thecampster

26 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Is it going to be a surprise to you when he is consistently beaten in the pick and roll by much faster and far more athletic players in the NBA similar to the way Schifino took advantage of him in the P&R last season?

He's going to get beat in the pick n' pop more than the pick n' roll. He naturally falls into drop coverage. He doesn't try to guard the switch out of the pick. He tries to protect the drive.  At the NBA level, that can still be pretty bad as players like Trae will kill you with lobs and floaters, Derozan will 2 pointer you to death but I think you're overthinking this. Constantly targeting him in the pick n roll game will greatly affect a team's offense over the course of a game. I'm not too worried about it for 48 minutes.

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

10%? Those numbers are extreme. Especially when I don't recall us really talking about many draft prospects ever outside of 3 players and now Edey. Those type of numbers, that's just way too extreme and considering my hit rate in the last three years has been 95%, you must miss a lot or just haven't paid attention. Even that 50% with Sothron is extreme. That's crazy

If you are 10% on anything, it's about Trae. That's it. I can't even remember you posting in draft threads outside of 2020 when you and I had quarrels on James Wiseman.

I am not cool with that 10% statement. First time you said it, I just brushed it aside, now I just think it's flat out disingenuous and wrong even if that's your opinion. Are you saying you are wrong 90% of the time?  Lets chill with potential disrespect 

I keep my comments short on prospects and don't engage in back and forth much.

16 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I still believe this .

I can't believe this is 31 unnecessary pages and counting.

Here's what should give you pause on Edey.  @Sothron and I agree on player evals about 50% of the time but we agree here. @NBASupes and I agree on player evals about 10% of the time. We fight openly much more than we agree, but we agree here.  We are 3 diverse opinions on players and their future value.

During the Cam Reddish initial debate, Supes attacked me openly for just saying pump the brakes on Reddish. He has fixable mechanical problems in his shot and has decision making problems. I feel I was proven right in that fight. It was an open fight and all I said was "he's not all that today".  But we both agree that Edey should be the pick at 10.

Now Supes tends to make much more emotional arguments than I do and engages in keyboard fist-a-cuffs whereas I just check out and let others pound the keyboard.

My position on #10.  By the time we pick, anyone who will be an all-star in the future will most likely be off the board. By pick 10 its a crap shoot. The players picked after the first 5 become increasingly hard to discern if their basketball skills and work ethic will translate to the NBA. 2/3rds of the players picked in the NBA draft never see a second NBA contract (real stat). Most of the players chosen 1-10 get a second contract. This means about 80% of the players chosen after 10 will be out of the league in 4 years. Its a game of chance. One of those players this year will be 7-4, 300 lbs and is the back to back college basketball player of the year.  Given I've got an 80% chance of picking the wrong player, I believe picking a player with the above credentials is your best bet. I'm not even stating he'll score 15 ppg in the NBA or get a 2nd contract.  What I am saying is by pick 10 the pickings will be slim and the chance of failure high. Edey offers by far the best chance to get a second contract. 

I'm not even taking anyone seriously crapping on him right now. The guy has proven against 260lb college centers than he can get 30/20 in 30 minutes. The guy played with team Canada in FIBA and was respected by his peers at that level. Given his size and stats, that's plenty for me.

38 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I didn’t realize that Kobe Johnson at USC was Jalen’s brother.  

Its been mentioned numerous times on the tv broadcasts.

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So the tape shows that he can play on the perimeter offensively and can switch on defense?

He's an excellent pick setter on the perimeter.

Clint can't play on the perimeter. Bruno can't play on the perimeter. OO just learned to shoot a corner 3.

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You can’t ignore the fact that he does absolutely nothing a modern nba big can do.  

Actually, I can. Basketball is about finding advantages, not playing exactly like everyone else. He creates advantages, plain and simple.

I think its a bit foolish to spend this much time discussing a player we have less that a 20% chance of being able to get and even less to probably get. But I am looking forward to calling scoreboard on this one in 2 years.

There's video evidence of him playing a year ago with NBA level talent and more than holding his own. I really don't think we should spend too much more time debating it, mainly because the opinions expressed seem more based in what people have heard about him and less about logic and reason.

The simplest logic. The guy posted 1st half double doubles in the first 2 tournament games. He was pulled with 15 minutes to in one game and he's averaging 26.5 and 17.5 for the tourney. He averaged 24.5 and 12.1 for the season, in the big ten.

These are not normal numbers and need to be respected. Few have come close to doing what he's doing. Logic dictates that in a weak draft class, you take the guy doing things no one else has done in a long time.

Last year in college

Zach Edey 24.5/12.1

Tim Duncan 20.8/14.7

Holmgren averaged 14.1/9.9

Bruno 13.5/10.6

Embiid 11.2/8.1

Bam Adebeyo 13/8

Stephen Adams 7.2/6.3

Edey playing with NBA star level talent.  USA vs Canada scrimmage.

23 minutes ago, kg01 said:

If Edey was 25% as good as folks itt are saying he is, he wouldn't be a Boilermaker rn.

But the real question is wtf is a boilermaker? 

It isn't about how "good" he is. It won't be about raw stats. Its about impact. Just having him on the floor will affect pretty much everything the other team does at both ends of the floor. 

Edey faces constant double/triple teams and still does what he does. You double Trae or DJ with Edey on the floor and its 90% going to be 2 points. Edey passes out far better than any of our bigs. He isn't a good passer per say, but he's excellent at the dump in/rebound kick it out to restart.

See this video:  The dive on the floor and how body controlled he is to give it up to the guard before he even stops sliding. This body control, this understanding of the team aspect of basketball is his "team game".
 

Go to the 6 minute mark in this video and see his passing/playmaking ability (6:00).
 

19 minutes ago, kg01 said:

My memory's a bit foggy but I feel I got led astray partly because of you on that.

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and blame you for me picking Bamba over Trae that year.

Thanks a lot, tcampst. 

 

That's on you buddy. I made my feelings on Bamba quite clear (I believe I slated him 8th on the board).

I think the only real prospect I've been wrong about in the last 6 years is Luka (who I still don't like)

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Considering I’m 112-1 against you, sure, cab lightening ️ hit a person twice? Low chances you know that your the (cough cough) numbers guy  

Which multiverse are we in again?

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

No. Ummm, only 8 dudes in the NBA can guard him? 
 

damn y’all fall in love wit strippers .. just sayin. They ain’t realllll he ain’t real.

2nd round pick.. as he should.

You really wanna go down this road with me again after your JJ analysis?

Comparing Clint to Edey. Edey is 6 inches taller with a 5.5 inch longer wingspan. That is almost a full extra foot of length for teams to have to shoot over, drive around, out jump.  Edey is strong. He's deceptively strong/wirey. Clint has to work much harder to maintain good position in the post.  Unlike most young bigs, Edey's strength is in his legs. This is something most players must work on after getting into the league. Part of why Edey looks plodding at times is because he's working off of such a strong lower body. He can muscle his way in with his lower body, not just try to out jump people. He's also adept at early box outs. He's committed to boxing his man out early, instead of just relying on his size. This is why you'll see a lot of late reaction snags on rebounds from him. He's giving up the ball for the body. It looks awkward but its the right way to play the post. Establish position before you ball hunt.  You really need to do a reset and watch film on him again for the things I'm discussing. Purdue might not have even made the tourney without him.

16 hours ago, KB21 said:

I am in touch with reality.  I see Edey for what he is.  A situational, throwback big who has no perimeter game and can't defend.  That's his reality.  He's not this unicorn prospect that is going to change the way the game is played, which is what you are trying to make him into.  There isn't an ounce of modern NBA big skill in his body.  

90% of the time, you and I are lock step together in our evaluations.  Back in the Trae draft, we had similar opinions, with me preferring Trae, you preferring JJJ but respectful blurred lines in our evaluations.  I'm going to do now what I did back then and make my case for Edey.

Few players force the defense to make bad choices. Trae Young is that kind of player. The only way to beat Trae is to sell out to double the ball high and play 3v4 against the rest of the team.  Trae is so unique, he commands this type of sell out. 

Edey demands a sellout on offense. There are maybe 8 players in the entire NBA who can guard him 1v1 within 10 feet. There are again, maybe 5 players in the NBA who can challenge him in the rebounding game. The entire defense must adjust when he is on the floor and a double team of Trae Young early, will mean an easy scoring opportunity for Edey against all but a handful of players. Offensively, they are about as dangerous a pairing as you can find.

Although Edey on the defensive end is going to be a problem at the perimeter, much like Gobert, he also has that same effect. Any team that relies on inside play (see Philly) to spark their outside play, will be severely gimped. Regardless of movement or recovery time, a near 8 foot wingspan on a 7'4" frame is very hard to shoot around. Like JJJ, he'll struggle to stay out of foul trouble year 1-2 but once he catches up to the speed of guard play, the lane will be shut down.  Edey will change what other teams due offensively so much (based on size alone), it will free up our wings to actually play man up defense on the perimeter without having to chase every drive in the lane.

Its unpopular, but I'll say it. Clint is not the answer. He's not even close to the answer. A "C" who lacks size like Clint has to be able to shoot from outside. Clint gets rebounds by working but he gives up 5 rebounds a game that size alone would offer him (see Bruno easy boards). Edey solves our problem with other team 2nd chances while being just as good as Clint in the rebounding department. Edey is an eventual upgrade over Clint while allowing us to move on from his and/or OO's salary and keep our guard play where it is.

Edey's value isn't just in his stats but in how he forces opponents to play outside their normal game plan. With guards like Trae/DJM, teams will have to choose who to guard and who to Hunt. Edey allows the Hawks to dictate matchups, not react to them.  He is the only choice, regardless of if he ends up the best player in the class.

31 minutes ago, KB21 said:

To recap, picks 1-18 in this mock draft:

1. Detroit Pistons - Zach Rissacher, SF, France
2. Houston Rockets - Alex Sarr, C, France
3. Washington Wizards - Nikola Topic, PG, Serbia
4. Charlotte Hornets - Reed Shepherd, PG, Kentucky
5. San Antonio Spurs - Matas Buzelis, SF, Ignite
6. Portland Trailblazers - Ron Holland, SF, Ignite
7. San Antonio Spurs - Reed Dillingham, PG, Kentucky
8. Memphis Grizzliers - Donovan Clingan, C, Connecticut
9. Utah Jazz - Stephon Castle, SG, Connecticut
10. Atlanta Hawks - Cody Willims, SF, Colorado
11. Chicago Bulls - Dalton Knecht, SG, Tennessee
12. Oklahoma City Thunder - Kyle Filipowski, PF, Duke
13. Portland Trailblazers - Tidjane Salaun, PF, France
14. New Orleans Pelicans - Jakobe Walter, SG, Baylor
15. Miami Heat - Jared McCain, PG, Duke
16. Philadelphia 76ers - Isaiah Collier, PG, USC
17. Toronto Raptors - Tristan Da Silva, SF, Colorado
18. Atlanta Hawks - Yves Missi, C, Baylor

Sorry buddy, but if you have Edey available at 10 or 18, you take him.  He's going to struggle to defend in space and will need a year+ to adapt to the pro game but he's a problem inside 12 feet that few people are.

Right now, we don't have a center with Edey's potential and its our biggest weakness.  You take Edey at 10 and hope he reaches his potential.

On 3/11/2024 at 10:15 AM, Spud2nique said:

Oh hey, since you’ve been stalking me lately (checking my old receipts on JJ and whatnot) might wanna check them on my draft pick desires of Trey Murph! Spell his damn name right too, he ain’t no Sheldon. Camp , you come into the MurphIII party late and with a take like, “good looking player”… that’s been in the works for a minute there lil budder. You receive no credit for this!  

I bow to your greatness! May all of your basketball fantasies come true.

Trey Murphey III is a good looking player.

Removed

Why do we keep throwing bounce passes at peoples' feet?.... especially at Clint?

So probably mentioned but let me say it if it hasn't.  The number 1 knock on Edey is he struggles to guard at the perimeter. In today's NBA of switching between bigs and guards at the 3 point line, this could make him a liability. If/when he comes in for a workout, I'd run switching drills till his ankles look like cantaloupes to see how he handles it.

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Nique: Niang looks like he's been living good. 

Speaking of Nique, he hadn't traveled on a few road trips this year. Anyone know the details why?

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I need to update a couple threads I made about Hunter and JJ. Aka Marvin and “he can’t be our starter at PF”…   

Best to preempt me keeping receipts!!!

Kobe's been working on those biceps.