BornandDieHawks

If we remember Woody was one of the top candidates for a head coaching job. BK's relationship with him may have been the one thing to luring him here. We didn't have a roster which most coaches may dream of taken over. Everyone's advice to the season and the players are to be patient. We need to do the same with Woody. He had nothing last year and has a big turnover with this year's roster. We can see him trying to find some common ground with all of the line-up changes. Once we get the right personnel in place, then we will see if he is the right coach for this team.

agreed...Smooth, one year out of high school, has done more to improve his game than the rest of the team.

You should read all of the posts presented. I never change my stance on anything. I stated saying I jump for joy when the trade went through and Belkin lost his position. I then added we have a good player with a MAX contract, playing out of position and not leading the team. All I feel is true..He is a good player, He does have a MAX contract (FACT), I feel he is playing out of position and I don't feel is has been a leader on the team. Not that I think he is going to score 35 ppg and dis out 12 assists and leads us to victory. I mean on the floor he is not taking control of the game. When the Hawks do start to get erratic on the floor, he's not slowing things down and getting the team back on pace. I am closer to this trade that you would ever know. and NO I do not consider JJ a failure but at the same time he is not a pg and NBA is not the place to develop a player into that position. You can do it with the other position but not the point. As for what we gave up for him. Our trade package had less to do with his talent than the fact we needed to lure a top FA to Atlanta. Before you start telling me what I meant or whatever. There is no doubt JJ would greatly enhance our team. That's why we made him an offer which he was going to accept. BK knew Phoenix could match and keep him, but after clearing away so much CAP room and the disapponted previous years where we could get a FA regardless of the money being toss at them. We had to up the ante. Did I support it then..YES...do I support it NOW...YES. As for Diaw, he is just like any other ex-Hawk to me. The fact that he is playing better, what I believe is from a position change and nothing else, has nothing to do with not wanting JJ. But I am not going to hate on him and still give him props for doing what he is doing. Now I will call it like I see it. I know it's early and all the posts being written in this forum you can say it's too early to comment. As of today, the trade favors Phoenix. Once again brother, look up nine lines. In time I think it will turn our way. Before I do get off on that soapbox, I will admit I should have preview my post and did some editing before posting. It's cool because it started a dialogue of different opinions. Let me make it clear before I comment on another post and I am accused of changing my attitude or position. I supports the JJ trade then and now.

I don't question a players talent became like you said they all have talent. What I mean is the talent is there but I do question the basket IQ which would come with experience. I listen to a Diaw interview with a grain of salt because you know he going to say the right things. He was going through the difference of being on a team winning oppose to a losing one. He did not bad mouth the Hawks, but he did point out some things such as the mentality, players worrying about Stats, and how plays that are developed in Phoenix are actually excuted. I did not pay much attention to it until AL stated some of same things. So I beleive it has more to do with the experience rather than talent.

I agree we would have several more wins but I do not think we would have went after Salim. I can not see a GM who talks so much about height pick Paul and Salim in the same draft.

Where is all this failed experiment stuff coming from? No one said JJ was a failure on the team at least not in my post. If that what you got out the post please ask for clarification. JJ move to pg on the team is an on-going experiment to see if he can handle the position full time. BK and Woody has said that's the position they would like him to play but they have to evaluate and see if another rotation would best suit the team. Everyone knows he has talent and can play the 2 or 3. That's why we went out along with other teams to try and get him. I understand why BK and Woody wanted him to play the point. Along with his size at the position, he did spell Nash at times in Phoenix. In no post do you see where I suggest we trade this guy. I am a big JJ supporter. I just made an evaluation in which I feel he is out of position. I would love for JJ to prove me and a lot of other people wrong and become an outstanding pg.

That's the biggest problem we have on the team. No defense and we trade one of the only real defenders on the team. We want a complete team not a bunch of offensive minded players.

Larry Hughes nor Michael Redd was not given the team as JJ. Hughes went in to compliment James. Redd was not brought in he was already in the mix and knew his place in their system. Now before I go on, I am not anti-JJ. I am glad we have him too, I admit I would like to see him a lot more at sg which I think the Woody is coming around too. Diaw is the same player. To be honest,I do not see much improvement in his game. The difference is Phoenix move him down instead of trying to be the 6-9 guard. With his ball handling, most forwards can not guard him. He still won't take a lot of shoots, but he can find the open man because of he create alot of problems for the bigger, slower men down low. As for what we gave up for JJ. I know we gave up alot, but BK had to do something to get him here. We do not have underdevelop talent..we do have inexperience players. We probably have one of the most talented team in the NBA, but I don't know about basketball IQ. That will come with experience.

BK is building a team of long, athletic player who create match-up problems. With no particular person in mind, it's a team concept. We know JJ and Marvin will be here because of the trade and the high draft pick.

The experiment is not having JJ on the team, it's him being the main pg for the team. We all know he is a good player but the argument is if he go back to his natural position would he be a great player. Houston did not sign McGrady and say since you handle the ball sometimes you are now our pg. (quote)TMac is simply TMac. In the same way, JJ is simply JJ... It is how the team and a player fits that makes all the difference. Rarely, there is that player/coach that can take any given group of scrubs and make them something much more signficant. Ala Jordan or Shaq... (quote) I watch every game and did not know we had JJ and a bunch of scrubs on the team..

First, don't get it twisted because I started the post with Belkin gloating. When Green Bay beat the Falcons a few weeks ago, GB fans had their time to gloat, it was short term but it was their time. (1)Do you not think JJ is playing out of position? Is he a floor general yet? (2)Now with a changing of position, has Diaw played above our expectations? (3)Do you think we gave up too much for JJ? These are the three subtopics in that post. So I started out a post with Belkin gloating, yes I think it will be short term, but hey... No, believe me, I am not like the sports radio and do not think JJ is suppose to come (in your words)to a team with hardly any develop talent, and lead them to something. First of all, do we have that much under develop talent on the team? I admit we are young and maybe inexperience, but we have won two games and with a little luck flowing our way we could have at least four more wins. Would a true PG made the difference? who knows.... (quote)You, like some of the sports radio people, have expectations that show a surpreme lack of understanding as to what it takes to succeed in the NBA. (quote) What does it takes? Not only do I need to know, but several NBA teams need to know as well. I am a big supporter of JJ and glad the deal was done. I don't look at him as the Hawks savior like some do. I understand the load he has on him, but at the same time we did not pay a guy the MAX to come here so we can develop him. He has to step up and become the leader of this team. The losses are going to come, don't mean I have to like them, but you can lose going down fighting with some direction. So the post was about Belkin gloating, it will be short term, but hey......it's his time.

Belkin screaming, "I told you so." I like the rest of you jump for joy when Belkin lost his place with the organization and the trade went through. Right now we have a good player, with a MAX contract, playing out of position, not leading the team as expected. We trading away a guy who is producing and the only difference is he playing another position. Rebuilding took a hit because we gave up two number 1's and limited ourselves to get a veteran in because of the trade exemption we gave up. Nevermind, I'm still pissed about the game last night.

You're right....I do not think there are any untouchables but Marvin. I say that becasue I do not see BK nor the organization trade such a high pick and admit they were wrong for picking him over Paul. JJ would not go because of the craziness of his trade and they will really be the laughing stock. Everyone else is fair game....

As much as I would like to see Bosh in a Hawks uniform, I would still be against trading our 1 round #2 pick one month into the season.

I feel your frustration. Before the season started the whole organization had conceded this year and started the brainwashing the fans to expect a losing year. I can't wait to see what our next major move will be. If we trade one of the people who we supoose to be building on for someone else who we are going to build on. I know the team do not have a clue and we will be in the doghouse for a long time until we do get lucky and get a stud player. Also I am worried that JJ will soon begin to take a lot of heat from the media for his contract and role on the team and I don't think he would be able to handle the pressure. He wants the superstar benefits but won't be able to handle the things that comess along with being "The Man."

I am not suggesting we go after Thomas..as a matter of fact I would want him our team period, but the point was some teams will be looking to unload some players after Dec 15 who did not work out for their team

I hope we didn't give him that much.....Are we that desperate?

Looks like you are working your way the chain shooting things....Should the public be concerned?....

Quote: Hawks do not have any veterans that they want to move and this is what contending teams want - That player or players to get them over the hump and into the playoffs. With only JJ & Al, neither of which we can afford to loose, that leaves Tyrone Lue and Tony Delk. Delk is not playing and Lue won't demand a high return. All the others ? If they're THAT good, Hawks need to keep them and if they're not, who else would want them at the price we would have to ask? Grow your own. That's what Hawks are doing. We continue to add pieces. Our additions since last season have been good so far. All are young and in need of a lot of playing time and work to become very, very good. With a few breaks, which a young, inexperienced team rarely gets, we could have had three more wins. As we grow together, these losses will become victories. We've been SO CLOSE and lost. Minor deal? Probably. Major deal. Nope. Not likely. There is one thing the Hawks have that a lot of other teams don't and that's Cap space. Some teams may be looking to unload players who did not work out. I am not avocating we go after these guys but like Chicago is ready to get rid of Tim Thomas after one month into the season.

All of our young guys have trade value but I doubt BK would consider it. BK has done a lot to keep our team very young with the intent of all of them growing together, so our draft from last year and this is a safe bet to remain. Delk may have some value but we need to get him on the floor and see if he can help us first. By the way, do anyone know how long Delk is suppose to be out?

I am guessing Dec 15 the trade winds will pick up. Let examine who we have to consider for a trade. This is what I see BK working with initally. Right now I have taken Smooth, Chillz, Marvin, ZaZa, and Salim off the list because I would think BK do not want to break up our young nucleous unless someone knocks his hat off. JJ - Contract will be hard to move, plus the organization would never admit Belkin might have been right. In addition, we need to keep him because with the right personnel he is a closet superstar waiting to come out. Lue - The Lakers wanted him this summer and they still may be in the market. I can't see us getting much in return so he will probably stay. AL - Our biggest scoring threat and one of the leaders on the team, but he has an expiring contract and can get us something with value in return. Delk - We need to get him back on the floor to estimate his value to other teams. Ivery and Smith - No real trade value but can be a throw in with another trade. None of our big men have any value. What do you think?

If I was in NJ shoes and wanted to trade Kidd I would go after Al. Looking over the roster, the most pressing need is in the power forward position. Getting Marvin would not help them now and set them back a few years. The team is not built to take on a project right now so I would have to get someone who can help us win now. They need help in the low post which they missed since KMart left. I agree Kidd is still considered a superstar. My biggest problem with a trade for Marvin is Kidd is under contract for only two more years. With JJ contract, and what it would take to re-sign our FA in a few years, Kidd would go elsewhere. We will be giving up someone who might be the face of our organization for years to come in Marvin.

I know by reading some of your post that Marvin is not one of your favorite players...he seems to be in all of your trade proposals. I would love to have Kidd but after 12 games I do not want to give up on our 19 yr old with one year of college ball behind him. He may be all hype; but if not, we will have given him up for an aging pg with bad knees and only two years in Atlanta. No deal

Leave Knight in Charlotte or let him go somewhere else and maybe we can get something from the Lakers for Lue...Since they wanted him so bad in the offseason....

I do not think Knight will work here because of his size. He would limit us playing Salim because they could never be in the game together. Andre Miller is a big enough guard who would give more options on rotation.