D.R.P.

Actually Vick wasn't even flippin the finger to a Falcon fan, it's been reported that it was a Saint's fan that was giving Rodney White a hard time; he was actually defending a teammate but of course you would never read that in the AJC. It does not excuse him from flipping off the fan, but it wasn't a Falcon fan. Also during bottlegate it was never reported by the AJC that Vick had over 100,000 dollars worth of jewelry stolen at an airport before; it took former Falcon beat writer and current ESPN scribe Len Pasquarelli to report that bit of information. Then when Vick described what happened, the AJC reported that the investigators had never heard of Vick using the bottle to hide his jewelry. Well of course they never heard about Vick using the bottle to hide jewelry because THEY NEVER QUESTIONED HIM. It's ashame that people can't see when the media is not giving them the whole truth; I'm so glad I had a course on how the media works during college, because I can see how the media manipulates things from time to time and only reports certain details of a story.

Quote: Drp, you are a thug. You respond to my points with hate. Nothing meaningful has come out of your posts yet. Nobody, including myself, who thinks Vick is guilty has said he doesn't deserve his due process. You cuss and call me names like a child who needs a spanking. You are just like Vick. That's why you defend him. You're full of hate and you have a racial chip on your shoulder. Wouldn't surprise me if you're a member of the black panthers. So have fun calling me names and hating everyone who you can't hold an intellectual discussion with. It's all you've got and I pity you. Wow, me a thug I've never heard that one before; that's quite humorous. I apologize, I didn't know it would be so easy to hurt your feeling; have you ever heard the phrase "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". I've got to print your post out and show it to many of my white friends they would find it to be quite hilarious. The same friends I've gone out to eat with, been invited or have been to their houses. Why are you bringing up race in regards to the Vick case; it has nothing I mean absolutely nothing to do with race. That shows your true feelings of hate towards him is due to his race. Your the type of person who would not help a person who does not speak clean English if they asked you for directions. You would turn up your nose at that person because they are different, while I on the other hand would try my best and patiently help that person. It's ashame that you hate people just because of their differences; while I embrace people differences. Please look up the true definition of the word thug, "just because you may have heard a Tupac song or two in your life doesn't mean you know the definition of the word thug; it's amazing how often that word is used out of context when racism is involved. If I was a thug would I really have been on a jury not once but twice? Would I have recently been invited to become a member of the the county's sheriff association if I was a thug; I don't think so. I am an extremely high character person otherwise I would not have the job that I have; I deal with highly confidential information everyday; how about yourself. Let me just say your most likely paying a little bit of my salary. I don't drink or smoke and I've never done an illegal drug a day in my life. Please get out of your own little world, where your only around people who are just like you, get out and mingle with different people of race, color and ethnic groups; their is a good chance you would learn something new. It's people like you who give this country such a bad reputation because you don't care to learn about different cultures of people, because your afraid of what you don't know. Maybe I need to send you on a trip somewhere to experience some new things.

I wouldn't give up Salty in a deal unless it was for a highly capable starting pitcher like a Dontrell Willis. I think Juilio Franco is a great guy and all to have on the team, but he shouldn't be starting over Salty; it looks like old age has finally caught up with Julio.

Quote: Quote: Either he is guilty as hell or he is stupid as hell. Exactly. And the "guilty until proven innocent" standard only applies in regards to getting convicted. That standard doesn't apply in regards to having an opinion on the case. There is no problem with you having an opinion that he's guilty; its the people who act like Vick has aleardy been convicted that makes no sense. The "Mouth from Philli", Steven A. Smith, summed it up best when he said, "It's okay for people to have an opinion that Vick is guilty; it's the people that want to convict him after only hearing one side that dosen't make sense. If Vick is guilty they will get him, what's the rush to convict him before trial".

Quote: And out come the Vick apologists. I guess Vick could rape your mother, punch your kids and slap you in the face and you would still say he's innocent until proven guilty. Hell, you probably believe George Bush set him up, just like he planted explosives in the trade towers. I got some bad news for you sunshine, Vick's only innocent in the eye's of government. In the world of common sense where most of us reside, he appears guilty as sin. So keep defending him and others like him despite their numerous embarrasing episodes because he's black. That's all you are doing. If he were white, you'd be calling for his head. May the fine art of race-pimping carry on. You sound just like a stupid racist idiot. There are plenty of white people who are willing to let do process take place. You probably believe that we invaded Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction. I just knew it would only be a matter of time before your dumb ass would post some stupidity here ( I'm sure your boy is on his way with a bs post right after you). Write something that makes logical sense or don't post at all! If Vick's guilty the feds will prove it in court where they have to (some reason you can't understand that). Your to stupid to understand how the court system works, all you do is read (I think you can do that) articles and watch stuff on tv and let the media tell you whats true or not; you have no ability to break things down your own self.

Quote: If he had never been on the property himself, that would be naive. Since he has been there and undoubtedly seen the property and the dogs 1st hand, that is guilty and/or stupid. Vick never said that he's never been on the property, he said he's hardly ever been at the property. Also a neighbor said that he's rarely seen Vick at the house, the neighbor said that at the most Vick has been at the house for a total of two weeks. Quote: Just wondering if you using this sentence, "loyal to people who don't do the right thing.", means the right thing would be for them to take the fall for Vick? How could his cousin take the fall when he's more involved (presuming guilt) than Vick, remember the cousin actually lived at the house unlike Vick. If Vick is guilty than his cousin is surely guilty. I'm outraged that his cousin has not been charged with anything. Why aren't you outraged that his cousin has not been charged with anything? Why isn't PETA outraged that his cousin has not been charged with anything? It seems PETA and others only care about publicly convicting Vick prematurely, because it brings more negative attention to the situation.

Also the feds will have to prove he visited the property on exact dates in court. The part of the indictment that says Vick rode in a car to SC to attend a dog will really have to be proved undoubtedly by the feds; seeing as though this would of had to take place during the season. There is not that much time during the season for a player to hope in a car and ride to SC and attend a dog fight late a night. I will have to check and see if the falcons had a bye week late that December, otherwise I only could see early Monday as the only time that could have taken place. It would have had to taken place after a game; the players have meetings and they watch the previous game on tape early Tuesday. After Tuesday there is practice on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, then travel on Saturday.

Quote: Either he is guilty as hell or he is stupid as hell. I'll almost give you that, but I would say he's either guilty or extremely stupidly naively loyal to people who don't do the right thing. Now that was a logical response!

Quote: I read the indictment and it doesn't look good. All the killing of dogs aside, they seem to be pretty specific about the activities of Vick and his boys. The indictment doesn't look good for a reason; whether Vick is guilty or not the indictment was meant to put Vick in the worst possible light. Having read over numerous criminal legal documents (oh the joy) at work, the indictment had the least amount of what I call "lawyer terms" I've ever seen on a legal document, you know the terms and phrases that usually are not understood by your average Joe's. This was done for a reason; so that the average Joe's could fully read and understand the indictment and prematurely convict Vick. The Feds are obviously trying to put as much pressure on Vick as possible, to try and make him reach a plea agreement whether he's guilty or not; its what law enforcement (especially the feds) will do as a scare tactic. I don't see Vick admitting guilt anytime soon though (as he shouldn't if he's innocent), not with the lawyer he just hired. I've discussed this at work with the lawyers on staff (reluctantly they asked me what I thought, I didn't want to bring it up) and they all agreed along with me that the smart thing to do is to wait until due process has taken place before convicting Vick.

It amazing to me how this board has people as dumb as yourself on here. How many injured dogs did they find? They only found two injured does and one was because of a birth affect. Quote: He owned the property and the damn dogs are on his property. I guess there is snow balls chance in hell he had no idea what was going on. But I would bet a months pay he is guilty as charged. No doubt he gets due process; but he, just like you and me, has no guarantee of a job in this country. So your saying if you were the landlord of a property that you rented you would know about everything that goes on at that property even if it's out of state? I'm not saying that Vick is not guilty, but I strongly suspect he's not guilty of all thats in the indictment. For the right price I bet people would say they saw you doing something you were not doing, to save their hide. Stop and think clearly (if you can) before you reply so stupidly. At the very least reply with some logical sense attached to what you say. Why don't you answer the questions that I had in the first post above?

Quote: Hell, Nike has already dumped his stupid ass. Yeah Nike has dumped Vick like Nike dumped Kobe. All Nike did was not release Vick's shoe and push stuff off the website just like they did with Kobe. Unlike some companies and people Nike has the sense to let due process take place.

Yeah its pretty stupid to automatically act like its a fact that Vick's guilty. An indictment does not prove guilt only suspicion of guilt. Plus if people read the indictment clearly they will see that its hearsay from witness who have been involved in dog fighting mostly themselves. Also why don't the feds have exact dates; to me that will be the sticking point, the feds will have to prove that Vick was were they say he was at certain exact dates not phrases like "in and around early April or in and around late December", the feds should have no problem coming up with exact dates if they have proof outside of hearsay. A good defense lawyer (like the one Vick has hired) will eat that hearsay up in court; Ive seen it as a juror on a human murder trial last year. The trial I was a juror on was strangely similar to this situation, due to the fact that the witnesses against the defendant were trying to pin everything on the defendant to save their on hide. Just listening to the prosecutor's opening argument made me want to convict the guy before we even heard the defense opening statement, then the defense attorney blew what the prosecutor had to say out of the water (then I knew we had a real trial on our hands and I could feel myself and the other jurors tense up; the real thing is nothing like something you see on Law and Order.) The defendant was found not guilty of murder. The bottom line is if you only hear one side it's really premature to convict someone based on hearsay. I have some questions for those who feel that the indictment proves Vick is guilty, where is Vick's cousin on the indictment, why has he not been charged with anything ,why aren't people outraged over his cousin not being charged with anything? In closing, if Vick's guilty the feds will prove it in court, why convict the guy when you have only heard one side, people just don't learn from previous incidents. "Does the Duke Lacrosse case not ring a bell"?

Apparently your a little slow (well maybe more than a little) and can't read properly; Scott Williams, Barkley, Lue,and Dominique weren't even in the conversation, your the one who brought up: Karl Malone = 18.7 ppg (Louisanna Tech) Elton Brand = 17.7 ppg (Duke) Carlos Boozer = 18.2 ppg ( Duke) Horford = 13.4 ppg One player's PPG doesn't translate into winning championships; Teams win Championships. Quote: Robert Horry = 5 Championship rings with 3 different teams. Karl Malone = NO Championship rings.. Horry was never the top player on any of the Championship teams, your wannabe point is pointless as always. I almost feel sorry for you because it's obvious somebody dropped you on your head as a little kid, and you had to ride to school on the short bus.

Quote: I believe Craig was in NO when Chris Paul arrived. that turned out ok. I'm not saying Craig helped him, I'm saying he didn't hurt him. Actually Chris Paul credits Byron Scott and Speedy oops Craig as the two people who helped him adjust to the NBA the most.

Quote: Seems to me that Horford's #1 defender is ducking these questions, so let's open it up to the Horford fan club... 1. Explain 13 ppg. Horford to be this great Scorer never showed it in college. Even against Noncompetitive teams like UGA, Horford would come in with 6 pts. In my survey asking for the purpose of Horford, Many of you said he was drafted to be a "Post offensive player". In other threads you said he would be like Karl Malone, Elton Brand, or Carlos Boozer... Karl Malone = 18.7 ppg (Louisanna Tech) Elton Brand = 17.7 ppg (Duke) Carlos Boozer = 18.2 ppg ( Duke) Horford = 13.4 ppg Diesel which one of those guys was on a TEAM that won back to back National Chapionships? Your logic is so twisted; it's like saying that Dirk Nowitzki is a better player than Tim Duncan because Dirk averaged 24 PPG compared to Duncan's 20 PPG.

I believe in Horford as a power forward, as a center I'm going to take a wait and see approach. In fact I posted on here weeks before the draft that Horford was the 3rd BPA in the draft, while Chad Ford had Toni Kukoc 2.0 (without Kukoc's passing skills) as his 3rd BPA in the draft, then Ford changed that a week later to Horford. As a 4 he's a future all-star. For those who think Horford is a Sheldon Williams clone I have one thing to say, in words of Rick James "crack-cocaine" is one hell of a drug".

Hawks prevent assistants from leaving for other jobs Drew, Fizdale can't leave; must honor final year of contract with team By SEKOU SMITH The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published on: 07/10/07 Two Hawks assistant coaches will not be allowed to leave for positions with other NBA teams even after they received permission to speak to those organizations, Hawks general manager Billy Knight confirmed Tuesday. Larry Drew and David Fizdale are being required to honor the final year of their contract by the Hawks. "That's our position," Knight said. "We're going to require employees under contract to honor those contracts. Obviously, if an assistant got a chance to be a head coach somewhere else that's a different story. But for another [assistant coaching] position, we're not going to allow them that latitude." Knight declined to elaborate why Drew and Fizdale were given permission to interview for assistant coaching positions with other teams. "This is going to be our position going forward into the future and this is the way we?re going to handle it," Knight said. "I know in most cases around the NBA this is not the normal practice. But this is how we're going to handle it." Drew accepted a position to become the Sacramento Kings lead assistant under new coach Reggie Theus, the same position he holds with the Hawks under Mike Woodson. He was later told that he would not be allowed out of the final year of his contract. Fizdale, who has also been with the Hawks the past three years, was offered an assistant coaching position with the Cleveland Cavaliers but will not be allowed to pursue that opportunity. Both coaches declined interview requests from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Tuesday. A move to Sacramento would have allowed Drew, whose family resides in Los Angeles, to move closer to his wife and three sons. His oldest son, Larry Drew Jr., is one of the nation's top-rated high school point guards and has already committed to North Carolina. The move would have allowed Drew to be close as his son played his senior year. Knight said he's also not worried about Drew and Fizdale coming back to the Hawks angry over not being allowed to pursue other opportunities that would have given each man job security beyond the end of the 2007-08 season, which they don't have with the Hawks.

Quote: I just read where somebody said "reporters were not allowed at the workouts"... Yet, moments after the workout, Sekou reports to Conley's bad shooting. So did the guy at Yahoo. One thing I know is that a reporter has his sources. I guess the guy's sources told him that Noah was there also, and that Horford and Conley worked out the same time, because thats what the guy implies in his article. It's obvious the guy just read Sekou's blog and wrote his own litte story off of that. Also its funny how you won't mention that Woody said "that Conley stood out as the most complete prospect in terms of a "true" point guard", and "He's a leader," and that "He's a quality guy from a great background and he's one at every level". It appears you read only what you want to read and not the whole thing.

Last I checked Noah wasn’t at the workout yesterday, and Horford and Conley worked out at different times. This article is just speculation at best, it obvious the writer wasn’t there, also the media isn’t allowed in the workouts from what I remember.

Quote: Quote: I think Speedy and Lue are insurance, more than the point guard we draft. If Conley's or Law is the point guard we draft no doubt that both would start. I think at least 30MPG for either one. We can't count on Speedy (um I mean Craig) for probably more than half the season. Not with Woodson coaching. He rarely give rookies any minutes over veterans. He didn't give j.Smith, Marvin or Shelden any PT to play with in the rookie season no matter how they play. Josh Smith averaged 27.7MPG, and Childress averaged 29.7MPG their rookie years and that was with Diaw and Harrington on the roster. Also a point guard would be relied on more than any of those guys were their rookie seasons. I fully expect Speedy to miss half the season, his track record isn't good on the injury front.

Quote: I'm trying to figure out why there is so much support for taking Conley at 3 over getting a big that will help us more. I'm also trying to figure out where this needed big man is going to be coming from if the Conley fans get their desire and the Hawks take him with the 3rd pick. If the Hawks take Conley, I will agree that they will be better in the open court and on defense on the perimter, but the team won't improve any as a perimeter shooting team nor will they improve any defensively in the post. The support for Conley is because he's the best player for this TEAM that will be available at #3. There is no big (um center) that's worthy of the 3rd pick. Horford is a PF it's plain and simple, he's not Amare Stoudemire. Stoudemire came out of high school physically fit to play in the NBA, also last I checked the Hawks don't have a player by the name of Nash on their roster. Let me ask you this why did the Suns trade Q Richardson for Kurt Thomas ?. It was to move Amare back to his natural 4 spot more often.

I think Speedy and Lue are insurance, more than the point guard we draft. If Conley's or Law is the point guard we draft no doubt that both would start. I think at least 30MPG for either one. We can't count on Speedy (um I mean Craig) for probably more than half the season.

Quote: Horford won't be starting either. I don't doubt that, but Horford has a lot better chance of starting than Yi. My pick at #3 has been Conley since we got the pick, just look at the picture to the left.

Quote: Quote: Jersey sells are split among the teams in league. The hawks would only get something like 1/8 per jersey sold in China. It would be hard for Yi to sell a lot of jerseys in the U.S. while coming off the bench for the hawks. But they get 100% of their sales in the clubhouse store. Now who do you think would be the hippest jersey around town, Horford or Yi. I'm going to go with Horford. People have actually seen Horford play in the U.S. not to mention the Final Four was in Atlanta last year, and the SEC Tournament is in Atlanta every year. And even though I hate to admit this there are plenty of gator fans in Atlanta. So yeah I could see Horford selling more jerseys in Atlanta then what Yi initially would. It would be hard for Yi to sell a lot of jersey's in Atlanta while coming off the bench.

Quote: The guy is a 69% FT shooter... More telling of what he can really do. Layups because Oden has cleared out the lane will really help your FG%... Unfortunately, we don't have an Oden. All we have for Conley is a recipe for injury. And Law is a mediocre defender at best, and a so-so distributor. Also Yi has no more post skills than Josh Smith. Last I heard Smith is working out with Hakeem Olajuwon on post moves and Yi is... It's time for you to face the facts that one; Yi would be a bad fit as a Hawk, and that Conley is the best pure POINT GUARD in draft.