're growing, he still doesn't since there's no quality depth or size. If Woody loses his job and we bring in a better coach, I'm fine with that. It would be interesting to see what scorecard you'd give him, putting aside any baggage from current perceptions, with a full season of Bibby at point and a consistently effective (not superstar, just steady) defensive and offensive low post presence, though. I'll take you up on the brewski at the first home playoff game, if you're in the house!

What's up Lascar! I'm obviously in the minority on this, but I've consistently said that it was the players more than the coach that held this team back. Bibby is a veteran point who actually has the skills to run the offense and score, hence the team looks better. Many coaches in many professional sports acknowledge that success is primarily up to the players. That's why when a player's basketball IQ is high enough to be considered a coach on the floor, teams generally succeed. And, when you have to trust players who aren't there yet, like the pre-Bibby Hawks, you don't succeed. Joe alone wasn't enough. Now he thankfully has help. And the team looks better. Woodson is not a coaching genius, I'll admit that. But he was never as bad as he's made out to be on this board. Reading posts earlier, I was surprised to hear that Toronto fans apparently seriously question Sam Mitchell's decisions on a regular basis (not fouling Bibby before the game tying 3 wasn't smart, but was that an error by Mitchell or by TJ? A coach can lead a horse to water, but he can't make him drink). And Sam, I think, is the reigning coach of the year, and someone I think has done a great job turning the Raptors around. I guess beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.

I was actually surprised that the play could not be run successfully in .5 seconds, which supports that the clock started early. But the Miami protest was upheld because the Hawks scorers miscounted Shaq's fouls after the Hawks scorers had previously not counted a TJ Ford layup in an earlier game. Here, the officials may have started the clock early AND the officials waved off the basket after an official review AND their decision did not decide the game, it was conservative in that it left the game to be decided in OT. The Miami protest punished the Hawks for our scorers ineptitude and fined the Hawks. The Hawks are not at fault here, if anyone is it's the refs, and it was an understandable mistake (can't imagine trying to start the clock perfectly while watching for fouls, etc. all within .5 seconds to decide a game), not a mistake that looks like they were trying to fix the game, which Toronto might easily have won in OT as far as they knew. Refs make mistakes that impact every game (missed calls, tic tac fouls, etc.) and those are not overturned. It would be Pandora's box to start here. Maybe they should look at improved ref procedures to address future games, but overturning this one would be stupid.

Quote: Why shouldn't we miss them? It'd be nice to have some vets coming off the bench. Bibby and Joe can't play 48 minutes a game. That said, Bibby was a steal, and since it comes down to them or him, I can't complain at all. That shot was amazing. He had a man in his face with time winding down and the game on the line, and he hit a FADE AWAY THREE. Agree 100%. Getting Bibby was worth losing AJ and Lue, but those two were always planned to be backups before injuries to Speedy and Acie put them in unintended roles. Having even one of them as a backup now in case of rookie jitters would be a great comfort zone.

Quote: I agree, they do have a legitimate complaint. But you know what? Why don't you hold a 17 point lead in the 4th qtr. They really need look no further than themselves if they want to blame someone. You're on the road. U can't expect to get close calls. At least this isnt a book-keeping error. I dont think they can replay this thing. It would take too much out of the teams too close to the playoffs. They could overturn and give a W to the Raps, but I dont see that happening. I hope this story doesnt get any momentum I don't believe it's protestable . . . the refs made the call and I'm sure could review at the entire play, including when the clock started. Not like Miami when they w/h had to look at the entire game to re-count Shaq's fouls. If there was a mistake, the refs made it, or if our timekeeper made it, the refs failed to overturn it when they had the opportunity. Game, set, match. /s/ David Stern

Quote: I thought it was 4 games??? Damn that sucks. Indy has Boston tomorrow so they should drop another game. If the Hawks can beat Indy next week they're probably done aswell. Remember that teams start folding the tent now when there's nothing to gain, so Boston might not compete against Indy. Detroit isn't even activating Sheed, Chauncey and I think Hamilton against Minnesota tonight because they can't realistically catch Boston and Orlando can't realistically catch them. Boston would probably start resting their stars as well, if they're smart. That could mean games we think will be tough for NJ and Boston won't be.

Quote: I cant believe someone picked Speedy!! I would rather bring old, worn out retired players like Smitty, Willis, and Craig Ehlo, than play dl scrubs like Jones and J.R Thanks for the b_tch slap. I was the second vote for Speedy, based on the assumption that he was healthy and the timing was now. I'd rather have him backing up the point than Acie going down the stretch and into the playoffs. If Acie gains some confidence, as I suspect he will next year (or hopefully down the stretch this year since Speedy isn't healthy and we'll have to rely on him), I'd put him in front of Speedy.

Quote: Quote: I agree Floyd, and I have said the same thing all along. But Durant WILL get it--although undeservedly. Oh, and Horford is shooting 50% from the field. He was barely shooting over 40% early in the season. He is looking damn good lately (altho his defensive rebounding has dropped off past couple months). I noticed the same thing about his rebounding. I think the physical toll of battling bigger players all season is wearing on him. I used to play a lot and dealing with a guy 20-30 pounds heavier trying to back you down can get tiresome. We need to get someone else in here who can defend bigs and take some of the burden off him. As far as his offense i think we are seeing the benefit of letting a rookie play through his mistakes. he was a train wreck earlier in the year. But Woody wouldn't pull him for mistakes (considering who was behind him he really didn't have a choice) and now he looks like a different player. Too bad Acie didn't have that chance before the Bibby trade. it isn't like Lue and AJ were doing anything. When was Horford a train wreck? Maybe he was slightly off a couple of games, mostly about a week abo, but I remember him being incredibly consistent and almost never playing like a rookie. Even veterans like JJ have a few off games over an 82 game season.

Quote: yep and it would have been better playing them than wasting our time with Lue and AJ eating valuable minutes.If Woodson never gives AJ ACIE'S job,this team is in alot better shape. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like our playoff chances a lot better if Lue or AJ were around to spell Bibby and Joe a few minutes. They were ripped a lot while here, but when they left, so did our bench.

Quote: This has been our best stretch of the entire season, but you wouldn't know it from reading these boards???? We just won another road game....scored over 70 points in a half and people are arguing about who sucks worse, Salim or Acie......or Marvin or Chillz. We are heating up going into the playoffs and everthing is looking great! Can't you people enjoy yourselves or are you all just so beaten down from all those years of not making the playoffs, that you can't handle some mild success. Bibby has been great....JJ has too...Marvin is back....Horford is scoring more...Chillz is playing unrea...Heck....even Zaza hasn't been a liability lately and all people do around here is complain. We just won our 8th out of our last 9 games and look at all the recent posts....nothing positive. I don't get it..... Agree, I just posted in another thread that a 17 point win on the road was huge and way more than I expected! Didn't realize it was 8 out of 9, though I knew it was 4 in a row. The wins might not be pretty, but they are wins when we are in must win territory. This team has been in playoff mode for quite some time, and they are delivering. Think about it, a couple of weeks ago, it would have been easy to see us finding a way to miss the playoffs despite our easier schedule, but we are stepping up BIGTIME!

Quote: wednesday nights game against the raptors is gonna be a good test for this hawks team. we've actually taken a step forwards by beating four sub .500 teams we should have beat - the next step would be to beat a + .500 team who is headed for the playoffs. plus, indiana is at boston. a hawks win + an indy loss puts us 4 games up with 7 games remaining. and if.... and if philly loses to NJ, we're only 2 games behind philly with two games with them back-to-back - although i can honestly say i'd rather play the celtics (primetime coverage, david versus goalith match up, possibilty of a boston injury changing the the entire dynamic)... flava I agree as well, but even though our bench made it a lot more interesting than it s/h/b, let's not sell tonight's win short . . . I really thought we'd lose this one, and we basically dominated. Before tonight, I bet everyone would have been happy with a 17 point road win against a team that plays well at home and just beat the Lakers in LA. Because the bench turned a 40 point blow out into a 12 point game with 6 minutes to play, we don't feel as good as we should. But NBA teams always make a run in a game, especially at home. And, we're not good enough yet for other teams to fear us, especially our bench. The Grizzlies have pride, too. Kudos to the Hawks for tonight'ss game!

Quote: Quote: Quote: Maybe so, but when your bench players aren't getting consistent minutes, you wont see consistent production. That's my point. It's not that hard to figure out. Harpring, Korver and Milsap would get consistent minutes from Woody on this team, I promise you. Stoudamire, Law and West, not so much . . . Lol...the same coach who benched Horford in the beginning of the season in favor of Zaza freaking Pachulia UNTIL Pachulia got hurt... The same one who refused to play Law even after AJ and others were not going to be with us any longer... Nice try. Look at what playing Horford in front of him did to ZaZa's confidence from the time Al replaced him until the last week or so, when Pachulia's play finally picked up. Ever think that Woody might anticipate that from a veteran who lost his position to a rookie, and that Woody might hope that by making Horford earn the start might push ZaZa to play like he did his first year in Atlanta to stave off Horford, resulting in two solid big men rather than just one for most of this year? Horford probably didn't expect to start as a rookie, so backing up ZaZa would have been no ego blow to him. It obviously was an ego blow to ZaZa. I think that was the strategy, and it would have been a good one if ZaZa had stepped up. And if I remember correctly, Law was starting ahead of AJ early in the season until he got hurt . . . and AJ was quite pissed and pouting about it. When Law got hurt, AJ was the most effective PG we had, and when Law returned, he never played at the level that earned him those early starts. Maybe you know more than I do on this, but I hadn't heard that anyone knew AJ would be traded before he was traded, so I'm not sure how Woody would have been expected to play Law, who wasn't effective at the time, ahead of AJ, even though AJ wasn't all that great either. AJ could always be counted on not to turn the ball over and to hold his own defensively for the most part. Maybe he rarely won games for us, but he also didn't lose them for us which couldn't be said of Law or Salim. Most coaches prefer veterans to untested rookies when games matter and the playoffs hang in the balance. It's not just a Woody thing. If Law hadn't gotten hurt a couple of times, he could have cut his teeth when the playoffs didn't hang in the balance. If we clinch the 8th seed before the end of season, I bet he and others will get a chance to develop then. Right now, I think Woody's doing the right thing. If you were coaching, would you have left Acie in the game tonight when the lead went from 38 to 12 in 6 minutes while Acie handled the point, so Acie could develop? Or, would you have gone back to your starters to secure the game when a half game in the standings hangs in the balance with 8 games to play?

Quote: we won't win one game in the playoffs because we'll need the bench and Woody hasn't developed one because he has no clue.we can save face during the regular season but getting BLOWN OUT by real teams on a big stage because everyone is watching Boston will get u fired more. You're right we need a bench. But I understand why Woody doesn't trust these guys at this time. When there was time to develop a bench, we were playing people like AJ, Shelden, Lue, Law and Lo. They're gone now, and since they've been gone, we could not afford to lose even one of the games we won so people like Salim, West and Solo could grow. If we'd lost one of those games because of one more mistake from Acie or Salim while Joe and Bibby rested, we'd be up basically one game on NJ, and this team doesn't play well under pressure. The time for development is summer league, preseason and early season. After the All-Star break, we needed to do everything possible to make the playoffs. Hopefully, we'll build a bench in the offseason. Now and for the playoffs, we have to rely on the top 6 or 7 players to get us through and if fatigue or foul trouble do them in, we take our chances with Acie, Salim, Solo, Alton Lister or whoever.

Quote: Maybe so, but when your bench players aren't getting consistent minutes, you wont see consistent production. That's my point. It's not that hard to figure out. Harpring, Korver and Milsap would get consistent minutes from Woody on this team, I promise you. Stoudamire, Law and West, not so much . . .

I watch every Hawk game, and go to quite a few as well. Acie's a rookie, and he has been given the opportunity to play except when he's (a) hurt or (b) ineffective. If Acie had shown more, I doubt the trade for Bibby would have been made. But playing point in the NBA isn't the same as doing it in college, unless you're a rare talent like CP3. Hell, even he and Deron weren't playoff level consistent in their rookie years. The Hawks are barely squeaking towards the playoffs now and investing anymore development time into Acie and Salim would, based on what I've seen, probably cost them the playoff slot. Woodson is doing what I'd do right now, make the playoffs now, and worry about the rest later. If he gets to the playoffs, he has a prayer of saving his job (I know most don't savor that possibility, but you can't fault the man for trying to survive). If he misses the playoffs because letting Acie and Salim play through their mistakes costs us 2 or 3 games at this critical juncture, he has no chance. I want the Hawks to make the playoffs so the young guns can grow through trial by fire. I don't care whether it the 7th or 8th seed, cause I'd be surprised if we could win a single game against either Boston or Detroit (could you imagine Acie or Salim trying to rest Bibby against Chauncey & Co. in the playoffs when we'd have their full attention? Don't be fooled by how well we played them in the regular season, it would not be the same.). I think a realistic goal would be being competitive in at least 3 of the 4 games, and stealing a playoff win would be gravy and huge! This year we need to get there and learn how to be mentally tough, especially since we won't add a significant new player most likely. Next year and beyond, that experience should pay dividends.