This⬇️

[AHF]

Since I crapped on him yesterday, I will say that yesterday's game was his best as a Hawk.  He needs to start showing some consistency (in a way better than a 37% FG%) going forward and show that his improvement this year is meaningful and not just a collection of solid games surrounded by fields of crap.

[macdaddy]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Since I crapped on him yesterday, I will say that yesterday's game was his best as a Hawk.  He needs to start showing some consistency (in a way better than a 37% FG%) going forward and show that his improvement this year is meaningful and not just a collection of solid games surrounded by fields of crap.

My thing is that he is obviously more talented than most of our other wing choices and since Korver and Baze have been really inconsistent why not go with Hardaway.   I don't think he's going to do anymore harm than those guys are doing and the upside is big even if he misses a bunch of shots.   He'll be a wrinkle that other teams aren't used to since we've obviously been figured out.    

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

Since I crapped on him yesterday, I will say that yesterday's game was his best as a Hawk.  He needs to start showing some consistency (in a way better than a 37% FG%) going forward and show that his improvement this year is meaningful and not just a collection of solid games surrounded by fields of crap.

Tell Budz to actually let him play regular minutes instead of force-feeding us tripe aka BazeLock and one-legged Kyle.

We really need the THJr experiment to pay dividends if for no other reason than to make a certain mod and a certain MichSt fan eat crow.

{Yeah, I know.  But it was the only crow-related gif I could find.  Plus it's pretty funny and don't we all need a little bit of that after last night?}

[Guest]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Tell Budz to actually let him play regular minutes instead of force-feeding us tripe aka BazeLock and one-legged Kyle.

We really need the THJr experiment to pay dividends if for no other reason than to make a certain mod and a certain MichSt fan eat crow.

{Yeah, I know.  But it was the only crow-related gif I could find.  Plus it's pretty funny and don't we all need a little bit of that after last night?}

Hahahaha...that gif,......

[AHF]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

My thing is that he is obviously more talented than most of our other wing choices and since Korver and Baze have been really inconsistent why not go with Hardaway.   I don't think he's going to do anymore harm than those guys are doing and the upside is big even if he misses a bunch of shots.   He'll be a wrinkle that other teams aren't used to since we've obviously been figured out.    

What is the big upside?  As I posted on the GS thread:

Quote

Hardaway should get you [a lack of turnovers].  He generates the fewest turnovers per minute of anyone on the team.

Per minute and excluding Patterson, he also averages:

• the fewest points other than Thabo,
• the fewest assists of our guards,
• the fewest steals of our guards,
• the fewest rebounds of anyone not named Teague,
• the fewest blocks other than Dennis,

and of course:

• the fewest shots made per attempt on the roster.

I definitely would love to see us get Korver more rest and Bazemore some time on the bench that an assistant can be whispering in his ear to get him refocused.  I just am not seeing the upside.  What is the big contribution that we are thinking we will see from THJr?  He seems to do very little while he is on the floor but enjoys the good fortune of being on the floor with Dennis a lot who has been dynamic off the bench this season.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Tell Budz to actually let him play regular minutes instead of force-feeding us tripe aka BazeLock and one-legged Kyle.

We really need the THJr experiment to pay dividends if for no other reason than to make a certain mod and a certain MichSt fan eat crow.

{Yeah, I know.  But it was the only crow-related gif I could find.  Plus it's pretty funny and don't we all need a little bit of that after last night?}

Lmao I just love this gif...can this be gif of the month? I can watch it over n over..hahahaha

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

What is the big upside?  As I posted on the GS thread:

I definitely would love to see us get Korver more rest and Bazemore some time on the bench that an assistant can be whispering in his ear to get him refocused.  I just am not seeing the upside.  What is the big contribution that we are thinking we will see from THJr?  He seems to do very little while he is on the floor but enjoys the good fortune of being on the floor with Dennis a lot who has been dynamic off the bench this season.

All I know is that the more minutes he gets now the better for us later.  

The more minutes he actually plays in a particular game and the more he shots he takes in said game the better his percentages are.

[macdaddy]

53 minutes ago, AHF said:

What is the big upside?  As I posted on the GS thread:

I definitely would love to see us get Korver more rest and Bazemore some time on the bench that an assistant can be whispering in his ear to get him refocused.  I just am not seeing the upside.  What is the big contribution that we are thinking we will see from THJr?  He seems to do very little while he is on the floor but enjoys the good fortune of being on the floor with Dennis a lot who has been dynamic off the bench this season.

That's easy.   He has the handles and ability to get in the lane and finish that no other wing on this roster has or is going to have.  

[AHF]

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All I know is that the more minutes he gets now the better for us later.  

The more minutes he actually plays in a particular game and the more he shots he takes in said game the better his percentages are.

So in 5 games with 20-29 minutes he has shot 28% from 3pt range.  

In 18 games with 10-19 minutes he has shot 23%.

In 4 games with 1-9 minutes he has shot 20%.

 

One of those things is not like the other in terms of sample size but I'll give you that it shows a positive correlation.  Likely one that means in games where he looks good Bud gives him more leash and in games where he looks bad, Bud limits the damage.  

 

Do you think if we give him 30+ minutes per game he can deliver all the team lows (rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc.) we've seen above in non-scoring categories but break the 30% barrier from long range?  That would be sooo sweet.

In fairness, he did shoot 63 times in 5 NBADL games and put up impressive 41% FG% and 32% 3pt% so if we can just start him against D-League opponents and give him big minutes and a green light to shoot, we are looking at a breakout star.  I've dreamed about 32% from my SG for a long time.   To think that it could become a reality merely by taking shots and minutes away from guys who shoot much better, rebound much better, steal much better, etc.  that sounds like a winning plan to me.

 

[Guest]

Are those just his 3pt % or overall?

[macdaddy]

14 hours ago, AHF said:

So in 5 games with 20-29 minutes he has shot 28% from 3pt range.  

In 18 games with 10-19 minutes he has shot 23%.

In 4 games with 1-9 minutes he has shot 20%.

 

One of those things is not like the other in terms of sample size but I'll give you that it shows a positive correlation.  Likely one that means in games where he looks good Bud gives him more leash and in games where he looks bad, Bud limits the damage.  

 

Do you think if we give him 30+ minutes per game he can deliver all the team lows (rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, etc.) we've seen above in non-scoring categories but break the 30% barrier from long range?  That would be sooo sweet.

In fairness, he did shoot 63 times in 5 NBADL games and put up impressive 41% FG% and 32% 3pt% so if we can just start him against D-League opponents and give him big minutes and a green light to shoot, we are looking at a breakout star.  I've dreamed about 32% from my SG for a long time.   To think that it could become a reality merely by taking shots and minutes away from guys who shoot much better, rebound much better, steal much better, etc.  that sounds like a winning plan to me.

 

I didn't see you address the fact that outside of 3 point %, his stats or equal to or better than Korver's.   Particularly in getting to the line and not turning the ball over.     Don't you think that warrants more equal playing time?     It's not like Korver is ballin'

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I didn't see you address the fact that outside of 3 point %, his stats or equal to or better than Korver's.   Particularly in getting to the line and not turning the ball over.     Don't you think that warrants more equal playing time?     It's not like Korver is ballin'

It's useless to discuss this topic with him.  His mind is made up.  It's like THJr took the last chocolate chip cookie at the Golden Corral or something.  @AHF had his heart set on it apparently.  Had to settle for an oatmeal raisin instead.  yuck

[AHF]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Are those just his 3pt % or overall?

Dear god, if they were his overall % we'd need to immediately cut him.  Just his 3pt%.

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I didn't see you address the fact that outside of 3 point %, his stats or equal to or better than Korver's.   Particularly in getting to the line and not turning the ball over.     Don't you think that warrants more equal playing time?     It's not like Korver is ballin'

Here is where I see them:

Scoring = Korver

Korver 11.1 pp36 (on 9.4 FGA)  > THJr 10.5 pp36 (on 9.9 FGA)

Korver .569% TS% >>> THJr .489% TS%   [THIS ADDRESSES GETTING TO THE LINE IN EVALUATING SCORING EFFICIENCY]

Note:  This does not account for the need to guard Korver closely on the perimeter which creates space for others and the complete lack of any need to guard Josh Smith, I mean THJr from deep.

 

Non-Scoring Categories

Korver Assists per 36, Blocks per 36, Steals per 36, Rebounds per 36 > THJr in every category

 

"Advanced" Metrics

Korver PER & WS/48 & DWS/48 & OWS/48 & VORP & BPM > THJr in every category

 

Avoiding Turnovers

THJr TO per 36 > Korver TO per 36

 

 

What about this warrants equal playing time?  

29 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's useless to discuss this topic with him.  His mind is made up.  It's like THJr took the last chocolate chip cookie at the Golden Corral or something.  @AHF had his heart set on it apparently.  Had to settle for an oatmeal raisin instead.  yuck

Look at the actual data and tell me I am the one who is having trouble acknowledging reality.  BTW - I love oatmeal raisin cookies!

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Here is where I see them:

Blah, blah, blah ....

What about this warrants equal playing time?  

Look at the actual data and tell me I am the one who is having trouble acknowledging reality.  BTW - I love oatmeal raisin cookies!

THJr needs to be playing.  I don't care what nimbers you toss together.  Why don't you busy yourself with putting together an argument that Oubre is better than them both?

And it makes total sense that you love oatmeal raisin cookies.

[AHF]

12 minutes ago, kg01 said:

THJr needs to be playing.  I don't care what nimbers you toss together.  Why don't you busy yourself with putting together an argument that Oubre is better than them both?

And it makes total sense that you love oatmeal raisin cookies.

Glad we see which of us has their head in the sand.

 

"I don't care what he is actually doing on the floor....he just deserves more time because he does.  He just does.  We gave up a #15 pick for him so we owe him the time."

 

 

 

On a more serious note, I have no problem with the notion that we should give him some more minutes and give Kyle some more rest.  Let's just be honest with ourselves about the fact that there is nothing we have seen from THJr that supports that he deserves the time based on his actual performance.  He hasn't earned the time - we are just desperate in terms of our wing depth.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

Glad we see which of us has their head in the sand.

 

"I don't care what he is actually doing on the floor....he just deserves more time because he does.  He just does.  We gave up a #15 pick for him so we owe him the time."

On a more serious note, I have no problem with the notion that we should give him some more minutes and give Kyle some more rest.  Let's just be honest with ourselves about the fact that there is nothing we have seen from THJr that supports that he deserves the time based on his actual performance.  He hasn't earned the time - we are just desperate in terms of our wing depth.

Sigh, why did I even respond to him?  I blame myself really.

[AHF]

46 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Sigh, why did I even respond to him?  I blame myself really.

I gave you a ton of info and you literally "blah, blah, blah"ed it.  Above it said that Hardaway was putting up better number than Korver except on his 3pt shooting but I showed that was clearly not the case.  My post was almost entirely data driven and devoid of opinion.  But the response?  "Oh that AHF, he can't let go of the Hardaway trade."

You can do better.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

I gave you a ton of info and you literally "blah, blah, blah"ed it.  Above it said that Hardaway was putting up better number than Korver except on his 3pt shooting but I showed that was clearly not the case.  My post was almost entirely data driven and devoid of opinion.  But the response?  "Oh that AHF, he can't let go of the Hardaway trade."

You can do better.

Eh, only when I choose to put thought into a post (which is rare).  I want THJr playing and I don't care what the nimbers say (right now).  I think they're flawed due to the sporadic play time.  Yes, I realize you can 'adjust' them to force a supposed apples-to-apples comparison but, long story long, I hate the per36/per18/perWhatever numbers.  I don't think stats can be extrapolated that way.  Too many assumptions IMHO.

So, yes, I see and understand your info but they don't sway my opinion.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Eh, only when I choose to put thought into a post (which is rare).  I want THJr playing and I don't care what the nimbers say (right now).  I think they're flawed due to the sporadic play time.  Yes, I realize you can 'adjust' them to force a supposed apples-to-apples comparison but, long story long, I hate the per36/per18/perWhatever numbers.  I don't think stats can be extrapolated that way.  Too many assumptions IMHO.

So, yes, I see and understand your info but they don't sway my opinion.

The whole per 36 annoys me too.  Hell even our starters hardly plays 36 minutes average.